Team Chemistry

[SFHoya99]

All these explanations of chemistry don't explain why the team chemistry was just fine even a week ago. Suddenly now people don't play well with others.

[RockawayHoya]

SF, if the Sapp/Wright "feud" began around halftime during the Duke game, that was about a week ago.

[mrsixer123]

Great post. Actually there was jealously towards roy last year by current players. Some couldn't understand why he should receive more "perks" than him even though he was a senior that was part of the programs turn around

[HoyasAreHungry]

if this is true this is really really really bad news....nothing derails a team like this and esp a team sport with such limited numbers....i hope JTIII and the guys can come to some sort of resolution

[NCHoya]

Interesting thread since I think this is EXACTLY what is having the biggest impact on performance right now, trust between each other. These guys are young and used to being "the man" and now they need to play on the same plane. I hope JT3 is a great pyschologist because that is the key determinant of where this team is going.

I am most concerned, however, with Monroe walking off alone. That is not good. I know he is likely frustrated, but he needs to keep working with his teammated to get a better on-court relationship.

You know, like RDF mentioned, I was all excited when I heard this team got along well off the court, but I realize now, that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. When you think of great NBA champs, it is common knowledge guys hated playing with Jordan and the egos in LA were off the charts. But everything was put aside on the court and that is the only chemistry that really counts.

[Filo]

Jan 25, 2009 18:13:47 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

This probably was not visible on TV. But Monroe was SOOOO upset at the end of the game, he walked off the court without even going near the standard post game greeting line. Walked off the court.. straight to the locker room... alone.

Jessie Sapp, on the other hand, went through the line congratulating and hugging the Pirates -- one by one.

At least Monroe was upset. He was Editeded. The rest of the team looks clueless and worse.... they don't really seem to care all that much.

I wasn't aware but according to DFW's recap, Monroe was bumped at the line to rattle him before he missed those 2 FTs. If so, I am sure that was why he was so incensed -- mad at himself for getting rattled.
www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/bball.htm#news

[TBird41]

Jan 25, 2009 22:24:49 GMT -5 Filo said:

Jan 25, 2009 18:13:47 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

This probably was not visible on TV. But Monroe was SOOOO upset at the end of the game, he walked off the court without even going near the standard post game greeting line. Walked off the court.. straight to the locker room... alone.

Jessie Sapp, on the other hand, went through the line congratulating and hugging the Pirates -- one by one.

At least Monroe was upset. He was Editeded. The rest of the team looks clueless and worse.... they don't really seem to care all that much.

I wasn't aware but according to DFW's recap, Monroe was bumped at the line to rattle him before he missed those 2 FTs. If so, I am sure that was why he was so incensed -- mad at himself for getting rattled.
www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/bball.htm#news

He was bumped by Mitchell on Seton Hall. The announcers pointed it out in a replay, and Monroe turned to the refs and said "Did you see that?"

[strummer8526]

Do we have any actual info on potential in-team issues? There have been references here, and frankly, I wouldn't be even slightly surprised given the strange attitude of the team the last few games. But is there any more to go on than that?

[SFHoya99]

Jan 25, 2009 20:41:38 GMT -5 RockawayHoya said:

SF, if the Sapp/Wright "feud" began around halftime during the Duke game, that was about a week ago.

1. It would have to be more than two players feuding to cause the collapse we've seen.

2. Chemistry tends to be a result more than a cause. I bet if we were winning, there'd be no talk of this.

3. Rumors don't do anyone any good.

[sleepy]

Jan 25, 2009 18:13:47 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

Daytona. I would like nothing better than to disagree with you and to point out exactly how wrong you are. Unfortunately, with the exception of your assessment of Sapp, I can't.

I was at the game today. First one this year. I arrived shortly after tip off.
My seats were about 15 rows up, behind the GU bench. I couldn't hear a word, but the body language was very clear.

This team has no chemistry and no fire. No life. No togetherness. No T-E-A-M!
I kept thinking of Pat Jr. How every break when guys would approach the bench he'd be out there cheering, waving his towel, slapping butts, firing everyone up. No one does anything like that. They don't even talk to one another.

These guys looked like pros playing on a team that is 40 games out of playoff contention, playing out the string, the last few games, can't wait to pack their bags, get out their golf clubs and set off in 13 different directions until next season.

I am not kidding and not exaggerating.

Jessie Sapp did miss a big three at the end, and badly. But he is not the problem on this team. He hit 2/5 from three, 3/8 overall, had 9 boards and 4 assists. Should have had more. Showed a little fire and determination, and some NYC street moves.

