Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 16, 2011 23:50:52 GMT -5
I agree with Karl Rove that Perry's statement was not presidential at all (though Rove, I think, had other reasons for saying so than actually believing it...cough--basicallyworkingforromney--cough).
On the other hand, it has been so blown out of frickin' proportion that it has become literally nauseating.
Let's all grow up. That includes not making a dumb accusation like "nearly treasonous" for making (what I agree would be) bad monetary policy decisions. And it also includes not acting like he was asking his supporters to bring him the head of the Fed chair on a plate of brisket. Sheesh!
Mmmmmm.....brisket.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 17, 2011 9:30:50 GMT -5
I agree with Karl Rove that Perry's statement was not presidential at all (though Rove, I think, had other reasons for saying so than actually believing it...cough--basicallyworkingforromney--cough). On the other hand, it has been so blown out of frickin' proportion that it has become literally nauseating. Let's all grow up. That includes not making a dumb accusation like "nearly treasonous" for making (what I agree would be) bad monetary policy decisions. And it also includes not acting like he was asking his supporters to bring him the head of the Fed chair on a plate of brisket. Sheesh! Mmmmmm.....brisket. I agree. Perry has made much worse statements, like the racist statement he made where he called Obama a black cloud over America. Mmmmmm... burnt ends. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 17, 2011 9:34:16 GMT -5
If Mitt Romney had made the same statement, substituting Massachusetts for Texas, would he have "lost you?" Assuming your answer is "no," it is your perception of Texas that makes Perry's statement problematic for you. The comparison is absurd. When is the last time anyone has made a "Don't Mess With Massachusetts (or we'll beat you up)" statement? |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 17, 2011 9:48:15 GMT -5
If Mitt Romney had made the same statement, substituting Massachusetts for Texas, would he have "lost you?" Assuming your answer is "no," it is your perception of Texas that makes Perry's statement problematic for you. The comparison is absurd. When is the last time anyone has ever made a "Don't Mess With Massachusetts (or we'll beat you up)" statement? Pretty much every drunk Red Sox fan you run into? Is drunk Red Sox fan redundant? ;D |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 17, 2011 9:55:18 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 17, 2011 11:00:44 GMT -5
In my estimation Fenway is one of the friendlier ballparks for visitors in MLB these days, certainly outside of the midwest. The drunken louts have been more or less priced out for better or worse and Fenway security is extremely efficient. Can't say the same for Philly or the Dodgers.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 17, 2011 11:13:07 GMT -5
thebin, I'm not sure I agree with you on the experience requirement. The job of the president is to be a leader and an administrator. He/she must function most of the time through his/her subordinates so his/her ability to manage people in large organizations is one of the keys to an effective presidency. No one who serves his life in the congress gets any of that experience but governors do, no matter how you judge the way the governorship is established in a particular state. CEOs of large corporations also get that type of experience. No person can know everything so his/her success is mostly determined by the competency of the people under him/her, along with his/her ability to manage them. Unfortunately, in todays media world, an extraordinary influence on electabiity is the candidates ability to speak and inspire which are important but not nearly as important as the ability to manage. A president must rely on the people working under him/her to do the detail work, under general guidance as to direction. While there is some merit to position that the president is an executive position more suited to governors than legislators...I believe it is overdone. As was the silly notion 4 years ago that Obama couldn't get elected because we hadn't elected a senator in a while. People put too much stock in these bromides, even if they contain kernals of truth. The reality is that high ranking congressmen and senators have to delegate to staff as well as the rank and file. Whatever they may lack in more literal executive experience, there is a flip side to be considered as well. Congressmen (particularly well seasoned ones on important committees) are exposed to a whole host of national (not just state or regional) and more importantly international policies and arguments that a governor or business executive may not be. |
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Aug 17, 2011 11:57:43 GMT -5
I agree. Perry has made much worse statements, like the racist statement he made where he called Obama a black cloud over America. Mmmmmm... burnt ends. the black cloud comments by sharpton & others are another depressing example of how news hosts as well as scum like sharpton regularly flat out lie to their viewers in order to rile them up. www.breitbart.tv/nbc-news-ed-schultz-admits-selective-edit-deception-not-false-racism-charge/I think the difference today as opposed to 20 years ago or more is that the politicians now play the same game the radio and tv hosts do and use the same words and the same half (at best) truth's that you used only hear from the limbaugh's and the olberman's i worry about the future of our republic since i dont know how we can get politicians to behave like adults and try to tackle issues rather than try to score points that will get them re-elected since playing to the lowest common denominator works and lying rarely carries a penalty unless you lie about who you slept with. |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 17, 2011 12:25:01 GMT -5
