TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 15, 2009 18:06:48 GMT -5
But why zero controversy for Fergie? She has performed songs that have said reprehensible things. She has made videos that are completely contrary to the image the NFL would like to have. Because she's a singer in a band that performs corporate hip-hop that, that outside of this argument, no one really finds terribly offensive or controversial. She's tremendously tacky, but not a lightning bolt of controversy. I find her / the Black Eyed Peas' songs offensive. I'm surprised that the all the people from the Concert Thread don't as well--you all seem to like good music |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 15, 2009 18:10:40 GMT -5
Because she's a singer in a band that performs corporate hip-hop that, that outside of this argument, no one really finds terribly offensive or controversial. She's tremendously tacky, but not a lightning bolt of controversy. I find her / the Black Eyed Peas' songs offensive. I'm surprised that the all the people from the Concert Thread don't as well--you all seem to like good music Nice!  Speaking of which, isn't Master P an owner of something? |
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Oct 15, 2009 21:12:51 GMT -5
I also dispute that there are very many clubs at all that wouldn't want Rush Limbaugh (or, again, at least his money) as a member. This is true, front office personnel generally find it tremendously easy to deal with opinionated owners who think they know more about football and talent evaluation. I mean, I hear the lines are out the door to work for Al Davis and Jerry Jones. With a salary cap and revenue-sharing in football (no team brings in less than the Lions at $208M according to Forbes, and #4 is at $256M), the money isn't really that much of an issue. If the next CBA doesn't include a salary cap, maybe money becomes an issue, but the Nationals and Blazers haven't exactly won anything lately, nor have the Bucs, the Braves, the Yankees... |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Oct 16, 2009 8:49:55 GMT -5
Rush is an importunate anathema to an entire race of people. While I defend his right to preach whatever he wants to the sycophants who listen to and believe his incendiary diatribe, and to his apologists who post here, his actions have consequences, one of which is that he is shunned as a pariah by the NFL. And rightfully so. Wilbon's take: tinyurl.com/yk7xt5a |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 16, 2009 8:56:51 GMT -5
I look forward to George Soros being expelled from the Checketts consortium as well.
Yup. Should happen aaaaannnnyyyy day now.....
As for Wilbon, well, I respect his opinion, but I fail to see how Rush Limbaugh saying that he hopes Obama fails is racially insensitive, simply because Obama is a black man. Does anyone really believe taht Rush wouldn't say the same thing if John Kerry were President?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Oct 16, 2009 9:28:27 GMT -5
Rush is an importunate anathema to an entire race of people. While I defend his right to preach whatever he wants to the sycophants who listen to and believe his incendiary diatribe, and to his apologists who post here, his actions have consequences, one of which is that he is shunned as a pariah by the NFL. And rightfully so. Wilbon's take: tinyurl.com/yk7xt5aRush is anathema to liberals, not African-Americans. His comments on McNabb dealt with the media (comments that Joe Biden clumsily echoed in his early praise of Obama) and not McNabb's ability or talent as it relates to his race. The NFL is pretty much free to say that this guy hurts business and torpedo his ownership bid. Really, I'm stunned that the proposal got this far - all the other owners aren't famous (every single Wikipedia article on them is as dull as dishwater). Even Al Davis has mellowed and got down to the business of destroying his franchise. Snyder, one of the most reviled owners in the league, is despised for screwing up the Redskins, not for anything he's said. |
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Oct 16, 2009 11:11:10 GMT -5
Rush is anathema to liberals, not African-Americans. /quote] CORRECTION: Rush is anathema to liberals and African Americans. And it appears his comments have come back to bite him in the butt. At least one of the usual suspects on this board is crying about “…liberals who love free speech right up until you say something they don’t like.” Well, as I recall conservatives didn't like what Natalie Maines said at a concert and directly attacked the livelihood of the Dixie Chicks. Radio stations refused to play their music and there were organized boycotts of their CDs and their concerts. Good ole W said this about the Dixie Chicks boycott: President Bush: I mean, the Dixie Chicks are free to speak their mind. They can say what they want to say. And just because -- they shouldn't have their feelings hurt just because some people don't want to buy their records when they speak out. You know, freedom is a two-way street….To paraphrase El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, looks like the chicks have come home to roost! |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Oct 16, 2009 11:20:21 GMT -5
