kghoya
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Post by kghoya on May 23, 2008 13:56:32 GMT -5
i hope nbadraft.net is right...i would actually start using my company's wizards tickets
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 23, 2008 14:05:06 GMT -5
So, since this topic is kind of everywhere, if you're the T-Wolves, who do you take? Lopez, in an attempt to find a center and allow Al Jefferson to play his natural position of PF? OJ Mayo and hope his upside is as high as some think? Bayless? What about Roy (so I have a reason to buy a TWolves jersey again)? What you have to worry about Lopez is that there are claims out there that he wants to play PF like he did in college.
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 23, 2008 18:09:04 GMT -5
Even if Lopez wanted to play PF, the Wolves' frontcourt is pretty trashbag at this point. They've gotta go big, so you go Lopez.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on May 23, 2008 18:12:35 GMT -5
Even if Lopez wanted to play PF, the Wolves' frontcourt is pretty trashbag at this point. They've gotta go big, so you go Lopez. Well, Al Jefferson did put up 21 and 11 this year and they just drafted Brewer at the 3, so one would hope Lopez could be a credible 5, no?
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 23, 2008 18:27:42 GMT -5
Wasn't Jefferson playing the 5? I'm just saying that in general they can fit Lopez in there.
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HealyHoya
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Victory!!!
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Post by HealyHoya on May 24, 2008 18:40:10 GMT -5
So before Chris Paul showed up guys like Tyson Chandler, David West, Jannero Pargo, Peja were absolutely playing to their potential, right? In fact, none of these guys had disappointed (Chandler, West) or had disappeared (Peja), right? And so it was just a coincidence that each of those players, as well as Mo Pete, Bonzi Wells, etc., suddenly -- en mass -- elevated their playing levels. Suddenly an average guy (West) is an all-star. Suddenly a disappointment (Chandler) plays like the dominant C everyone expected. Suddenly a below-the-radar G (Pargo) averages 10ppg. Suddenly a has-been (Peja) returns to being one of the most deadly shooters in the league.
And all of that, all of that, is a coincidence. Has nothing to do with the arrival of one of the most dynamic PGs seen in the NBA is the last several years. Nope, it wasn't CP3, it was a coincidence.
Yeah, so take Beasely because a 3/4 instantly elevates a team...instantly makes everyone other player better?
You take Rose at #1 or you just send your resume to the Clippers.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 24, 2008 20:36:46 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 25, 2008 7:51:26 GMT -5
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on May 25, 2008 13:20:22 GMT -5
nice props to roy i think he will surprise ok im dumb WHEN is the draft AND HOW MANY LOTTERY PICKS ARE THERE? thanks lichoya
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Post by youngjeezy on May 25, 2008 13:51:14 GMT -5
draft is june 26, fourteen lottery picks.
espn had something about the cavs maybe trading ilgauskas and varejao to the pacers for jermaine o'neil, which would leave their front court WIDE OPEN for a guy like roy. it'd be a shame to see him go there only to have lebron leave in 2010 though...