thebin, I'm not sure I agree with you on the experience requirement. The job of the president is to be a leader and an administrator. He/she must function most of the time through his/her subordinates so his/her ability to manage people in large organizations is one of the keys to an effective presidency. No one who serves his life in the congress gets any of that experience but governors do, no matter how you judge the way the governorship is established in a particular state. CEOs of large corporations also get that type of experience. No person can know everything so his/her success is mostly determined by the competency of the people under him/her, along with his/her ability to manage them. Unfortunately, in todays media world, an extraordinary influence on electabiity is the candidates ability to speak and inspire which are important but not nearly as important as the ability to manage. A president must rely on the people working under him/her to do the detail work, under general guidance as to direction. While there is some merit to position that the president is an executive position more suited to governors than legislators...I believe it is overdone. As was the silly notion 4 years ago that Obama couldn't get elected because we hadn't elected a senator in a while. People put too much stock in these bromides, even if they contain kernals of truth. The reality is that high ranking congressmen and senators have to delegate to staff as well as the rank and file. Whatever they may lack in more literal executive experience, there is a flip side to be considered as well. Congressmen (particularly well seasoned ones on important committees) are exposed to a whole host of national (not just state or regional) and more importantly international policies and arguments that a governor or business executive may not be. I fundamentally disagree. During the fight on the debt ceiling, no one really owned Congress - not even Boehner. McConnell stepped in quietly and fixed things, but he did it from behind the scenes. That's fundamentally not the job of the president, who is supposed to be the lightning rod, for good or for ill. I think that a reasonable criticism that can be made of Obama has been that he's never gotten out in front on any issue (with one exception - killing bin Laden - and it was very successful). Leading from behind has been unsuccesful in both the health care reform debate - where Obama disappeared and let the Tea Party drive the discussion - and in the recent debt ceiling fight. Part of being in the House or Senate is being part of a mob. Even if you're a committee chair, you're not leading debate. |
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 17, 2011 12:32:31 GMT -5
In my estimation Fenway is one of the friendlier ballparks for visitors in MLB these days, certainly outside of the midwest. The drunken louts have been more or less priced out for better or worse and Fenway security is extremely efficient. Can't say the same for Philly or the Dodgers. That's really good to hear. When I attended Red Sox games in the 70's, sitting in the bleachers was quite an adventure for me, as was a drive through Southie or Revere. El Tiante vs. Palmer, heat of the pennant race in September. What a game, beer thrown at me notwithstanding! Now, back to presidential politics.... |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 17, 2011 12:35:38 GMT -5
I agree. Perry has made much worse statements, like the racist statement he made where he called Obama a black cloud over America. Mmmmmm... burnt ends. Oh, man. Burnt ends I'm pretty sure they may constitute proof of the existence of a benevolent god. Sorry, what were we talking about? Something about Obama's bus tour? Complete with Spinal Tap Smell The Glove-style bus designs? ;D |
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 17, 2011 12:44:36 GMT -5
There's something about this bus that's so black, it's like how much more black could this be? And the answer is none. None more black.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 17, 2011 12:53:14 GMT -5
"Just for the record, Dan Quayle kind of qualified as someone who was young and inexperienced..." Would totally agree he would fit into the group of non-serious candidates I am talking about. Of course it is a magnitude of order less disturbing when it is the VP slot in question, but it is still important. Which is why McCain's selection of Palin pushed me as close to the edge as possible of not voting for him. But increasingly, we seem ready to elevate these non-serious candidates (who may become serious candidates after say a decade or two of high level experience) to the top slot. Our degeneration into a nation of children continues at an alarming rate when we can seriously posit people who have had serious elected positions for only a few years as presidential candidates. Frankly, Bush and Obama had not enough experience for my taste. Palin and Bachmann have maybe half of their experience, and Haley an eighth! They shouldn't even be in the conversation at this point. But ours is a silly celebrity-based culture to the bone. I propose the informal adoption of what I would call the Harriet Miers test for candidates for any very serious office. If you were to ask an objective source to write out a list of the most qualified 100 candidates for an office...is it reasonable to EXPECT that your candidate would be on it? If not, toss them. No Harriet Miers justices, no Palin or Bachman presidential candidates. They might one day make that 100, but until then, it just really embarasses the country that they get so much attention. Again, there is nothing to say that a Palin or Bachmann might not one day EARN their way onto the top 100 qualified hypothetical...but let's make them earn it, huh? Experience may once have been overrated, but it is now fiercely underrated- which is to say in reality experience is now far less important than how they look or how they publically profess to worship. I'm not comfortable with idea of going from summer intern to CEO in a few months. Full disclosure....My inspiration came from this G Will classic. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/04/AR2005100400954.html |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Aug 17, 2011 13:16:28 GMT -5
