moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by moe09 on May 28, 2008 11:42:10 GMT -5
I'm not saying that we're actually under the bus in any way from his comments. I'm just saying figuratively, that's a slap at Georgetown.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on May 28, 2008 11:45:57 GMT -5
Lots of venom for JR. As I said about him during the season, if we were a less-talented team and a faster pace, he could be like Braswell. i couldn't disagree more. while braswell's game had severe deficiencies, it was light years better than rivers' game. braswell could create his own shot and carry the hoyas at times. there is no way in hades that rivers could carry this team offensively for more than 30 seconds. that being said, i rooted like crazy for rivers and i wish he stuck it out as i think he had the potential to be a consistent contributor offensively. in the 2 years he suited up for the hoyas, rivers' offensive game would be classified as woeful. Agree with you Hoya50. Braswell would seriously contend for a starting spot this upcoming season... you'd have to probably have to give it to him over Wright at this juncture. Any way you slice it, Rivers would be fighting for bench time with JC.
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 28, 2008 11:47:30 GMT -5
And, yeah, there's no doubt that Bras was better than Rivers. Didn't really think there was even much of a comparison there.
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casualhoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by casualhoya on May 28, 2008 11:51:09 GMT -5
good riddance.
casually.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on May 28, 2008 12:00:22 GMT -5
I would compare Rivers w/Joseph Tominim(sp)...
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on May 28, 2008 12:01:40 GMT -5
touomou
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 12:09:34 GMT -5
I feel sorry for him. I don't believe he is going to find what he expects. It is obvious that he feels that his talents weren't properly utilized here. He made a point that he can shoot from mid range. What he should have said was that he hoped that he could help Indiana win games. Neither Jeff Green or Roy were big scorers, but Jeff has already demonstrated his value in his first year in the NBA. Roy is going to surprise a lot of people as well. I suspect that PE Jr., will get drafted in the second round.
Lastly, I can assure you all that these defections are NOT going to hurt recruiting. It will help us get the proper players, players who want to develop all aspects of their game and to be a part of a winning team.
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Post by strummer8526 on May 28, 2008 12:12:24 GMT -5
don't know if anyone got a chance to see the segment on Rivers on Sportscenter. Says he's transferring to Indiana because he doesn't only want to be known as a defensive specialist. They then proceed to show to show three hightlights... the first a fall away 12 foot prayer that he made against Pitt, the next a driving lay up against Pitt again only he MISSES and Ewing is there for the follow up dunk, the last a made shot from the elbow against UCON. ESPN really had to dig deep in their files and couldn't even muster up three made buckets. Yeah. They spent 30 seconds talking about him, and Ewing had by far the best highlight in it.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on May 28, 2008 16:09:27 GMT -5
I would compare Rivers w/Joseph Tominim(sp)... I actually think the touomou comparison is a good one... although I'd have to give a slight nod to Rivers on defense and the definite edge to touomou on offense. By his senior year, Joseph could actually stroke it from 3.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 28, 2008 16:32:47 GMT -5
Rivers is pretty much Ray Reed part II. Ray had a pretty good run at a smaller school; we'll see how Rivers does. Both brought great defense to the table.
Kevin Braswell is Georgetown's career steals and assists leader, right? Yes, he did it when we had lesser talent and was certainly a bit of a gunner. But comparing Rivers to him? Braswell probably had more point in 2 games than Rivers had in two years. They aren't similar in really any way.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on May 28, 2008 17:16:48 GMT -5
Rivers is pretty much Ray Reed part II. Ray had a pretty good run at a smaller school; we'll see how Rivers does. Both brought great defense to the table. Kevin Braswell is Georgetown's career steals and assists leader, right? Yes, he did it when we had lesser talent and was certainly a bit of a gunner. But comparing Rivers to him? Braswell probably had more point in 2 games than Rivers had in two years. They aren't similar in really any way. A BIT of a gunner? Come on, people. Bras was a good defensive player (well, good at getting steals anyway) and a career 36.9% shooter (31% from three). Bras shot 33% as a freshman. He just took way more shots and was the default starter. No kidding he had more points than Rivers since he ran the show. Rivers is really getting killed here. The reason he's not here is he's not an efficient shooter and needs to shoot more to put up numbers which the system would not allow. But think about if he starts last year. No really, if there's no Wallace or Wright and we have to put Rivers out there what happens? Does he score 3ppg and we just lose 8 points every game? Does he shoot exactly 30%? I would say it's more likely he puts up 9-12 like any other starter but the team is worse off as he does it on poor shooting that's in the low to mid-30s. You take the role the team gives you. Rivers is saying pretty much exactly that. On another team, he can gun and get his points even if he's shooting terribly AND he can be a defensive stopper. That would mean he'd be Bras somewhere else. Ray Reed is too small to be the main guard in a big conference. Rivers is not. That's why he's going to one of the most storied NCAA basketball programs and Ray ended up at one of the most storied NCAA BASEBALL programs.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on May 28, 2008 17:41:45 GMT -5
Hard to believe we're talking Kevin Braswell and Jeremiah Rivers in the same breath here. Not the same type of player, not the same skill set, not fair to compare them.
