hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 19, 2008 12:28:06 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else on this, and I believe, like Nevada, that he was talking about her approach. Even the announcers were aghast. On a related note (but taking a totally different approach), Misty May's father, who is a former volleyball star and her self-proclaimed toughest critic, was asked about her performance, and he mentioned two or three areas where he felt she could work to improve. It was pretty clear, however, that he wouldn't berate her publicly (of course, May/Walsh continue to win every match).
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 19, 2008 12:31:20 GMT -5
I might be totally off, but isn't pole vaulting one of those events where you get to go until you miss three times, regardless of when and where you miss? If so, then I was thinking that his context would have been pointing to which heights and at which points she chose them. Obviously, in an ideal run, you would nail all of the warm up vaults, and then nail something around your personal best on the first try, giving you 3 shots at clearing a record/medal height. At least that was what I was thinking he meant, or something along those lines. But even if I am right -- and that is admittedly only a guess in the first place -- then I still have no idea what the "65 and 85" reference meant.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 19, 2008 13:15:00 GMT -5
Wait....BMX is an olympic sport this year. Seriously?
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 19, 2008 13:19:20 GMT -5
Wait....BMX is an olympic sport this year. Seriously? I haven't seen any of it, or even heard anything about it. But, given what else they keep adding, I wouldn't be surprised. Although I have a hunch that would just add to the American stockpile of medals.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 19, 2008 14:29:02 GMT -5
I think the point is not exactly who these guys will be, but -- as I think is really your point -- that we have to get enough of the very top guys to dominate the way the team is now. That's my point. More than anything, it's why we didn't always win in the past. The World has caught up so that a team of 1 or 2 time All-Stars (Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand types), who not coincidentally tend to be one dimensional (scorers), won't consistently win. I disagree with you that we'll have a different set of elite in four years. Barring injury Kobe is elite in four years, and LeBron, Howard and Wade are elite for at least the next eight. This team could win without those guys -- but they've been the difference between the 2004 team and this dominance. (Remember, aside from the opening game loss, the US was as good as anyone in Athens -- the champ lost two games as well). If LeBron and Co. decide this was their duty, we're not sending an elite team in four years. It happened before -- that was the gradual erosion between 1992 and 2004.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 19, 2008 14:34:26 GMT -5
I think the point is not exactly who these guys will be, but -- as I think is really your point -- that we have to get enough of the very top guys to dominate the way the team is now. That's my point. More than anything, it's why we didn't always win in the past. The World has caught up so that a team of 1 or 2 time All-Stars (Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand types), who not coincidentally tend to be one dimensional (scorers), won't consistently win. I disagree with you that we'll have a different set of elite in four years. Barring injury Kobe is elite in four years, and LeBron, Howard and Wade are elite for at least the next eight. This team could win without those guys -- but they've been the difference between the 2004 team and this dominance. (Remember, aside from the opening game loss, the US was as good as anyone in Athens -- the champ lost two games as well). If LeBron and Co. decide this was their duty, we're not sending an elite team in four years. It happened before -- that was the gradual erosion between 1992 and 2004. I think you are twisting his words around a bit. I don't think his point was that these guys won't be elite in four years, but rather that we will have another group in the elite status as well. Four years ago, I don't think anyone had any real idea of just how good D. Wade was. You could make the same statement of Howard, although he had the size that always comes with the label of "unlimited potential" at the very least. Still, there have been many big guys that just never really truly developed to that elite status.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 20, 2008 10:29:53 GMT -5
Bolt is unreal. Breaks world record in 200 as well as 100. They say he joins the only runners to win the 100 and 200 in the same Olympics -- Jesse Owens, Carl Lewis. Pretty impressive.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 20, 2008 10:34:08 GMT -5