Greg Monroe did see the ball down the stretch... right up until the Hoyas had a chance to tie or take the lead when Summers decided to fire up another three before Monroe even touched the ball. Where was Summers' head today? 6 Turnovers?

This probably was not visible on TV. But Monroe was SOOOO upset at the end of the game, he walked off the court without even going near the standard post game greeting line. Walked off the court.. straight to the locker room... alone.

Jessie Sapp, on the other hand, went through the line congratulating and hugging the Pirates -- one by one.

At least Monroe was upset. He was Editeded. The rest of the team looks clueless and worse.... they don't really seem to care all that much.

How a team as good as this one, that beat UCONN at their house, demolished 'Cuse 10 days ago, can suddenly look completely lost vs. WVU and Seton Hall???

Something really bad must have gone down that we are not yet aware of. Some big fight, or internal strife or something. It beats me what it is, but this was not just a tough loss. This was a really really poor showing. And I, for one, have no idea what the answer is.

To be fair I was at the Uconn game and was sitting a few rows above the bench and they acted the same way but played just fine.
Personally I don't think this is a chemistry problem, it just doesn't make sense. Even if every single one of our players hated each other, they still should have one this game.
I don't even this this is a "selfish" problem. For one a team doesn't go from being a fairly/average unselfish team, to this in a matter of days. Just doesn't happen. I know many will argue its been there all along, but it hasn't, we wouldn't have had such a good record if it had. Also even if it was a team selfish problem, we STILL should have one this game as these guys are talented enough.
Personally I think this is a confidence problem, they don't have confidence in themselves, and they don't have confidence in their teamates. When that happens, well, you see the results you seeing now. I think the whole thing started with Jesse's slump, everyone, including himself, lost confidence in him, and then it just spiraled out of control. Once you lose confidence in your team leader and capitan its easy to lose cofindence in anyone else.
I am not really sure how a team can fix this problem.

[HoyaFanNY]

success in this offense requires all 5 players to be on the same page. right now, we don't have 2 on the same page. greg seems to get it, but he is the only one. sapp is trying, but he isn't capable of carrying a team. freeman and summers are capable, but they are terrible right now, and worst than that they are lazy. both stand around watching the ball on defense. summers looks nailed to the floor when someone takes him off the dribble. wright is trying way to hard. he gives good effort but not an effective effort. too much out of control. way too much dribbling in the half court.

our bench is what it is, young and inconsistent. it won't carry us to a win too often. clark and vaughn give a good effort. wattad tries, but he honestly wouldn't touch the floor for any other ranked team. henry deserved better yesterday. he may make mistakes, but he gives effort, unlike summers and freeman.

someone needs to kick this team in the ass. i say lock them in a room with pops for an hour.

[SirSaxa]

Jan 26, 2009 7:24:04 GMT -5 HoyaFanNY said:

someone needs to kick this team in the ass. i say lock them in a room with pops for an hour.

THAT is the best suggestion I have read on this board!!!

[KHoyaNYC]

Jan 26, 2009 2:59:50 GMT -5 sleepy said:

Jan 25, 2009 18:13:47 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

Daytona. I would like nothing better than to disagree with you and to point out exactly how wrong you are. Unfortunately, with the exception of your assessment of Sapp, I can't.

I was at the game today. First one this year. I arrived shortly after tip off.
My seats were about 15 rows up, behind the GU bench. I couldn't hear a word, but the body language was very clear.

This team has no chemistry and no fire. No life. No togetherness. No T-E-A-M!
I kept thinking of Pat Jr. How every break when guys would approach the bench he'd be out there cheering, waving his towel, slapping butts, firing everyone up. No one does anything like that. They don't even talk to one another.

These guys looked like pros playing on a team that is 40 games out of playoff contention, playing out the string, the last few games, can't wait to pack their bags, get out their golf clubs and set off in 13 different directions until next season.

I am not kidding and not exaggerating.

Jessie Sapp did miss a big three at the end, and badly. But he is not the problem on this team. He hit 2/5 from three, 3/8 overall, had 9 boards and 4 assists. Should have had more. Showed a little fire and determination, and some NYC street moves.

Greg Monroe did see the ball down the stretch... right up until the Hoyas had a chance to tie or take the lead when Summers decided to fire up another three before Monroe even touched the ball. Where was Summers' head today? 6 Turnovers?

This probably was not visible on TV. But Monroe was SOOOO upset at the end of the game, he walked off the court without even going near the standard post game greeting line. Walked off the court.. straight to the locker room... alone.

Jessie Sapp, on the other hand, went through the line congratulating and hugging the Pirates -- one by one.

