SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Feb 11, 2009 13:48:38 GMT -5
I agree with Daytona. WHile it is true that many of our guys have been playing a one-dimensional game since DUKE, that doesn't mean that is all they can do. This team is immensely talented. Could we benefit from more role players? Like Rivers and Macklin? Of course. But the team played GREAT basketball for the first half of the season. They have played lousy, one dimensional hoops since Duke. Same guys. Two different teams. Go back and look at some tape of UCONN, Cuse and others. It is not impossible for this group to get it together and salvage the remainder of the season. But it won't be easy. Can they do it? Tune in Saturday to find out. it's not the talent. everyone should read barker's story in the washington times. do that, and it sheds a ton of light on our struggles. it's not the talent it's not the offense. it's definitely not the coaching it's the chemistry and the fact that our two upperclassmen have failed in just about every aspect this season when it comes to leading younger teammates...we are a sailboat without a rudder..
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Post by richfame on Feb 11, 2009 14:49:31 GMT -5
Everyone is frustrated on here that much is evident.
1. To say JT3 needs to do a better job recruiting is insane. Would we like to have a banger right now? Sure. But these guys are talented and young so thats not the issue.
2. So since we established we got talented guys the problem points at chemistry, heart, desire yada yada. Honestly isnt that what the coach is there for. The role of the coach is to mold a group of guys together and when its all said and done the team should come togeher and play its best ball when it counts. I think this is wher the failure has occured.
either 1. These group of guys are impossible to coach and not even Red Auerbach can coach them, if thats the case we cannot blame JT3 at all. or 2. JT3 has failed to coach or motivat these guys and eventhough hes a great coach we have to point the finger at him and at least entertain the possbiitly hes not doing a gret job with these group of guys. I dont know the answer im jsut throwing out some suggestions on who really is to blame.
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Feb 11, 2009 15:19:22 GMT -5
Here's a fact: the_way will always trash a Hoya team. Right here you have an example of a poster who is glorifying past teams that he trashed at the time.
Ok, let me say from the outset that I think it's a little messed up for me to call someone out based on posts from YEARS ago. But I've seen the_way trash the Hoyas year in and year out. Enough already. Want to know the last time the_way said that posters were "in denial"? It was in December of 2006...OUR FINAL FOUR SEASON:
Posts like these just exemplify the state of denial amongst a lot of folks.
We aren't that good. We just simply aren't.
And if you accept that, then you can see why you see the results or lack of results on the basketball court.
If you bought into the hype of Georgetown being a Final Four team, you are probably befuddled by this team by now.
If you didn't, and are in tune with reality, none of this should be shocking.
We just aren't good, and its going to be a struggle this year.
We aren't a good outside shooting team. We aren't a quick team. We aren't a fast team.
Add to the fact we lost 3 seniors (2 of which who had a history of being clutch during crucial time periods, Cook and Owens).
Add to the fact the number of 1st year players, and 2nd year players getting more playing time and the 3 juniors being placed in new roles that they aren't accustomed to playing, then you are going to have the type of team we have right now.
Its still early, we have a good coaching staff and hopefully we can work through this.
Remember, we are building a basketball program. It takes time. There are peaks and valleys along the way.
Just give it time.
Want another example? From April, 2007, after we went to the final four:
We are good. We just aren't there yet. We still need work.
We overachieved this year. We weren't going to win the National title. I like the progress of the team. Bringing on Wright and Freeman will help (if they are as good as people say they are). Hopefully, Ewing and Macklin can improve, and Rivers can develop more from an offensive standpoint.
So, let me get this straight. Back then, they overachieved. Now, they were a phenomenal team, and this team is entirely one-dimensional. Enough already.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 11, 2009 15:20:07 GMT -5
Richfame, It's 3) Somewhere in the middle with a little of the_way and Florida thrown in. - This team is physically talented
- The team isn't as talented in terms of skills as some might believe (for example, shooting/low post play/shotblocking)
- The team is very young and inexperienced, which partially explains the skill level and explains the lack of toughness and explains...