Hifi, we've seen the decline I talked about before. I see no reason why it'd be avoided.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 20, 2008 10:38:33 GMT -5
I think you are twisting his words around a bit. I don't think his point was that these guys won't be elite in four years, but rather that we will have another group in the elite status as well. Four years ago, I don't think anyone had any real idea of just how good D. Wade was. You could make the same statement of Howard, although he had the size that always comes with the label of "unlimited potential" at the very least. Still, there have been many big guys that just never really truly developed to that elite status. That is correct HiFi. Most, maybe all, of the guys on the current USA team whom we consider to be elite are likely to still be elite four years from now. And they will be joined by additional guys who will be considered elite at that time. By example, there are other guys who are considered elite today who are not in Beijing for one reason or another -- Duncan, Pierce and Garnett were cited specifically. And SF is correct. We need to get enough of those really elite guys to commit to being on Team USA if we are to continue winning. Will that happen? Who knows. SF correctly pointed out that after the first Dream Team, the participation by top guys started to drop off. I think (and I could be accused of wishful thinking) the continuing improvement of the rest of the world and the positive vibes and cachet from this team and Olympics will carry over to next time. That is, TEAM USA and Olympic basketball have become cool again. And, this is really the only legitimate world championship. Soccer has the World Cup, which has greater prestige and legitimacy than Olympic Soccer. Basketball has no such equivalent.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Aug 21, 2008 16:34:41 GMT -5
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2ndRyan
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Post by 2ndRyan on Aug 22, 2008 4:52:23 GMT -5
Watched the men's and women's 4 x 100 semifinals last night and saw the US drop the ball er, baton twice. Perhaps someone conversant with track could comment on why a large part of the field in these races seemed to be either DQ-ed or Did Not Finish. Why is the hand-off so difficult at this elite level. Why the Did Not Finish for a large number of teams?
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 7:51:49 GMT -5
Finally, the IOC and FIG are taking another look at the age of the Chinese women's gymnasts: EXCERPTSChina was asked to provide additional documents proving that five of the six members of its gold medal women's gymnastics team were old enough to compete in the Beijing Olympics. The U.S. Olympic Committee said it sent a letter to the IOC and the FIG on Friday, asking that the matter be resolved.
The International Olympic Committee said Friday there is still no proof anyone cheated, but it asked gymnastics officials to investigate "what have been a number of questions and apparent discrepancies," spokeswoman Giselle Davies said.
The International Gymnastics Federation has asked China to submit documents that will further substantiate the ages of He Kexin, Yang Yilin, Jiang Yuyuan, Deng Linlin and Li Shanshan. The federation said it would forward its conclusions to the IOC.
Earlier this month, the AP found registration lists previously posted on the Web site of the General Administration of Sport of China that showed both He and Yang were too young to compete. He was born Jan. 1, 1994, according to the 2005, 2006 and 2007 registration lists. Yang was born Aug. 26, 1993, according to the 2004, 2005 and 2006 registration lists. In the 2007 registration list, however, her birthday has changed to Aug. 26, 1992.
Even China's own Yang Yun, a double bronze medalist in Sydney, said during an interview aired on state broadcaster China Central Television that she was 14 during the 2000 Games.
Added Steve Penny, president of USA Gymnastics: "USA Gymnastics has always believed this issue needed to be addressed by the FIG and IOC. An investigation would help bring closure to the issue and remove any cloud of speculation from this competition." ESPN on Age Issues
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 8:02:45 GMT -5
W. Post on Age IssuesExcerptsThe IOC emphasized that it is not launching a formal investigation, but rather is seeking clarification from the International Federation of Gymnastics (FIG) and the Chinese gymnastics federation about continuing allegations that He was too young to compete. The IOC's decision was first reported by the Times of London.
"You shouldn't regard this as some kind of formal investigation," IOC spokeswoman Giselle Davies said at a news conference Friday morning. "Simply there have been questions on the table and discrepancies alluded to. . . . The IOC simply wants to do due diligence and work with the international federation to 100 percent clarify this situation and put it to rest."
FIG has consistently refused to investigate the matter, arguing that passport information supplied by China or any other country is sufficient.