At least Monroe was upset. He was Editeded. The rest of the team looks clueless and worse.... they don't really seem to care all that much.

How a team as good as this one, that beat UCONN at their house, demolished 'Cuse 10 days ago, can suddenly look completely lost vs. WVU and Seton Hall???

Something really bad must have gone down that we are not yet aware of. Some big fight, or internal strife or something. It beats me what it is, but this was not just a tough loss. This was a really really poor showing. And I, for one, have no idea what the answer is.

To be fair I was at the Uconn game and was sitting a few rows above the bench and they acted the same way but played just fine.
Personally I don't think this is a chemistry problem, it just doesn't make sense. Even if every single one of our players hated each other, they still should have one this game.
I don't even this this is a "selfish" problem. For one a team doesn't go from being a fairly/average unselfish team, to this in a matter of days. Just doesn't happen. I know many will argue its been there all along, but it hasn't, we wouldn't have had such a good record if it had. Also even if it was a team selfish problem, we STILL should have one this game as these guys are talented enough.
Personally I think this is a confidence problem, they don't have confidence in themselves, and they don't have confidence in their teamates. When that happens, well, you see the results you seeing now. I think the whole thing started with Jesse's slump, everyone, including himself, lost confidence in him, and then it just spiraled out of control. Once you lose confidence in your team leader and capitan its easy to lose cofindence in anyone else.
I am not really sure how a team can fix this problem.

I'll second was sleepy said re the UCONN game. I noticed that the team was very unemotional and quiet that game with the exception of Freeman's reverse and 1 under the basket but I chalked it up to a steely, intense but quiet, workmanlike "get it done" attitude which I thought fit the team well. Maybe I'm wrong.

The team lacks maturity and mental toughness now, plain and simple. They can't handle being down to an average or better team, and rather than work together to overcome adversity they decide to just play "me only" basketball which exacerbates the problem. The good news is this is VERY correctable through (1) coaching and (2) getting your butt kicked enough times that you realize you need to change your ways. Maturity/mental toughness comes with time and there's plenty of time left in this season. It's still January. The jury is still out.

[RusskyHoya]

Like SirSaxa, I was too far away from the bench to hear anything, but my vantage point (about 10 rows behind the Seton Hall band) did give me a pretty good view of our bench, and the lack of intensity was noticeable and, given what we've come to expect over the past few seasons, rather disconcerting.

More than that, though, I think much of the problem can be traced to mental toughness and experience. I think a lot of us were a bit underwhelmed by the team's peformance last year, given the expectations coming off of a Final Four run. Wins came much harder than we expected and we had to grind out a lot of victories. Having said that, when the going got tough, we had veteran leadership both on and off the court that kept the team from getting despirited and kept things from spiraling out of control. For the most part, they stayed calm and focused.

This year, our one senior leader is mired in a shooting slump, which is not too conducive to being a leader as a shooting guard. For that and maybe other reasons, he hasn't been able to exert the kind of leadership this team seems to need. Plus, he is only one man.

Meanwhile, our one junior, the only other player from the Final Four team, seems hell bent on proving that he can ride a bike with no handlebars. Prove it to who, I'm not sure (NBA scouts? His teammates? JTIII? Himself?). Insofar as this makes him be aggressive, it's not inherently a bad thing, and it can lead to him making some nice drives and drawing some picturesque intentional fouls. Unfortunately, DaJuan is not a polished finisher, and just as often his attempts fall flat in jarring ways. And I certainly haven't seen anything to suggest that he is trying to assume any sort of mantle of leadership.

Rather than trying to psychoanalyze the team from afar or anything like that, I'll just summarize this way: I have heard someone on the team (maybe III himself) describe our offense as "guys passing up good shots in order to create great shots." Well, ain't no one passing up any good shots right now. And when those good shots fall, we win (Maryland, Memphis, UConn, Cuse). Unfortunately, we are not a consistently well-shooting team (maybe the opposite, in fact), so when those good shots don't fall, we lose. That's how the game goes, but it's maddening to us because we know the system should be generating higher-percentage shots.

[the_way]

Its not chemistry.

We just aren't that good

We aren't collapsing.

We just aren't that good.

If you thought this was a Final Four type team, i'd be worried.

But we aren't. We are no better than anybody else right now.

We got to scrap and claw our way to get to the tournament this year.

We are a relatively young team. Our main contributors as upperclassman are the consistently inconsitent Summers and Sapp.

Then we have 1st year starter Wright playing in an expanded role. This really like his freshman year if you think about it.

Wattad is playing an expanded role. Sims and Vaghn are 1st year players who aren't exactly ready for big time play on a consistent basis.

