|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 3, 2008 13:36:32 GMT -5
There are plenty of people who talk differently with out sounding dumb having an accent doesn't make you sound dumb. The way she specifically talks does make her sound dumb. and you ignore my point that if she had said something substantive while talking in that accent people wouldn't make fun of her as much. But when she's just reading talking points of the sheet in front of her and stumbling over her words while talking like that she comes off as unintelligent like it or not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 13:36:52 GMT -5
There were on the order of 42% more people who tuned in on the Palin/Biden debate last night than did so for the Obama/McCain debate. www.thrfeed.com/2008/10/vp-debate-ratin.htmlWow! I don't think the majority of those that tuned in were there to see and hear Biden. Depending on how viewers reacted to "cute" Sarah Palin and her anti-East Coast elites way of talkin', this could impact the election. Wishful thinking? Aw shucks, we'll just have to wait to see what happens over the next several days. And HoyaSinceBirth, your observation "Like it or not while talking like that doesn't mean you're unintelligent it sure makes you sound like you are." is a perfect illustration of snobbish East Coast elites saying that others that talk differently from you sound dumb. Might surprise you to learn there are many, many millions of intelligent people across the country that don't talk like you. I'm guessing some of that 42% watched for train-wreck purposes only. And if Sarah Palin were actually smart, would anyone be talking about the sound of her voice and her down-home catchphrases today? Ummmm......no. We'd all be talking about how smart she is. If she's hiding some reservoir of smarts that she's going to unleash on the world in a blaze of glory, someone on Team McCain needs to make sure she does it in the next 30 days or so. She had 90 minutes last night to prove how smart she is, and she instead went out of her way to prove how folksy she is. That tells me all I need to know. If that makes me a dreaded East Coast Elite, I can live with that.
|
|
|
Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Oct 3, 2008 13:37:55 GMT -5
wow....and all this time I thought those lines from the Dude Ranch album were as incomprehensible as the lines from Louie Louie. Fine Blink182 reference Buff! I hate to do this as I'm a big Coast2CoastHoya fan, but... ... blink-182 sucks. That's actually a conversation between characters in the funniest movie of all time, "Airplane!" wow my BAD. totally forgot the airplane reference. totally remembered that same conversation taking place on the dude ranch album between delong and hoppus. now i must go watch airplane 5 times this weekend to clear my head properly. thanks for the vote of confidence buff, and blink may suck, but i seem to recall a certain gentleman jumping up and down screaming for monique powell of save ferris to marry him at the 9:30 club ...... ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 14:13:48 GMT -5
EDIT: Cam - keep working at it. Soon enough you'll be an ELITE East Coast elite like me. Of course, Buff - we all know the East Coast of Lake Ontario houses the Elitest of all the East Coast Elites.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Oct 3, 2008 14:48:30 GMT -5
I thought Sarah Palin did a very good job last night, at least equally as well as Biden who has been on the national stage for decades. She has some core values that guide what she says and she does not detour from those. To me she showed an ability to absorb a lot of material in the five weeks she has been in the spotlight and that encouraged me that, given time, she will become capable of being President. I said in an earlier thread I do not believe she is now ready but will be ready after some period of immersion in the national scene. I have already said that Obama is more ready at this point in time than Palin to become Pres but that doesn't mean he is ready now, only that he is more ready than Palin. Remember she is running for VP, not Pres like Obama is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 15:28:37 GMT -5
In that case, someone should give her some talking points on the role and responsibilities of the VP...
|
|
The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 2,844
|
Post by The Stig on Oct 3, 2008 17:29:20 GMT -5
There were on the order of 42% more people who tuned in on the Palin/Biden debate last night than did so for the Obama/McCain debate. www.thrfeed.com/2008/10/vp-debate-ratin.htmlWow! I don't think the majority of those that tuned in were there to see and hear Biden. Depending on how viewers reacted to "cute" Sarah Palin and her anti-East Coast elites way of talkin', this could impact the election. Wishful thinking? Aw shucks, we'll just have to wait to see what happens over the next several days. And HoyaSinceBirth, your observation "Like it or not while talking like that doesn't mean you're unintelligent it sure makes you sound like you are." is a perfect illustration of snobbish East Coast elites saying that others that talk differently from you sound dumb. Might surprise you to learn there are many, many millions of intelligent people across the country that don't talk like you. Again, people in the "Heartland" don't talk like Palin does. The way she talks sounds just as stupid to them as it sounds to an East Coast liberal. You know what's a good example of East Coast snobbery? Thinking that all of non-East Coast/West Coast America is the same. The reality is pretty different. The type of voter you get in Minneapolis is very different than a Yoopper. The accent you hear in suburban Detroit is very different than what you get in rural North Dakota (us Cheeseheads insist that we have no accent). A colloquialism that makes sense in Madison will get you a blank stare in Dayton (bubbler is a good example). Where does Alaska fit into this? Absolutely nowhere. It might as well be a different country. I've been to Alaska, and aside from cold weather it has nothing in common with my home state. The places aren't the same, the people aren't the same, the way of talking isn't the same, and I imagine the values aren't very similar. So please stop accusing people of East Coast snobbery in one breath and lumping all of non-East/West Coast America together in the next. It's like saying that Hawaii and Florida are the same because they both have hot weather and lots of tourists.
