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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 8, 2012 22:46:43 GMT -5
But of course you won't backtrack on your poorly sourced and just generally inflammatory statement earlier. I do backtrack on that and I apologize. The numbers are not as high as my earlier post but are still a much higher percent for African Americans than for whites. Definitely fair to classify any handout as being for blacks then. Well done, Santorum.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 8, 2012 23:44:30 GMT -5
The South is less of a police state mainly because the federal government has prevented their most egregious attempts at discrimination for the past 40 years.
Republicans certainly believe that photo ID requirements will suppress more black votes than white votes. They would not be pushing it otherwise.
Election fraud is most often committed by crooked election officials and precinct workers and by absentee voting operations from both sides that turn in stacks of ballots. It is a lot easier for party officials to rig elections by having partisan state, county, and city election officials who will use their discretionary authority to approve questionable ballots from their side and throw out similar ones from the other side. Nobody in their right mind would go through the trouble of having people voting repeatedly under different names. It would be a very high risk, very low reward strategy.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 8, 2012 23:59:34 GMT -5
Republicans certainly believe that photo ID requirements will suppress more black votes than white votes. They would not be pushing it otherwise. Wow. Umm, OK. It's pretty much the thing they talk about in their dark and stormy castles, I'll bet. This thread has gotten so silly, I'm looking for Graham Chapman to step in and call a halt at any moment.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2012 0:13:53 GMT -5
Oh come on, let's not play coy and stupid. That's obviously the objective - cage/disenfranchise Democratic votes. I'd broaden the categories they are aiming for to Hispanics, the young, and people who live in cities with mass transportation and no driver's license.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 9, 2012 9:22:58 GMT -5
Oh come on, let's not play coy and stupid. That's obviously the objective - cage/disenfranchise Democratic votes. I'd broaden the categories they are aiming for to Hispanics, the young, and people who live in cities with mass transportation and no driver's license. Sigh. Republicans want to disenfranchise people who engage in voter fraud. That's it.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 9, 2012 9:47:39 GMT -5
Probably because the Constitution gives the power to regulate the "time, places and manner" of elections to the states (and lets Congress change laws as well) Oh, I see. So the poll tax is legal then, right? Although it's an interesting question, I didn't ask Ed whether the statute is constitutional. I asked whether, as an advocate of extremely limited government, he thinks it is advisable to pass such laws. I do not think it is advisable to pass such laws.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 9, 2012 9:49:58 GMT -5
The primary purpose of photo ID laws is to prevent illegal aliens from voting. The Democrats do not like photo ID laws because they prevent illegal aliens from voting.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2012 9:52:55 GMT -5
Sigh. Republicans want to disenfranchise people who engage in voter fraud. That's it. Great, name some cases where voter fraud was proven and an in-person impersonation would have prevented by the authentication of an ID. That sort of thing doesn't exist. If voter fraud even happens, it likely doesn't happen at the polls. However, these changes would cage Democratic votes.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 9, 2012 10:59:53 GMT -5
Oh come on, let's not play coy and stupid. That's obviously the objective - cage/disenfranchise Democratic votes. I'd broaden the categories they are aiming for to Hispanics, the young, and people who live in cities with mass transportation and no driver's license. Because it's so hard to get a state ID card...
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2012 11:10:42 GMT -5
Because it's so hard to get a state ID card... You consider navigating the DMV easy? Republicans are making it harder to get that too, like in Wisconsin where they specifically instructed workers not to tell people they could get a free state ID so that they could charge $28 for them. I honestly don't remember the last time I've needed to present my Driver's License for anything. I don't get carded anymore, you never need to present one to use a credit card - I think the only thing I've needed my driver's license for in the past year is to buy prescription cough medicine at the pharmacy.
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jan 9, 2012 11:26:50 GMT -5
If this was actually about preventing voter fraud, where are the examples of voter fraud that this kind of legislation would prevent?
Further, is this an isolated interest in voter fraud or have Republicans had a larger effort to prevent voter fraud outside of voter id laws?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 9, 2012 11:56:54 GMT -5
If this is about race, why does Rhode Island and it's Democrat controlled legislature hate black people?
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quickplay
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Post by quickplay on Jan 9, 2012 12:19:18 GMT -5
If this is about race, why does Rhode Island and it's Democrat controlled legislature hate black people? I don't think it's about race, I think it's about reducing likely Democratic voters, wherever that may fall.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2012 12:29:30 GMT -5
If this is about race, why does Rhode Island and it's Democrat controlled legislature hate black people? Who is arguing it is about race? Rhode Island's Voter ID law is a lot different than the Republican-controlled voter ID laws (effective in 2014 not 2012, provisional ballots where signature is checked vs. voter reg - no need for the person to actually GET an ID, broader forms of IDs available). Republicans everywhere are trying to get these laws though - my rep in Massachusetts is pushing for one.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 11, 2012 11:15:43 GMT -5
Because it's so hard to get a state ID card... You consider navigating the DMV easy? Republicans are making it harder to get that too, like in Wisconsin where they specifically instructed workers not to tell people they could get a free state ID so that they could charge $28 for them. I honestly don't remember the last time I've needed to present my Driver's License for anything. I don't get carded anymore, you never need to present one to use a credit card - I think the only thing I've needed my driver's license for in the past year is to buy prescription cough medicine at the pharmacy. I had to show my DL to get an iPhone last weekend. That store was much more of a pain to navigate than the DMV.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 11, 2012 11:17:33 GMT -5
Who is arguing it is about race? Republicans certainly believe that photo ID requirements will suppress more black votes than white votes. They would not be pushing it otherwise.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 11, 2012 11:20:33 GMT -5
Who is arguing it is about race? Republicans certainly believe that photo ID requirements will suppress more black votes than white votes. They would not be pushing it otherwise. Any comparison to the poll tax is brings with it some pretty heavy racial subtext also.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 11, 2012 13:19:10 GMT -5
Because it's so hard to get a state ID card... You consider navigating the DMV easy? Republicans are making it harder to get that too, like in Wisconsin where they specifically instructed workers not to tell people they could get a free state ID so that they could charge $28 for them. I honestly don't remember the last time I've needed to present my Driver's License for anything. I don't get carded anymore, you never need to present one to use a credit card - I think the only thing I've needed my driver's license for in the past year is to buy prescription cough medicine at the pharmacy. Tried to use a check to pay your grocery bill lately? Tried to board an airplane lately? At the bank, tried to draw money from your bank account lately? Join the real world.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Jan 11, 2012 13:36:06 GMT -5
Tried to use a check to pay your grocery bill lately? Tried to board an airplane lately? At the bank, tried to draw money from your bank account lately? Join the real world. A good portion of young people probably have not boarded an airplane recently, spoken to a bank teller recently, and have not ever paid for their groceries with a check. Furthermore, two of your examples involve a bank, which 7.7% of households ( link), which includes a lot of minorities. Quickplay's point here is that this form of voted fraud is largely an imagined problem that is created because your solution casts a wide net that will also make it much more difficult for certain populations (that tend to vote heavily Democratic) to vote.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 11, 2012 13:50:53 GMT -5
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