|
Post by williambraskyiii on May 9, 2008 13:26:30 GMT -5
Strummer just got SERVED by sfhoya.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on May 9, 2008 13:44:40 GMT -5
If there's one thing I've learned on here, it's that someone will. All in good fun. If this isn't the place to say what you think about random topics and fight over it for a while, then where? Law school? These are more fun.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on May 9, 2008 13:56:24 GMT -5
I literally hate it when I agree with RDF so I'll hold my nose and just do it. At any other time I'd say that, at my age, I consider 33 year-olds to be just immature kids.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,743
Member is Online
|
Post by SFHoya99 on May 9, 2008 14:06:43 GMT -5
Ed, when life expectancy was below 40, was almost everyone in the world too young to make their own decisions?
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,294
|
Post by prhoya on May 9, 2008 14:09:04 GMT -5
Could this bode well for Jerimiah's younger brother? Doesn't hurt.
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
Post by PopeJohn2 on May 9, 2008 15:15:49 GMT -5
is it just me, or does the line "be happy in a different system" seem to you that jeremiah didnt like the princetown or blamed the princetown for his offensive problems? if so, then it cant be good for his kid brothers chances of coming here.
bigger picture, i am worried that 2 guys are leaving and may be saying that the princetown is not good for their future prospects. whether this is a legitimate statement or whether it is a lame excuse for their own personal talent limitations is irrelevant as either way it may make future recruits think twice. i imagine that not seeing your name alongside gordon, mayo, beasley, love, et al when you used to on rivals has some impact. not everyone is like green a top 200 player who goes on to become the #5 pick. we are getting top 25 high school players that are only human and at some level may envy the coverage their peers are getting.
furthermore, i might add that i cant imagine it helps improve player loyalty at all when players read this board and see some of the scathing crap people say about them. this board is a double edged sword that can backfire post wisely.
|
|
rosslynhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,595
|
Post by rosslynhoya on May 9, 2008 15:38:02 GMT -5
is it just me, or does the line "be happy in a different system" seem to you that jeremiah didnt like the princetown or blamed the princetown for his offensive problems? if so, then it cant be good for his kid brothers chances of coming here. bigger picture, i am worried that 2 guys are leaving and may be saying that the princetown is not good for their future prospects. whether this is a legitimate statement or whether it is a lame excuse for their own personal talent limitations is irrelevant as either way it may make future recruits think twice. i imagine that not seeing your name alongside gordon, mayo, beasley, love, et al when you used to on rivals has some impact. not everyone is like green a top 200 player who goes on to become the #5 pick. we are getting top 25 high school players that are only human and at some level may envy the coverage their peers are getting. furthermore, i might add that i cant imagine it helps improve player loyalty at all when players read this board and see some of the scathing crap people say about them. this board is a double edged sword that can backfire post wisely. We can reinvigorate some of the old mid-season debate regarding the extent to which there was a Princeton offense this year. That is to say, without a high-post threat like Green, our offensive set up didn't really compare to the system mentality of 06-07. If Baby Doc had wanted to do his own thing on the offensive end of the court, he had every opportunity to do so. Wright certainly did many times when he was on the court. I really don't know what kind of "system" Rivers thinks he can find that he'd fit into any better. He was averaging almost 20 minutes a game, which seems about right for someone whose contributions on one half of the game fairly compensated for his lack of productivity on the other end. You could see the pain and frustration on Rivers' face after each missed shot. More often than not, he was immediately benched after each of those pug-ugly shots everyone's been reminiscing about here. I think that that level of emotion was one of the things I really liked about him though. While he was on the court, he'd meanery up and put on his tough defender gameface, but he actually looked happy when he was called off the bench and unhappy when he was sent back there. He really seemed to enjoy playing basketball, a la Bryon and Omar, to the extent that I completely forgot that he had been a well-regarded recruit at one point. Thank you for posting the Doc Rivers comments; it's somewhat reassuring to think that even his dad is willing to acknowledge that Jeremiah's reasons for transferring are illogical, rather than reflecting some fundamental or systemic flaw within the Thompson's Hoyas.