|
|
Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
|
Post by Cambridge on Oct 3, 2008 17:37:16 GMT -5
This thread is a clear example of what has come to be called the snobbish, elite East Coast elite. Just review how many on this board took issue with Sarah Palin's use of language they do not recognize. Look at comments by Buffalo, Jack, Boz, SF, Bando, Giga, Ambassador and Stig, all poking fun at her language. She is running for public office. Every aspect of her personality is up for valuation. Personally, I believe the second highest office in the land requires a level of sophistication and respect for the office that should be displayed in the entire package. Just as everyone has heard, dress for the job you want, not the one you have. Similarly, if you are interviewing, speak and act in line with the position you want, not the one you are applying for. Based on Palin's speech, dress and tone, I'd assume she's applying for PTA president. It's called decorum, and she lacks it. It would be no different if a candidate got up and spoke in ebonics, southern twang, Massholish, valleygirl, Jerseyboy, or any other dubiously distinguishable "dialect." Regardless of the dialect, if we didn't think they were making an effort to sound professional and respectful of the office they were seeking, we would think they don't take the responsibility seriously. Don't get me wrong, they don't have to sound polished or even intellectual, but having grown up in the south I know the difference between a speaking in public/professional voice and a private/sitting on the porch voice. Quite frankly, I wouldn't use my sitting on the porch voice in a job interview, and I certainly wouldn't use it during a political campain for a national office. That would be unprofessional and inappropriate. Call me elitist, but I enjoy working for intelligent, educated, well-spoken, charismatic individuals. I respect their leadership and their ideas, whether or not I agree with them, because I can tell from their tone and speech that they have a rational, thoughtful and nuanced opinion. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm prejudiced against people who don't speak in a professional manner in a professional setting, but I dont' think its unreasonable for me to take issue with people that speak in a manner that is intentionally meant to denote their ignorance or simplicity. Palin is doing that. She is dropping her "g"s and, to use her own vernacular, "ramping up" the use of folksy annecdotes and sayings. When I hear folksy, vernacular-filled, annecdotal-based, superficial pandering, I don't hear someone who respects the office they are applying for, I hear someone who is in over their heads. I hear someone who will have to learn on the job, when it may be too late. I want the best person for the job. I guess that makes me an elitist. PS Is this rant sufficient to get me into the Elite East Coast Elite. I hope so, I've got some new spats I want to try out this weekend. I'll have by driver on standby to swing by the club in case I get the nod.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 3, 2008 18:08:36 GMT -5
To the extent that one can be opposed to the idea of electing someone who is not well-versed in the critical issues of our time and who does not articulate ideas in a mature way, I am unapologetically a member of this so-called elite group. It is sad that these basic criteria of national candidates are so controversial that we must now define those who support them as elite.
It is hard not to recognize the hypocrisy of people who claim that such a group exists in any event. What they are doing is carving out their own group of so-called "Joe Six Packs" who apparently do not live in the rural parts of NJ even. This kind of thing represents that saddest of Republican tactics/theocracy over the past 8 years. We were told in 2003 that opposing the Iraq War was unpatriotic, which led to divisive debate and a divided country. There were "Americans" and there were "the French." It was disgusting and immature then and remains so today.
(It is also hard to swallow now given the upbringing of Senators Obama and Biden. These gentlemen did not marry into any kind of elite group, do not live off inheritances, and do not abandon their wives.)