Also disagree that Rivers is Ray Reed part II. That's actually an insult to Rivers.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on May 28, 2008 18:01:42 GMT -5
Hard to believe we're talking Kevin Braswell and Jeremiah Rivers in the same breath here. Not the same type of player, not the same skill set, not fair to compare them. Also disagree that Rivers is Ray Reed part II. That's actually an insult to Rivers. thank you for saying this...
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Post by bbb71 on May 28, 2008 18:13:38 GMT -5
To compare the offensive capabilities of Rivers and Braswell by looking at their shooting percentages is pretty questionable. One must remember that Braswell was either the first or second option and the focus of much defensive attention....hence, its not surprising his fg% was not great. Rivers on the other hand, put up that 30% or so shooting wide open jumpers for the most part.
And, if one were to examine their respective offensive talents, one would find that Braswell is a far craftier player with massive advantages in handles, vision, and shooting ability. Rivers certainly has the size advantage, but thats about it.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on May 28, 2008 20:08:27 GMT -5
This is good for everyone. It saves JTIII from having to give him a chance before putting Clark ahead of him and then having to deal with the inevitable sulking. Now you start practice with the rotation almost set in stone.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on May 28, 2008 20:48:17 GMT -5
Now, like I said, if he feels that Crean and company will help him develop better, more power to him. But it isn't like Crean's system is going to make him an effective offensive player. I try to stay out of the transfer threads, but this quote pretty much sums up the way I feel about the Rivers situation. The next question is, how good is player development at Georgetown under JTIII? Off the top of my head, players that improved their game signficantly include: Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green, Ashanti Cook, and Jon Wallace. One of those guys (Jeff) turned into one of the most efficient players in college basketball under JTIII. On the other hand, the following players did not change/improve their game much during their time on the Hilltop (thought that's certainly not to say that they weren't good/great players): Brandon Bowman and ... who else? Maybe TC? It should also be pointed out that Dajuan Summers, a player whose development pattern has been criticized on this board (including by me), actually improved in practically every statistical category last season. It's been pointed out by JerryLH in other threads that JTIII had a good track record of developing talent before he came to Georgetown as well. Is Tom Crean's track record good/better? As far as Marquette's current guards are concerned, I would say that Jerel McNeal has become a better player, but Dominic James has not. Perhaps JR likes how Crean has developed McNeal, another guard with a reputation as a defense-first player. Other than that, I can't rationalize his decision in terms of player development. IMO, Georgetown's player development record has been very good since 04-05, and has certainly been much better than it was during the Esherick era.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on May 28, 2008 21:15:54 GMT -5
Now, like I said, if he feels that Crean and company will help him develop better, more power to him. But it isn't like Crean's system is going to make him an effective offensive player. I try to stay out of the transfer threads, but this quote pretty much sums up the way I feel about the Rivers situation. The next question is, how good is player development at Georgetown under JTIII? Off the top of my head, players that improved their game signficantly include: Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green, Ashanti Cook, and Jon Wallace. One of those guys (Jeff) turned into one of the most efficient players in college basketball under JTIII. On the other hand, the following players did not change/improve their game much during their time on the Hilltop (thought that's certainly not to say that they weren't good/great players): Brandon Bowman and ... who else? Maybe TC? It should also be pointed out that Dajuan Summers, a player whose development pattern has been criticized on this board (including by me), actually improved in practically every statistical category last season. It's been pointed out by JerryLH in other threads that JTIII had a good track record of developing talent before he came to Georgetown as well. Is Tom Crean's track record good/better? As far as Marquette's current guards are concerned, I would say that Jerel McNeal has become a better player, but Dominic James has not. Perhaps JR likes how Crean has developed McNeal, another guard with a reputation as a defense-first player. Other than that, I can't rationalize his decision in terms of player development. IMO, Georgetown's player development record has been very good since 04-05, and has certainly been much better than it was during the Esherick era. Sort of, but one major reason we don't have any examples of players who didn't develop well is because they all transferred. Guibunda, Thornton, Spann, Egerson, Macklin, and Rivers have all transferred. Green, Hibbert, Wallace, Sapp, and Summers (wow that's almost like a Final Four starting lineup right there) have not. You can't develop players who aren't here, nor can you assess how they were developed. It seems to be up or out the last few years, and Rivers and Mack seem to think they haven't improved enough to move up so they're out. Maybe that's not a bad thing for them. If they think they're career backups and want to start (and at two big programs mind you) they might not be as foolish as you think.
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Post by hoyalawyer on May 28, 2008 21:22:05 GMT -5
I don't think they're foolish at all. They didn't like it here for whatever reasons. Let 'em go, they don't want to be here, why keep them? Us begging to keep them would be foolish.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 29, 2008 4:40:27 GMT -5
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on May 29, 2008 13:47:13 GMT -5
Good for Baby Doc. Let's move on.
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