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 17, 2011 13:47:38 GMT -5
"Just for the record, Dan Quayle kind of qualified as someone who was young and inexperienced..." Would totally agree he would fit into the group of non-serious candidates I am talking about. Of course it is a magnitude of order less disturbing when it is the VP slot in question, but it is still important. Which is why McCain's selection of Palin pushed me as close to the edge as possible of not voting for him. But increasingly, we seem ready to elevate these non-serious candidates (who may become serious candidates after say a decade or two of high level experience) to the top slot. Our degeneration into a nation of children continues at an alarming rate when we can seriously posit people who have had serious elected positions for only a few years as presidential candidates. Frankly, Bush and Obama had not enough experience for my taste. Palin and Bachmann have maybe half of their experience, and Haley an eighth! They shouldn't even be in the conversation at this point. But ours is a silly celebrity-based culture to the bone. I propose the informal adoption of what I would call the Harriet Miers test for candidates for any very serious office. If you were to ask an objective source to write out a list of the most qualified 100 candidates for an office...is it reasonable to EXPECT that your candidate would be on it? If not, toss them. No Harriet Miers justices, no Palin or Bachman presidential candidates. They might one day make that 100, but until then, it just really embarasses the country that they get so much attention. Again, there is nothing to say that a Palin or Bachmann might not one day EARN their way onto the top 100 qualified hypothetical...but let's make them earn it, huh? Experience may once have been overrated, but it is now fiercely underrated- which is to say in reality experience is now far less important than how they look or how they publically profess to worship. I'm not comfortable with idea of going from summer intern to CEO in a few months. Full disclosure....My inspiration came from this G Will classic. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/04/AR2005100400954.htmlIs there something in here elvado that I missed? |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 17, 2011 18:58:22 GMT -5
Apropos of the bin's earlier post, does anyone believe, HONESTLY, that when he announced his candidacy, Barack Obama would have made that mythical 100 person list?
I think if you exclude your knowledge of what happened afte h declared, your honest answer would be no. He had arguably the thinnest resume of anyone in the field. Love him or hate him politically, he was a great unknown and a leap of faith. I am afraid where that leap will land.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 17, 2011 20:20:10 GMT -5
Apropos of the bin's earlier post, does anyone believe, HONESTLY, that when he announced his candidacy, Barack Obama would have made that mythical 100 person list? I think if you exclude your knowledge of what happened afte h declared, your honest answer would be no. He had arguably the thinnest resume of anyone in the field. Love him or hate him politically, he was a great unknown and a leap of faith. I am afraid where that leap will land. I don't think we need to keep re-hashing this BUT George W. Bush was in all likelihood the least experienced person ever elected to the presidency of the United States of America. It is a shame that he only held that record for eight years. It would be in all of our best interests if we could all agree that we will never allow this to happen again. The difficult part, I think, would be convincing the media to spread the idea that being a good President is HARD. It's not something that half of us (even us Hoyatalkers) could just parachute into Dave-style and be awesome at. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 18, 2011 10:02:55 GMT -5
Apropos of the bin's earlier post, does anyone believe, HONESTLY, that when he announced his candidacy, Barack Obama would have made that mythical 100 person list? I think if you exclude your knowledge of what happened afte h declared, your honest answer would be no. He had arguably the thinnest resume of anyone in the field. Love him or hate him politically, he was a great unknown and a leap of faith. I am afraid where that leap will land. I don't think we need to keep re-hashing this BUT George W. Bush was in all likelihood the least experienced person ever elected to the presidency of the United States of America. It is a shame that he only held that record for eight years. It would be in all of our best interests if we could all agree that we will never allow this to happen again. The difficult part, I think, would be convincing the media to spread the idea that being a good President is HARD. It's not something that half of us (even us Hoyatalkers) could just parachute into Dave-style and be awesome at. I don't know. Ten years as governor of Arkansas probably equates to five years as governor of Texas. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 18, 2011 10:09:27 GMT -5
I'm ready to elect Jason Clark. How about you all?
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Aug 18, 2011 11:10:48 GMT -5
It's mornings like this that I could really appreciate a President Bachmann.
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