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Post by dcc33 on Aug 22, 2008 8:31:06 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
I can't believe that Bolt's 200m run is not getting more attention here. That performance is far and away the best performance of any sport in this Olympics (my opinion of course, but I think its more impressive than Phelps, especially when you consider the 100 record as well). I thought that MJ's record would stand for another 20 years or so. To give you an idea of how strong that record is, Johnson ran 19.32, and the next fastest time by anyone else was Tyson Gay's 19.62. Even Johnson himself never ran near that time again (his next best was 19.66). Bolt is still very young, and has the potential to hold the 100, 200, and 400 meter records if he returns his focus to the 400, which his coach says is actually his best event. Thats just downright frightening if true.
The IOC's 'investigation' of the Chinese children/athletes is disgraceful and just furthers the image that they are a totally corrupt organization. It was decided long ago that these were China's olympics to win, rules be damned, so I guess its not totally surprising.
The US is having a bout of terrible luck in the track events, and its really a bummer that we don't get to see a 4x1 showdown between us and Jamaica. That could have been a great race.
I agree that the number of sports needs to be trimmed down substantially. Personally, I'd like to see everything cut besides track, swimming, and gymnastics, but that will never happen. We could at least get rid of things that are not really 'athletic' events - diving, badminton, ping pong, horse riding, shooting, etc. I have no rationale for that, other than that they just don't seem like they are olympic sports. Can you imagine the Greeks playing badminton? I know norms and events change with time, but thats just a step too far.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 22, 2008 8:42:40 GMT -5
As one who has suggested fewer events would make for a better Olympics, and even suggested Beach Volleyball should be a candidate for elimination because it is just a variations (admittedly a fun one) on REAL volleyball,
I must admit in the last couple days I watched the LIVE finals of women's and men's Beach Volleyball.
WOW. very exciting. Of course it helps when the finals have American teams and even more when they win. But, it was exciting.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 22, 2008 9:05:18 GMT -5
I just watched the 4-man kayaking finals this morning.
I still have no idea why this sport is needed in addition to regular crewing, but I'll say this:
Those guys can frakkin' book in those things!
I think I might have been able to waterski behind them.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 22, 2008 10:08:21 GMT -5
4 man kayak? See that was just straight out made up to add a medal sport.
Diving seems to be gymnastics with an easier landing.
A minimum requirement ougt to be you have to sweat substantially or it's not an olympic sport. Has anyone ever broken out in a sweat that wasn't heat/pressure related in ping pong?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 22, 2008 10:09:47 GMT -5
Bolt's performance was incredible. I actually think it's going to change sprinting forever, and we're going to see a lot more taller folks running where previously they were steered away because of conventional wisdom.
But there's not that much to talk about those races.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Aug 22, 2008 11:13:15 GMT -5
The bad fortunes of the track team are almost made up by how fantastic US teams in team sports are doing across the board. Gold medal match against Hungry for the water polo and same for the men's volleyball are huge performances. The teams that were supposed to do well have all at least medaled. It's not worth the paper it's printed on, but I maintain the US soccer team pulled the best performance you can every put in and not advance out of that kind of 4 team group. And a brutal group it was.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 22, 2008 11:44:57 GMT -5
4 man kayak? See that was just straight out made up to add a medal sport. Diving seems to be gymnastics with an easier landing. A minimum requirement ougt to be you have to sweat substantially or it's not an olympic sport. Has anyone ever broken out in a sweat that wasn't heat/pressure related in ping pong? As much as I appreciate your sentiment, there are multiple flaws with such an argument. Although as I think about it, some expert among you will probably prove me wrong. What I was going to say at first was that you don't sweat when you swim. Thinking about it, I could be totally wrong. In any case, you can't get rid of swimming, so if you don't sweat when you swim, then that definitive boundary can't work. More obviously however, would be that such a definition would imply even more events than it would get rid of. I know you didn't mean to imply the reverse, but still, if you use that definition, then there is implicit support for anything and everything in which you do sweat. Sorry, ballroom dancing should never have been there to begin with, and I would expect that experts would confirm that you can and in fact do sweat during competitive dancing. I will take their word for it. In all seriousness though, I can admit to having sweated while playing ping pong. In fact my wife and I still argue about who actually won that game. ;D Take it from me: if you do it right, you can certainly sweat during a ping pong game.
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