- The team doesn't play as well together as a veteran team on O or D
- Some of the skill areas haven't progressed as much as we thought they might
Whose fault is that? It's a joint responsibility. I think those that blame the coach for everything tend to view the players either as infallible McDonald's AA or simply like video game players. And those that blame the players exclusively tend to have too high an opinion of the general infallibility of the staff. It's shared, but I'd also say that it's not unexpected. As Florida has said repeatedly, this team is young. Young teams die in the BE. Look at Syracuse. Look at UL at few years ago, UConn, Nova, etc. Very few highly rated freshman and sophomores win in the BE.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Feb 11, 2009 15:30:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure recruting is the problem. JTIII didn't make Macklin and Rivers transfer. He didn't make Braswell (a great rebounder) have academic problems. Several things happened that have left us in a bind on the "talent" front.
I agree with the_way, in so far as many of our players are one dimensional right now. But that's a bit too simple. These guys need to be taught to be more versatile players, and need time to grow into those roles. Roy couldn't do anything well when he arrived except to be tall. Wallace was always a decent all-around player, but didn't become a deadly shooter until his junior and senior years. Jeff showed flashes of brilliance, but made a significant leap each year as well. Even Tyler went from a practice onyl contributer to giving us good minutes in spot duty. Those guys grew up over the course of their four years. Our players are very talented, but the diverse skill sets that our seniors possessed was a combination of talent and experience. Its that combination that is missing on our team.
On our current roster, there are lots of reasons to expect exactly the type erratic and unpredictable results we've been having. There is a leadership void on this team because none of our current players was ever asked to be a leader before. Sapp and Summers were role players. When you have a team with four seniors, it's not surprising that all of the underclassmen deferred to them. Summers and Freeman are being asked to score more. Wright is being asked to take over the point having played only a handful of games last year. And Greg is a freshman, playing the most important position in the Princeton offense. Of course, he's playing out of position as well.
I think JTIII has struggled this year in part because maybe he's not sure what he has. Last year I felt like even as a fan, I could predict who was going to enter the game at certain points. I knew who was going to have the ball in crunch time; who was going to be in the game if we needed a key defensive stop. JTIII seems to have done a lot more tinkering this season than I have seen this late into previous season. Maybe he feels the same way some of us do about the team, which si that he's not sure who can bring what to the table. Nikita didn't play for four games, but after hitting those threes against Syracuse, has played a ton more. Henry and Julian's minutes are all over the place. I think we need to significantly lower expectations or get rid of them all together at this point. I have no idea what this team is going to bring against Syracuse, but here's hoping they play hard and play disciplined basketball. If that happens, then we can definitely have succes the rest of this season.