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on May 25, 2008 21:23:01 GMT -5
june fourteenth adn 14 lottery picks thanks ill try to remember that appreciate helping out best go hoyas
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on May 26, 2008 16:21:23 GMT -5
So before Chris Paul showed up guys like Tyson Chandler, David West, Jannero Pargo, Peja were absolutely playing to their potential, right? In fact, none of these guys had disappointed (Chandler, West) or had disappeared (Peja), right? And so it was just a coincidence that each of those players, as well as Mo Pete, Bonzi Wells, etc., suddenly -- en mass -- elevated their playing levels. Suddenly an average guy (West) is an all-star. Suddenly a disappointment (Chandler) plays like the dominant C everyone expected. Suddenly a below-the-radar G (Pargo) averages 10ppg. Suddenly a has-been (Peja) returns to being one of the most deadly shooters in the league. And all of that, all of that, is a coincidence. Has nothing to do with the arrival of one of the most dynamic PGs seen in the NBA is the last several years. Nope, it wasn't CP3, it was a coincidence. Yeah, so take Beasely because a 3/4 instantly elevates a team...instantly makes everyone other player better? You take Rose at #1 or you just send your resume to the Clippers. Why necessarily? Is it because Rose is going to be as good as CP3, or is it because somehow you always take the 1 over the 3/4? If it's the latter, then the argument makes no sense. You can't anecdotally pick the best pg in the league and then decide based on that, that 1's are always going to be better for teams than a wing player. Lebron hasn't made his team better? Kobe? KG? And highly picked 1's like TJ Ford haven't failed? If you want to say that Rose is that good, then go ahead. But you can't argue that based on CP3, that 1's somehow inherently are a better pick than other players. It's that kind of thinking in the NFL that makes people draft overrated QB's #1 overall just because they are the best QB in the draft.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 26, 2008 23:16:10 GMT -5
So before Chris Paul showed up guys like Tyson Chandler, David West, Jannero Pargo, Peja were absolutely playing to their potential, right? In fact, none of these guys had disappointed (Chandler, West) or had disappeared (Peja), right? And so it was just a coincidence that each of those players, as well as Mo Pete, Bonzi Wells, etc., suddenly -- en mass -- elevated their playing levels. Suddenly an average guy (West) is an all-star. Suddenly a disappointment (Chandler) plays like the dominant C everyone expected. Suddenly a below-the-radar G (Pargo) averages 10ppg. Suddenly a has-been (Peja) returns to being one of the most deadly shooters in the league. And all of that, all of that, is a coincidence. Has nothing to do with the arrival of one of the most dynamic PGs seen in the NBA is the last several years. Nope, it wasn't CP3, it was a coincidence. Yeah, so take Beasely because a 3/4 instantly elevates a team...instantly makes everyone other player better? You take Rose at #1 or you just send your resume to the Clippers. Why necessarily? Is it because Rose is going to be as good as CP3, or is it because somehow you always take the 1 over the 3/4? If it's the latter, then the argument makes no sense. You can't anecdotally pick the best pg in the league and then decide based on that, that 1's are always going to be better for teams than a wing player. Lebron hasn't made his team better? Kobe? KG? And highly picked 1's like TJ Ford haven't failed? If you want to say that Rose is that good, then go ahead. But you can't argue that based on CP3, that 1's somehow inherently are a better pick than other players. It's that kind of thinking in the NFL that makes people draft overrated QB's #1 overall just because they are the best QB in the draft. I took the post above as providing WHY he thought Rose should be picked--he makes others better. Michael Beasley is a great talent and can score. Derrick Rose can make a team better and get guys shots. Chris Paul is surrounded by mediocre players--and he made that team better. Marvin Williams has done what with Atlanta? What would Hawks be if they had Paul instead of Williams with the same roster? Guys like Rose don't come along very often--you can find guys like Beasley every year.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on May 27, 2008 6:17:50 GMT -5
From a Hawks fan: I don't care that Marvin Williams isn't a point guard. I just hate that he sucks as a basketball player. If he were a dynamic wing -- in the same universe as a baller as Paul or Deron Williams -- no one here in Atlanta would look back at that draft with such disdain.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 27, 2008 6:43:57 GMT -5
No offense to Chris Paul or the other truly elite point points, but how many great point guards have led their teams to NBA championships the past, say, 15 years? Do you consider Tony Parker truly elite? I don't but I will concede that if he is at the level he didn't get there until last season (which means the two championship Spurs teams he was on before then did not have the benefit of an elite pg). Is Chauncy Billups in that category? Perhaps. So who else during that run? Certainly not Derick Fisher, Jason Williams, pre-2007 Tony Parker (who drives to the hoop well but doesn't make anyone necessarily better), Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Ron Harper, BJ Armstrong....who else am I forgetting?
For years now the talking heads of sports have told us that a terrific big man is the best asset to have to win an NBA title. Now I'm hearing junk from talk radio nation that a point guard is as valuable to an NBA team as a quarterback is to an NFL squad. Don't think so. In fact the great point guards tend to go away empty-handed when it comes to NBA titles. The last truly great point guad to win a title was probably Isiah Thomas. So I'm not so sure about all the claims that Rose is the most logical pick for the #1 pick. By the way his passing has yet to impress me nor has his ability to drive and dish. He has great size and tremendous athleticism for his position. His defense is pretty good and he can get to the hole. Everything else is a question mark IMO.