|
|
hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,420
|
Post by hoopsmccan on May 9, 2008 15:41:50 GMT -5
furthermore, i might add that i cant imagine it helps improve player loyalty at all when players read this board and see some of the scathing crap people say about them. this board is a double edged sword that can backfire post wisely. Every major school has at least one board...some better, many worse. I imagine HiFi and his inbred ilk won't be giving VM a pass if he doesn't play better. Also, these "kids" have scouts and scout wannabees discussing their strengths and flaws in public forums from an early age. Now all of a sudden they come to GU, have the student body generally juggle their nuts (figuratively and literally), and they are going to go to pieces because some 30 yr old frustrated lawyer they never met says they can't shoot or aren't athletic enough. Post wisely? Give me a break. I never have, never will. I love how some people think this board has some great reach past the losers that post here... hm
|
|
PDRHoya99
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 766
|
Post by PDRHoya99 on May 9, 2008 15:59:24 GMT -5
Post wisely? Give me a break. I never have, never will. I love how some people think this board has some great reach past the losers that post here... Well said! Although I heard a rumor that Rivers and Ticket are leaving because after two years in the program they still can't understand lic. However, they've both chosen to blame the system, since they know everybody would rush to lic's defense.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on May 9, 2008 16:02:20 GMT -5
RDF, You're better off ignoring strummer. Remember, in his mind, these aren't kids with a life of their own -- they are simply players who owe him for rooting for them and they are here solely on this planet to make him happy by winning Georgetown games. I'm not shocked he's going into law -- since he wanted the school to basically sue for their tuition back. It's too bad there's not a maturity section on the bar. Your ability to ignore my actual points is just amazing. Maybe if I put them in a list, you'll follow them better: - If you're better off ignoring me, then just do that next time instead of contorting what I say in an attempt to insult me.
- I'm not questioning whether they have "lives of their own." They obviously have lives of their own. But considering all the benefits that go along with playing a major sport (scholarships, notoriety, someday a potentially huge salary), there are also costs: you get media attention, you get schmucks like me talking about you online, and you get people questioning your game and your decisions. That comes with the territory. Sorry. If players don't want "their own lives" being fodder for people to talk about, then athletics is the wrong field to be in.
- The players don't owe me anything. I've said this a dozen times before. But they owe the entire Georgetown community. They owe the people who pay to go to school at a place where the players go for free. Period. Who is paying for their housing if not Georgetown alums, students, donors, etc.? Players benefit from what Georgetown gives them. They owe something in return--not to ME, but to GEORGETOWN.
- I honestly don't care why these players are on the planet. I'm not concerned with the cosmic existence of Vernon Macklin, trust me. But they're certainly not here for me. They only become relevant to my life when the school to which my parents have paid tens of thousands of dollars turns around and uses that money to train, transport, uniform, etc. these players. And when those players walk away from the commitment that the school has made to them, it bothers me, plain and simple.
- If all I wanted them to do was win Georgetown games, I'd be happy for Vernon and Rivers to leave because they didn't do a whole lot of "winning" us anything, especially in light of the talent that we can get in their place. But I'd even be happy and support their inferior talent if it is loyal to the program. When they walk away from it, I don't feel at all bad when someone on here rips them for their basketball flaws.
- PICK ONE: Are these (1) Kids, who should be treated gently like if we say something mean about them, it will bruise their little hearts (But in this case, when they make a bad decision, SOMEONE--like maybe Jeremiah's FATHER--should try to correct that decision), OR (2) Adults, who can do what they want but should also be held accountable for their commitments and should be able to take it when someone points out their failings. I think they're adults. Let's treat them like adults.
- Just because you disagree with what I'm saying doesn't mean it's an immature position. If you bothered to understand it rather than summarizing in your own twisted fashion, maybe that would help.
- I never said Georgetown should sue for tuition. A law student expressing dissatisfaction about something doesn't mean he's calling for a lawsuit. Although that does fit nicely into the incorrect image you have of what I'm saying.
Instead of throwing punches back at anything I say, you throw weak, off-top bitch slaps in posts directed to other people. Let's go back to your analogy between Vernon Macklin and an average Georgetown student on need-based financial aid. Yeah, that was a good one. No holes in that.
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on May 9, 2008 16:04:08 GMT -5
furthermore, i might add that i cant imagine it helps improve player loyalty at all when players read this board and see some of the scathing crap people say about them. this board is a double edged sword that can backfire post wisely. Every major school has at least one board...some better, many worse. I imagine HiFi and his inbred ilk won't be giving VM a pass if he doesn't play better. Also, these "kids" have scouts and scout wannabees discussing their strengths and flaws in public forums from an early age. Now all of a sudden they come to GU, have the student body generally juggle their nuts (figuratively and literally), and they are going to go to pieces because some 30 yr old frustrated lawyer they never met says they can't shoot or aren't athletic enough. Post wisely? Give me a break. I never have, never will. I love how some people think this board has some great reach past the losers that post here... hm 100% agree. And maybe part of the problem with our offensive system this year is that Vernon and Rivers were part of it.
|
|
moe09
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,101
|
Post by moe09 on May 9, 2008 16:06:30 GMT -5
Yeah, gotta agree with hoops. Fact is that there are boards at just about every other school and I'm sure many of them aren't nearly as kind as this board.