|
|
HoyaNyr320
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,233
|
Post by HoyaNyr320 on Oct 3, 2008 18:14:07 GMT -5
To the extent that one can be opposed to the idea of electing someone who is not well-versed in the critical issues of our time and who does not articulate ideas in a mature way, I am unapologetically a member of this so-called elite group. It is sad that these basic criteria of national candidates are so controversial that we must now define those who support them as elite. It is hard not to recognize the hypocrisy of people who claim that such a group exists in any event. What they are doing is carving out their own group of so-called "Joe Six Packs" who apparently do not live in the rural parts of NJ even. This kind of thing represents that saddest of Republican tactics/theocracy over the past 8 years. We were told in 2003 that opposing the Iraq War was unpatriotic, which led to divisive debate and a divided country. There were "Americans" and there were "the French." It was disgusting and immature then and remains so today. (It is also hard to swallow now given the upbringing of Senators Obama and Biden. These gentlemen did not marry into any kind of elite group, do not live off inheritances, and do not abandon their wives.) [Applause]
|
|
SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 747
|
Post by SirSaxa on Oct 3, 2008 18:23:57 GMT -5
The Stig, Cambridge and Ambassador all made strong points and did so quite well. Thank you gentlemen. When you get to the club ask Jeeves to direct you to the Library. Please join me there for a snifter of brandy.
We have had more than enough of folksy, not-very-smart "leadership" in the White House. Bush tried to pretend he wasn't part of the "east coast elite" even though he attended Yale and Harvard. It seems the Republicans have become the party of mediocrity, lowest common denominator and they substitute folksy accents and sayings for real education.
Mike Brown anyone? Alberto Gonzalez? Jack Snow? Dick Cheney? Tom Delay?
These are the kinds of people we want running the country? or a guy who finished 894 out of 899 in his class at the USNA -- a place to which he was admitted only because his father and grandfather were admirals?
No thank you. I will take highly educated "elites" -- from anywhere in the country -- over former beauty queens who think winking at the camera and spouting bumper slogans equates to being qualified to be the president of the United States of America.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 3, 2008 18:28:25 GMT -5
There were on the order of 42% more people who tuned in on the Palin/Biden debate last night than did so for the Obama/McCain debate. www.thrfeed.com/2008/10/vp-debate-ratin.htmlWow! I don't think the majority of those that tuned in were there to see and hear Biden. Depending on how viewers reacted to "cute" Sarah Palin and her anti-East Coast elites way of talkin', this could impact the election. Wishful thinking? Aw shucks, we'll just have to wait to see what happens over the next several days. Only celebrities covet this kind of media attention. It is also interesting to learn that this supposed distinction between "Joe Six Packs" and "Eastern elites" manifests itself behaviorally. As far as I can tell from last night's debate, there is a clear difference intellectually anyway.
|
|
Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
|
Post by Boz on Oct 3, 2008 18:41:30 GMT -5
To the extent that one can be opposed to the idea of electing someone who is not well-versed in the critical issues of our time and who does not articulate ideas in a mature way, I am unapologetically a member of this so-called elite group. It is sad that these basic criteria of national candidates are so controversial that we must now define those who support them as elite. It is hard not to recognize the hypocrisy of people who claim that such a group exists in any event. What they are doing is carving out their own group of so-called "Joe Six Packs" who apparently do not live in the rural parts of NJ even. This kind of thing represents that saddest of Republican tactics/theocracy over the past 8 years. We were told in 2003 that opposing the Iraq War was unpatriotic, which led to divisive debate and a divided country. There were "Americans" and there were "the French." It was disgusting and immature then and remains so today. (It is also hard to swallow now given the upbringing of Senators Obama and Biden. These gentlemen did not marry into any kind of elite group, do not live off inheritances, and do not abandon their wives.) Nice cheap shot about the marriage. As the saying goes, "You stay classy." As for me, I find it sad and disheartening that for all of the collective education and intelligence we claim to have on this board, how many of us simply do not understand what the word "elitist" means. If you believe that Obama cannot be considered an elitist because of his upbringing, or if McCain is more of an elitist because he is wealthy, then I'm sorry but you just don't understand it. I'm also sorry you think we live in a theocracy though. That's more or less another basic lack of understanding, IMO. Personally, it also sounds funny to me coming from a supporter of the man who is supposed to heal the world, stop the seas from rising, and posts videos of brainwashed children singing paeans to him on his campaign Web site. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
|
|
njhoya06
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 228
|
Post by njhoya06 on Oct 3, 2008 18:45:59 GMT -5
The Stig, Cambridge and Ambassador all made strong points and did so quite well. Thank you gentlemen. When you get to the club ask Jeeves to direct you to the Library. Please join me there for a snifter of brandy. We have had more than enough of folksy, not-very-smart "leadership" in the White House. Bush tried to pretend he wasn't part of the "east coast elite" even though he attended Yale and Harvard. It seems the Republicans have become the party of mediocrity, lowest common denominator and they substitute folksy accents and sayings for real education. Mike Brown anyone? Alberto Gonzalez? Jack Snow? Dick Cheney? Tom Delay? These are the kinds of people we want running the country? or a guy who finished 894 out of 899 in his class at the USNA -- a place to which he was admitted only because his father and grandfather were admirals? No thank you. I will take highly educated "elites" -- from anywhere in the country -- over former beauty queens who think winking at the camera and spouting bumper slogans equates to being qualified to be the president of the United States of America. Alberto Gonzales went to Harvard Law. John Snow got his PhD in econ from UVA.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 3, 2008 18:55:48 GMT -5
