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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 17, 2010 14:07:49 GMT -5
There are millions of auto workers in this country who would respectfully disagree. While a bunch of folks were making jokes about that endeavor, millions of jobs that would have left this country were saved, and wealthy, patrician financiers will get a chance to make some money off it when GM goes public.
I guess where I remain honestly baffled is...where would the country be absent the actions Obama took with respect to the economy? Take TARP, the bailouts, and all the rest off the table. What is unemployment then? Furthermore, to what is our 9.6% unemployment attributable?
I guess a second set of questions is...if the answer is so crystal clear that the Tea types are right, why have the Europeans not figured it out?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 17, 2010 14:11:47 GMT -5
There are millions of auto workers in this country who would respectfully disagree. While a bunch of folks were making jokes about that endeavor, millions of jobs that would have left this country were saved, and wealthy, patrician financiers will get a chance to make some money off it when GM goes public. I guess where I remain honestly baffled is...where would the country be absent the actions Obama took with respect to the economy? Take TARP, the bailouts, and all the rest off the table. What is unemployment then? Furthermore, to what is our 9.6% unemployment attributable? I guess a second set of questions is...if the answer is so crystal clear that the Tea types are right, why have the Europeans not figured it out? Wasn't TARP enacted under the guy that caused all these problems, you know that Texan with the book?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 17, 2010 14:16:09 GMT -5
Yeah (although most believe Obama put it through) - and the country is better off for it. While I was no fan of Bush while he was in office, he looks distinguished compared to the folks we just elected. Bush has done well to stay out of the fray in retirement even though, strangely and crudely, he would be a great help to Hill Republicans on matters of policy.
I cannot say the same for his VP, who was making jokes about unemployment yesterday.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 17, 2010 14:19:10 GMT -5
Yeah (although most believe Obama put it through) - and the country is better off for it. While I was no fan of Bush while he was in office, he looks distinguished compared to the folks we just elected. Bush has done well to stay out of the fray in retirement even though, strangely and crudely, he would be a great help to Hill Republicans on matters of policy. One thing that can be said for both Bushes and President Clinton is that they have been dignified ex-Presidents when it comes to commenting upon their successors in office.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 17, 2010 14:23:11 GMT -5
Ambassador, is there anything the President does or says that you will not defend - with lengthy discourses?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 17, 2010 14:30:00 GMT -5
I am sorry to offend your sense of independence - your occasional support of Obama is well-documented. I have stated my opposition to certain policies clearly and need not reiterate those at length. One timely issue is that I think Obama has his tax cut policy wrong. All tax cuts should expire, including the nontaxation of estate income provisions. The tea trust funders should have to pay in to this country too.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Nov 17, 2010 14:30:31 GMT -5
There are millions of auto workers in this country who would respectfully disagree. While a bunch of folks were making jokes about that endeavor, millions of jobs that would have left this country were saved, and wealthy, patrician financiers will get a chance to make some money off it when GM goes public. I guess where I remain honestly baffled is...where would the country be absent the actions Obama took with respect to the economy? Take TARP, the bailouts, and all the rest off the table. What is unemployment then? Furthermore, to what is our 9.6% unemployment attributable? I guess a second set of questions is...if the answer is so crystal clear that the Tea types are right, why have the Europeans not figured it out? On your second point, Europe's getting there. www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/09/15/tea_parties_of_the_worldOne should also note that Europe is fundamentally different than the United States in terms of items like personal liberty and the role of the state. Anyway. Let's get down to business. Really? You're going to pull out the "you should kiss my feet that unemployment is 10%" thing that sank like a lead balloon? Fine. Let's rumba. 1. POTUS spent most of last year, when we weren't out of a recession, fighting for healthcare reform. Democrats and Republicans thought that he did a lousy job tactically. The result of that was a bill that was so flimsy that most states are well on their way to invalidating it. By wasting time on something that was not key to "alleviating the greatest economic crisis since the Great Depression", POTUS spent valuable political capital and West Wing smarts that could have been used to fix other things on something that didn't turn out particulary successfully. 2. POTUS' massive injection of cash into the economy didn't work; the majority of the income was unspent, and almost nothing was shovel-ready. 3. Neither POTUS nor the Congress or Senate was able to justify their actions to the American people, who handed the Republicans a 60-seat pickup in the House and seven seats in the Senate, the worst shellacking in eighty years. If you don't care about this, than I find that two explanations are possible: a) either the Democrats can't message effectively, or b) you find the American people to be idiots.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 17, 2010 14:50:19 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 17, 2010 15:49:32 GMT -5
Thank God Mr. Obama showed up to change the tone in D.C. His unique ability to rise above petty squabbles has certainly lifted the level of political discourse in this nation. Next up: Lower the Seas and heal the planet. Should be easy work for someone this magnificent.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 17, 2010 17:37:29 GMT -5
Thank God Mr. Obama showed up to change the tone in D.C. His unique ability to rise above petty squabbles has certainly lifted the level of political discourse in this nation. Next up: Lower the Seas and heal the planet. Should be easy work for someone this magnificent. "He promised a new era of civility, yet I'm still an ass. What a horrible president" I'm 60% certain Obama will be reelected, simply because he's the incumbent. If the unemployment rate drops in the next two year, that jumps to 80%. Political science, y'all.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 17, 2010 19:49:01 GMT -5
"He promised a new era of civility, yet I'm still an ass. What a horrible president" Good to see you coming around, Junior...
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 18, 2010 11:22:40 GMT -5
I'm 60% certain Obama will be reelected, simply because he's the incumbent. If the unemployment rate drops in the next two year, that jumps to 80%. Political science, y'all. This sounds like a bet. ;D Because I'm just about certain that if the election were held next year -- meaning the campaign starts now -- just about anyone could take Obama at this point (maybe not Palin, though I don't fault her for thinking she can beat him; you can't be a national politician without a Godzilla-sized ego). But the election is not next year, so the question is moot. (I get the car!) But I'm pretty sure I'll still be willing to make a bet when the time comes. Winner gets to claim the title of President of the Emily Haines Fan Club.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Nov 18, 2010 13:55:04 GMT -5
I'm 60% certain Obama will be reelected, simply because he's the incumbent. If the unemployment rate drops in the next two year, that jumps to 80%. Political science, y'all. This sounds like a bet. ;D Because I'm just about certain that if the election were held next year -- meaning the campaign starts now -- just about anyone could take Obama at this point (maybe not Palin, though I don't fault her for thinking she can beat him; you can't be a national politician without a Godzilla-sized ego). But the election is not next year, so the question is moot. (I get the car!) But I'm pretty sure I'll still be willing to make a bet when the time comes. Winner gets to claim the title of President of the Emily Haines Fan Club. Well, yeah, obviously things can and will change, and obviously I'm talking about general trends that tend to hold true (one term presidents are the exception, not the rule). I would hedge your optimism if the election were held right now, though, on the lack of a good GOP candidate. The field seems a little weak right now; any candidate mentioned right now is either milquetoast or polarizing. You're right, though, we'll see.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 18, 2010 18:25:07 GMT -5
For the record, the scheduling conflict today was that Boehner had to hold a press conference to squeal about extending all of the tax cuts.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Nov 18, 2010 19:04:28 GMT -5
Not increasing taxes is important.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 18, 2010 19:16:11 GMT -5
For the record, the scheduling conflict today was that Boehner had to hold a press conference to squeal about extending all of the tax cuts. You're right. That's the ONLY thing on his schedule for today.
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