Rush is anathema to liberals, not African-Americans. /quote] CORRECTION: Rush is anathema to liberals and African Americans. And it appears his comments have come back to bite him in the butt. At least one of the usual suspects on this board is crying about “…liberals who love free speech right up until you say something they don’t like.” Well, as I recall conservatives didn't like what Natalie Maines said at a concert and directly attacked the livelihood of the Dixie Chicks. Radio stations refused to play their music and there were organized boycotts of their CDs and their concerts. Good ole W said this about the Dixie Chicks boycott: President Bush: I mean, the Dixie Chicks are free to speak their mind. They can say what they want to say. And just because -- they shouldn't have their feelings hurt just because some people don't want to buy their records when they speak out. You know, freedom is a two-way street….To paraphrase El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, looks like the chicks have come home to roost! Which comments specifically about African Americans? Name two. As above, the NFL has the right to deny Rush the ability to buy a franchise. They also have the ability to get mocked mercilessly for giving a second chance to a guy who killed someone under DUI and someone else who spent time in prison for running a ring that tortured dogs, then get all sanctimonious when a bloivator wants to buy a team. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 16, 2009 12:32:25 GMT -5
While I am busy being wildly misconstrued, let me note that I am all for the NFL running its league any way it wants within the law. I simply find it funny that Limbaugh is shunned for his words while Vick,et al are welcomed back after vile deeds. Most precious is Al Sharpton weighing in after his antics in the Brawley case and his "white interlopers" comment about the store in Harlem.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Oct 16, 2009 13:13:43 GMT -5
I am still waiting for anyone to prove to me that Limbaugh is a racist or to provide full quotes (not ones taken out of context) that are racist. The famous "I want Obama to fail" is a good example of ignoring what he said before that. Wilbon's article is a prime example of impicitly calling Limbaugh a racist by saying something to the effect that he has a reputation for making racist comments but he can't cite any examples to back that up.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 16, 2009 13:29:23 GMT -5
The only one I've heard cited was the "take the bone out of your nose" comment, which was admittedly really nasty and indefensible. It was also back in the 1970s, and he apologized for it. Nearly 40 years ago and before he was a political figure of any kind.
If we're going to go back that far, can I call George Soros a Nazi sympathizer because of what he did when he was 14?
Come to think of it, has Al Sharpton ever apologized for anything? In his life?
The McNabb comment is an interesting one. Someone posted the entire Sunday Countdown conversation underneath Wilbon's column, and although Tom Jackson and Michael Irvin argued points of technical merit with Rush, neither was offended from a racial standpoint. Nor was Steve Young or Chris Berman (though, I grant you, Berman may have been eating a small suckling pig at the time and may not have heard the comment).
I am kind of wondering why Snopes continues to list -- among the "racist" comments attributed to Rush Limbaugh -- those several comments for which they can find no record or substantiation. Huh. You'd think they'd want to remove those. Guess not.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 16, 2009 13:42:40 GMT -5
I am kind of wondering why Snopes continues to list -- among the "racist" comments attributed to Rush Limbaugh -- those several comments for which they can find no record or substantiation. Huh. You'd think they'd want to remove those. Guess not. They're fact checking an e-mail. Are they supposed to take their article dispelling Richard Gere gerbil rumors down too because it's not true? The whole point of Snopes is to post questionable stories and then either source or dispell them. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Oct 16, 2009 14:04:40 GMT -5
I am kind of wondering why Snopes continues to list -- among the "racist" comments attributed to Rush Limbaugh -- those several comments for which they can find no record or substantiation. Huh. You'd think they'd want to remove those. Guess not. They're fact checking an e-mail. Are they supposed to take their article dispelling Richard Gere gerbil rumors down too because it's not true? The whole point of Snopes is to post questionable stories and then either source or dispell them. It's actually better that they keep it up to dispel the rumor. Great to forward to friends to prove that they've been had. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 16, 2009 14:05:39 GMT -5
Rev. Al made a valuable point on this issue, which is that Rush didn't get a job based on his words, while Republicans (and Hillary Clinton) wanted to deny Obama a job based on his minister's words.