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Feb 11, 2009 15:37:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure recruting is the problem. JTIII didn't make Macklin and Rivers transfer. He didn't make Braswell (a great rebounder) have academic problems. Several things happened that have left us in a bind on the "talent" front. I agree with the_way, in so far as many of our players are one dimensional right now. But that's a bit too simple. These guys need to be taught to be more versatile players, and need time to grow into those roles. Roy couldn't do anything well when he arrived except to be tall. Wallace was always a decent all-around player, but didn't become a deadly shooter until his junior and senior years. Jeff showed flashes of brilliance, but made a significant leap each year as well. Even Tyler went from a practice onyl contributer to giving us good minutes in spot duty. Those guys grew up over the course of their four years. Our players are very talented, but the diverse skill sets that our seniors possessed was a combination of talent and experience. Its that combination that is missing on our team. On our current roster, there are lots of reasons to expect exactly the type erratic and unpredictable results we've been having. There is a leadership void on this team because none of our current players was ever asked to be a leader before. Sapp and Summers were role players. When you have a team with four seniors, it's not surprising that all of the underclassmen deferred to them. Summers and Freeman are being asked to score more. Wright is being asked to take over the point having played only a handful of games last year. And Greg is a freshman, playing the most important position in the Princeton offense. Of course, he's playing out of position as well. I think JTIII has struggled this year in part because maybe he's not sure what he has. Last year I felt like even as a fan, I could predict who was going to enter the game at certain points. I knew who was going to have the ball in crunch time; who was going to be in the game if we needed a key defensive stop. JTIII seems to have done a lot more tinkering this season than I have seen this late into previous season. Maybe he feels the same way some of us do about the team, which si that he's not sure who can bring what to the table. Nikita didn't play for four games, but after hitting those threes against Syracuse, has played a ton more. Henry and Julian's minutes are all over the place. I think we need to significantly lower expectations or get rid of them all together at this point. I have no idea what this team is going to bring against Syracuse, but here's hoping they play hard and play disciplined basketball. If that happens, then we can definitely have succes the rest of this season. I agree...we play one-dimensional ball right now. But these guys have the capacity to do so much more.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Feb 11, 2009 15:51:02 GMT -5
swhoya,
that certainly puts the_way's post into context. who knew you had time to dig up posts from two years ago, but it was certainly useful. now get back to work!
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swhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Feb 11, 2009 15:56:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I know. I need to stay away from the board when things get ugly. The lack of perspective drives me nuts, and I never met an argument I could let go....
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
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Post by tashoya on Feb 11, 2009 16:02:33 GMT -5
No comment either way on the "issue" cuz i don't even think there is a debatable one. Only this. We get top 100 type guys now that we didn't used to get for a good stretch there. How many of the top 100 guys in any class are anything more than one dimensional? These kids are stars in HS and for the vast majority of them, none of them play a lick of defense. They are either in Group A: The scorers, Group B: The ballhandlers Group C: The rebounders/shotblockers. Exceedingly few are highly touted in more than one area. In other words, apparently the most talented guys start out one-dimensional because that's all they need to be until they get to a higher level (read college). Last I checked, Georgetown plays college basketball. Maybe, just maybe, the young guys are still working on other areas of their games.
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
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Post by kchoya on Feb 11, 2009 16:17:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I know. I need to stay away from the board when things get ugly. The lack of perspective drives me nuts, and I never met an argument I could let go.... Thank you, thank you, thank you. I think you've shown that if anyone is "one dimensional" it's the_way.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Feb 11, 2009 16:44:28 GMT -5
thanks, swhoya. That's what I was getting at with my original post about this clown's negativity, and your "research" completely exposed him as the kneejerk nattering nabob of negativity that he is. Where's the ignore button when you need it?
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 11, 2009 21:59:00 GMT -5
thanks, swhoya. That's what I was getting at with my original post about this clown's negativity, and your "research" completely exposed him as the kneejerk nattering nabob of negativity that he is. Where's the ignore button when you need it? OMG, a Spiro Agnew siting! Or, in this case, is that citing? swhoya, how far back in the millions and millions of pages of threads did you have to go to find those gems?
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
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Post by 757hoyafan on Feb 12, 2009 11:29:00 GMT -5
lol..........
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Feb 12, 2009 22:21:04 GMT -5
For those comparing this season and players to the 04-05 one, I think you are all overlooking one important fact. We are essentially playing in an entirely different league. I mean, sure it's the same league, but we have different teams, more games and the overall level of play has increased. I mean you can say those players that year had so much maturity and were advanced beyond their years, etc. etc, but they didn't face the same kind of competition night in and night out. Throw that team in this league this year, think they have the same type of season? This is just a really bad year to be young in the Big East, and the fact that our senior leader has disappeared has just compounded that and created the situation we are in now.
I am just sick of everyone comparing this teams composure to that of the past two years when those were expierenced team and this isn't. Then when people use the results from the 04-05 season to show the superiority of them once again when these two teams are in totally different situations and facing different levels of competition.
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