As for Beasley...he's 6'8 and a possible headcase. I'm not sure he's a slamdunk either. I think its a tougher choice than many people are making it out to be.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 27, 2008 11:26:15 GMT -5
I don't care where a guy plays--I look at the player's talent/basketball smarts. Rose is a special player--kind of a new generation AI--who went #1 in Draft which you won't see happen but once a decade from a guard--and AI was a small guard. Rose has the speed/size/strength to step in and be a difference maker on a team that struggles to score with too much jump shooting and not enough draw/kick game. Memphis entire offense was draw/kick--and Rose did a fine job of knowing when to score and when to defer to teammates/or create offense. A guy like him automatically makes Tyrus Thomas a better player--because he will get the ball and get out and push it--and penetrate/create for Thomas to finish. The Bulls problem--they have a team full of jumpshooters--Hinrich thinks he's a good shooter--and he throws up crap--and he isn't quick enough to stay with people--so he's often in foul trouble and their team suffers because of it. With Rose--you get someone who is same size as Hinrich--quicker, a better offensive player, and a better PG. He's not going to suffer due to lack of quickness/speed and he'll be able to get to the lane--which is why someone like Tony Parker is valuable. They get to paint--and if your guards get into the paint--you get your team easier scoring opportunties/cleaner looks at hoop. So for a team like Spurs that isn't full of offensive firepower--I'd say Parker makes them better by getting guys open shots--he can't make the shots for them--Bowen, Finley, etc...but he gets them looks.
I get what MCI is saying-but I think Rose is a difference maker for the Bulls or any team. He's got the ability to carry a team in various ways--and if one aspect of his game isn't on--he can still impact a game--where I'm not sure Beasley can do that.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 27, 2008 12:22:35 GMT -5
While I don't think the big man is obsolete, I offer three arguments in favor of Rose:
1. Recent rule changes (handchecking, zone D) have opened up the style of play in favor of penetrating and dishing guards. It's not a coincidence that Steve Nash and Chris Paul are so effective -- they are good, but the game has also been intentionally changed to their benefit.
2. Big men are still immensely valuable, but a large part of that has to do with their defensive value, ability to get easy buckets and the high efficiency of low post scoring. Beasley will get the offensive rebounds that make a big man so effective, but I don't know if he has the size or desire to be a defensive game-changer, which is where the ultimate value of a big man lies. Add in that in the NBA he will likely be more Chris Bosh than Tim Duncan offensively, and I'm not sure Beasley is what you mean by a "Big Man."
3. I worry a bit about Beasley's complete effort level. Less in a Derrick Coleman/Shareef Abdur-Rahim sort of way and more in a Amare "I'd have an NBA title by now if I tried on defense" sort of way. Rose doesn't seem to have that issue to me.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 27, 2008 13:04:59 GMT -5
Version 2.0 of the Chad "I love Euros" Ford Mock Draft [/url] is up at ESPN.com. Roy is still projected as going to the Jazz, with the same blurb I think: The skinny: Is there a better fit for Hibbert than Utah? He needs a team that excels in half-court sets. His size and scoring ability make him an asset as long as you don't ask him to run the floor or play 40 minutes a game.I don't get this nonsense about playing 40 minutes a game. You know how many players averaged 40 minutes a game this year in the NBA? 3. Iverson, Joe Johnson and LeBron. How many centers averaged even 30 mpg? Only 15, and that's including people like Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson, Amare, Al Horford and Rasheed as centers. I know Roy's not suited to play with the Suns or the Warriors, but c'mon.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on May 27, 2008 19:27:42 GMT -5
Ford also thinks Alexander is the "sleeper" of the draft. That is true if by Sleeper he means sleeping in Fort Wayne with Mad Antz in the NBADL in two years.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 27, 2008 19:29:26 GMT -5
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