That being said, a couple of points:
1. Rush is not entitled to this role.
2. I don't see the issue as one of Limbaugh a racist - yes or no. I have not kept up on the issue but it again comes down to one's definition of racism. I don't think anyone would credibly think Limbaugh is a Ku Klux Klan racist. If that is the only form of racism that is now worthy of criticism, no question the critics of the NFL win here. However, Limbaugh has a history of walking a fine line when there is simply no compelling social reason to do so other than to demonstrate "free country." How Limbaugh's comments are effective/necessary to a "free country" is another matter. I don't think anyone found his comments on McNabb necessary to national debate. I don't think anyone jumped on the segregated bus bandwagon. I don't think there was widespread support for his airing of Barack The Magic Negro. How that particular parody was necessary, I'll never know. What emerges from these and other episodes is not a single KKK moment but the picture of a person who does not exercise much discretion when it comes to expressing things that can easily be viewed as insensitive/racist when there is not much social purpose/value behind such expression. That Limbaugh could have not failed to realize that these comments would be viewed as insensitive is another matter.* If that is what is now defined as racism, I would argue that Rush meets that definition.
It should also be noted that Limbaugh has accused Barack Obama and Sonia Sotomayor of racism, without any similar outcry from the political right.
*In this respect, I think Limbaugh eclipses Don Imus, who I believe was railroaded. Imus meant no harm and should have been given a rebuke, no doubt, but been afforded an opportunity to come back.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 16, 2009 14:22:18 GMT -5
Ambassador and I will absolutely agree on one thing.
In no way, manner or form do I believe at all that Rush Limbaugh is entitled to be an NFL owner.
I know I both started and have posted a lot in this thread. To be honest, I can't remember all that I've said, but if I have given the impression that I do believe that, I apologize. Absolutely not.
With that, I don't think I have any debating left in me. I'm off to stare at Meghan McCain's boobs, read the Friday Fun Thread and see if I can find a tauntaun sleeping bag.
Excuse me, a Licensed LucasfilmTM Collectible Tauntaun Sleeping Bag.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Oct 16, 2009 14:24:08 GMT -5
I don't think anyone found his comments on McNabb necessary to national debate. Necessary to national debate? If that's the standard for an ESPN commentator's comments to be broadcast on ESPN, then games will be pretty quiet from now on. That Limbaugh could have not failed to realize that these comments would be viewed as insensitive is another matter.* If that is what is now defined as racism, I would argue that Rush meets that definition. At last, thank you for coming clean! When you say "racism" what you really mean is "perceived as insensitive to the feelings of others." I can claim that everyone from New Jersey has low ethical standards and limited mental capacity That statement might be insensitive, but it doesn't mean I'm a racist. *In this respect, I think Limbaugh eclipses Don Imus, who I believe was railroaded. Imus meant no harm and should have been given a rebuke, no doubt, but been afforded an opportunity to come back. And it's purely a coincidence that Imus is a prominent liberal broadcaster. Yep. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Oct 16, 2009 14:29:06 GMT -5
Ambassador, when you say "Ku Klux Klan racist", you mean like the Democratic senior senator from West Virginia, right?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 16, 2009 14:32:24 GMT -5
Rosslyn - I've been fairly consistent in my position on what constitutes racism, so there is no "coming clean" here or effort to hide the ball. Of course, this is a message board so vagary ensues. I suspect you recognize that my comments were with respect to racial insensitivity, not other forms, but, to the extent that was unclear, oh well. We'll continue to debate an argument that one could not reasonably be making in the service of hiding Limbaugh's pattern of racially insensitive remarks.
I need not respond to your guess about why I think Imus should have been given a second chance.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 16, 2009 14:34:31 GMT -5
Ambassador, when you say "Ku Klux Klan racist", you mean like the Democratic senior senator from West Virginia, right? Yes, and I give him credit for disassociating himself from that vile form of behavior in his later years. Funny how I am frequently asked on here to somehow answer for being an unabashed liberal, and I sometimes do. I have yet to see many instances of that from the other side on this board. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Oct 16, 2009 14:44:06 GMT -5
While I am busy being wildly misconstrued, let me note that I am all for the NFL running its league any way it wants within the law. I simply find it funny that Limbaugh is shunned for his words while Vick,et al are welcomed back after vile deeds. Most precious is Al Sharpton weighing in after his antics in the Brawley case and his "white interlopers" comment about the store in Harlem. It boggles my mind that you can hate Al Sharpton so and yet embrace Rush Limbaugh, who is just as a big a race baiter. I venture that Rush has called more people racist this year than anyone associated with Obama. |
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