To the extent that one can be opposed to the idea of electing someone who is not well-versed in the critical issues of our time and who does not articulate ideas in a mature way, I am unapologetically a member of this so-called elite group. It is sad that these basic criteria of national candidates are so controversial that we must now define those who support them as elite. It is hard not to recognize the hypocrisy of people who claim that such a group exists in any event. What they are doing is carving out their own group of so-called "Joe Six Packs" who apparently do not live in the rural parts of NJ even. This kind of thing represents that saddest of Republican tactics/theocracy over the past 8 years. We were told in 2003 that opposing the Iraq War was unpatriotic, which led to divisive debate and a divided country. There were "Americans" and there were "the French." It was disgusting and immature then and remains so today. (It is also hard to swallow now given the upbringing of Senators Obama and Biden. These gentlemen did not marry into any kind of elite group, do not live off inheritances, and do not abandon their wives.) Nice cheap shot about the marriage. As the saying goes, "You stay classy." As for me, I find it sad and disheartening that for all of the collective education and intelligence we claim to have on this board, how many of us simply do not understand what the word "elitist" means. If you believe that Obama cannot be considered an elitist because of his upbringing, or if McCain is more of an elitist because he is wealthy, then I'm sorry but you just don't understand it. I'm also sorry you think we live in a theocracy though. That's more or less another basic lack of understanding, IMO. Personally, it also sounds funny to me coming from a supporter of the man who is supposed to heal the world, stop the seas from rising, and posts videos of brainwashed children singing paeans to him on his campaign Web site. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Some of us value loyalty in people and candidates, and McCain's actions were most disloyal and troubling. If we expect him to protect traditional marriage in this country (and I'm not sure that we do), these actions do not inspire confidence. I will be unafraid to make the point again because the "defense of marriage" issue is a traditional issue used by Republicans, and it was used in 2004 along the same lines against Kerry. It also is discussed in detail in at least one of McCain's five books, which are co-authored by a member of his campaign staff. It is not a question of class. It goes at the heart of the candidate just as it went to the character of President Clinton. It is also tough to take from a supporter of a candidate and party that ran around attacking Chelsea Clinton and making Edited jokes. Those were some heady times if you pardon my pun. So, your point is not very well taken to say the least. As to the theocracy point, I was being hyperbolic, but this unapologetic eastern elitist was taken aback by tactics in 2004 to deny John Kerry communion and to rile up the arena-style churches that we see on television with advertisements, and the like. That may just be a political difference, and I'm pleased that this kind of activity has quieted down to a large degree. Attacks on Obama's church, while perhaps deserved, likewise seemed out of place in a healthy body politic. This may be a semantic point, but I referred to "Republican theocracy." As was probably clear in my initial post, I distinguish between what Republicans have done politically over the last 8 years and what I hope this country is and espouses to become. Perhaps that clears up some confusion.
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,576
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Oct 3, 2008 18:58:00 GMT -5
I don't want average Americans as Pres and VP; I want people, who are above average. If that means grads of Harvard and Georgetown, so be it; Syracuse is stretching it. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Oct 3, 2008 19:03:38 GMT -5
I've alway found when people object too strongly about an observation you've probably hit the nail on the head, if that's not too folksy a way to put it.
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,576
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Oct 3, 2008 19:06:29 GMT -5
Sarah Palin's good points: she is the daughter of a track coach; the family ran 5K and 10K races, when they moved to Alaska; her first son is named Track; she was the point guard on the small school state champion bball team.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Oct 3, 2008 19:08:37 GMT -5
I've alway found when people object too strongly about an observation you've probably hit the nail on the head, if that's not too folksy a way to put it. I'm not sure any of the people you accused of being eastern elitist objected, and I even agreed with it in my post. You did hit a nail on the head. It just wasn't the right nail.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,468
Member is Online
|
Post by TC on Oct 3, 2008 19:13:21 GMT -5
I'm also sorry you think we live in a theocracy though. That's more or less another basic lack of understanding, IMO. Personally, it also sounds funny to me coming from a supporter of the man who is supposed to heal the world, stop the seas from rising, and posts videos of brainwashed children singing paeans to him on his campaign Web site. Let me get this straight - we don't live in a theocracy - but you're quoting an ad that subtly accused a candidate of being the antichrist?
|
|