So, that leaves with Freeman and Monroe. Freeman is what he is. A quiet guy who can score, and thats about it.

And Monroe is a great talent, it seems to "get it" better than any other player on this roster AND also have the ability to play big time consistently.

Does this sound like a "great team"? Or a team that will have ups and downs like were are having this year?

Its the latter.

[whipple]

My favorite part of the game was the double Tech, when Sapp ran up after Summers hit the floor. I didn't think it was intentional, but Garcia was just too fat and slow to make a correct play. Anyway, I always worried that Jessie felt left-out as the younger guys slowly take over, but it was good to see him try to be a part of the team--even if he was possibly just putting on a show for NY friends at the game.

I think coach stood back at SH to see if they could pull themselves out. The season is too long for a young team to hit their peak early in the season and hold on.

Now coach is just letting them break-down so that he can build them up. III has a plan for these ups and downs, and it might be the "don't fly too close to the sun" idea, but I'd rather learn that less now as opposed to learning it against Davidson in March.

[tashoya]

Put them in a room with Big John for an hour? Like we don't have enough problems with depth now. How many of the guys you think make it outta that room after an hour?

As for worrying about the NBA, who is? DaJuan? Fine. What else is new? Greg? Doesn't seem to be. Anyone else? They certainly shouldn't be. Chris Wright? Austin Freeman? Have they seen themselves play? I used to be pretty proud of my math skills but I never thought I was Euclid.

If there's a rift between players, work it out. You're adults now. Act like it. In either case, you have a job to do. Do it.

[vamosalaplaya]

Georgetown's scoring pace has increased dramatically this year - at least until the past two games. In the offseason, there was all sorts of speculation about how JT III was going to incorporate all this offensive speed and firepower into the Princeton offense. Nobody seems to realize that we are seeing is the flip side of that faster pace the team has been playing.

Now the flip side of running the offense faster is the team takes quick shots - they get impatient after 3-4 passes, instead of running the clock down every time. Players start to free lance instead of running the offense further into the shot clock. And the three pointers aren't as open, etc.

Some posters are hinting darkly about team chemistry issues; I have seen enough JT III GU games up close to know that reading the bench decorum is about the last thing you should do to get a read on anything. There may be something there but the bench isn't going to provide alot of hints unless a full fledged fight breaks out or something.

But it could be the faster pace of the offense, that was clicking into gear for a while there, has gone off the rails in what looks like a sea of selfish play but is really a bunch of guys trying to figure out how to win.

Organizational behavior is a boring class if you take it in school; when it plays out in real life, it is more nuanced. I loved The Wire reference (but what GU really needs is a version of Omar on the front line) - but Spinal Tap has a great quote, "There is a thin line between clever and stupid."

Many great organizations and teams often exist on a thin line between cohesion and meltdown; there is never 100% harmony behind the scenes. This team can come back from these setbacks very easily, and arguably losing a few games like this is the kind of adversity they need to set them straight.

[JohnnyJones]

Jan 26, 2009 10:00:06 GMT -5 vamosalaplaya said:

Georgetown's scoring pace has increased dramatically this year - at least until the past two games. In the offseason, there was all sorts of speculation about how JT III was going to incorporate all this offensive speed and firepower into the Princeton offense. Nobody seems to realize that we are seeing is the flip side of that faster pace the team has been playing.

Now the flip side of running the offense faster is the team takes quick shots - they get impatient after 3-4 passes, instead of running the clock down every time. Players start to free lance instead of running the offense further into the shot clock. And the three pointers aren't as open, etc.

Some posters are hinting darkly about team chemistry issues; I have seen enough JT III GU games up close to know that reading the bench decorum is about the last thing you should do to get a read on anything. There may be something there but the bench isn't going to provide alot of hints unless a full fledged fight breaks out or something.

But it could be the faster pace of the offense, that was clicking into gear for a while there, has gone off the rails in what looks like a sea of selfish play but is really a bunch of guys trying to figure out how to win.

Organizational behavior is a boring class if you take it in school; when it plays out in real life, it is more nuanced. I loved The Wire reference (but what GU really needs is a version of Omar on the front line) - but Spinal Tap has a great quote, "There is a thin line between clever and stupid."

Many great organizations and teams often exist on a thin line between cohesion and meltdown; they is never 100% harmony behind the scenes. This team can come back from these setbacks very easily, and arguably losing a few games like this is the kind of adversity they need to set them straight.

Very nice post. Who knows what the right answer is, but glad to have other options/explanations to consider.

[Filo]

And if we are getting Spinal Tap quotes around here, maybe things are turning around...