|
|
PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
|
Post by PopeJohn2 on May 9, 2008 16:57:27 GMT -5
so what that other schools have boards. other schools have transfers too. im not saying the boards are responsible for transfers, but i am objecting to the double standard of some posters.
its one thing for posters here to criticize players. its another thing for those same posters to then get so amped up that that player wasnt more "loyal" to the school. go ahead and blast players, but then dont feel surprised if they leave.
like it or not, this board does have reach beyond the "losers that post here". many more read without posting and these posts help set the tone for how players are viewed by the fans. the way players feel about the school and the environment is in large part due to the way fans feel about them.
i saw a number of bad plays and missed layups and chunk-o-shots during the limited minutes tyler got and he got nothing but praise from this board. he stays 4 years. macklin and rivers were regularly roasted and they transfer. you do the math (if you can). or dont see it. i dont care. just quit your griping when they transfer and somehow feeling entitled to their loyalty.
im Editeded by the recent departures. they hurt our team not just on the court. if you care more about the program than using this board to vent your negative criticism, at the very least go easy on the players until they are juniors when they are less likely to transfer. sheesh.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on May 9, 2008 18:46:02 GMT -5
Strummer, do you feel the same way about Jeff? Or AI?
|
|
|
Post by jld54 on May 9, 2008 19:30:15 GMT -5
Time to lock this thread? Enough sniping already....
|
|
|
Post by strummer8526 on May 9, 2008 21:37:05 GMT -5
Strummer, do you feel the same way about Jeff? Or AI? With Jeff, I think he did so much for Georgetown, and he continues to be such an ambassador for the school that he continues to give back even though he's not playing for us specifically. You can look at my posts from the time he was leaving, though: I did say that he should stay, and I was annoyed that he was willing to leave. But he does so much for Georgetown. From everything I've heard, he responds to Georgetown fans at games. If I could choose, I would say that he should have stayed like Roy, but I can appreciate what he's done for GU. Leaving to go to another team is ENTIRELY different for an array of obvious reasons. AI is different in a few ways. First, I was 10 years old when he was a Hoya, so I wasn't a fan when he was around. I really don't have much of an opinion of him. To the extent that people associate him with GU, that's nice. But I'm kind of ambivalent. Second, my impression (and I could be wrong) is that when Thompson went after AI, he knew that he wasn't getting a four year player. That's why my opinion could be different of Monroe. We knew he's #1, and in today's college game, #1 can walk after a year. That's expected. I guess my biggest issue is that the school has reasonable expectations of what a player will bust his ass to do for the program. And the player has reasonable expectations of what the school will do to make him a better player. With Jeff, he lived up to his end by being a representative in the League. AI, I think our expectations were probably different, and so everyone knew it was a 1 year relationship. Vernon and Rivers, we gave playing time, coaching from one of the best, and a chance to be two of the leaders in the next 1-2 years. They have not at all returned with what was expected of them--another 2 years of commitment to this team. If it turned out that GU was providing inadequately for its players, then I would agree with their departure. But as long as we assume that GU lives up to its side of the expected situation, then I just think there should be something in return.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 9, 2008 21:49:29 GMT -5
Leaving the sniping aside (Plato's Republic it is not), does anyone else out there prefer to watch players who want to be at GU? It would lessen my enjoyment of the team/program if I knew I was watching guys who didn't want to be here.
We've been spoiled in many ways by our class of 2008. Not only did they want to be here. They wanted to turn the program around and make history.
|
|
|
Post by jerseyhoya34 on May 9, 2008 21:55:03 GMT -5
Strummer, do you feel the same way about Jeff? Or AI? With Jeff, I think he did so much for Georgetown, and he continues to be such an ambassador for the school that he continues to give back even though he's not playing for us specifically. You can look at my posts from the time he was leaving, though: I did say that he should stay, and I was annoyed that he was willing to leave. But he does so much for Georgetown. From everything I've heard, he responds to Georgetown fans at games. If I could choose, I would say that he should have stayed like Roy, but I can appreciate what he's done for GU. Leaving to go to another team is ENTIRELY different for an array of obvious reasons. AI is different in a few ways. First, I was 10 years old when he was a Hoya, so I wasn't a fan when he was around. I really don't have much of an opinion of him. To the extent that people associate him with GU, that's nice. But I'm kind of ambivalent. Second, my impression (and I could be wrong) is that when Thompson went after AI, he knew that he wasn't getting a four year player. That's why my opinion could be different of Monroe. We knew he's #1, and in today's college game, #1 can walk after a year. That's expected. I guess my biggest issue is that the school has reasonable expectations of what a player will bust his ass to do for the program. And the player has reasonable expectations of what the school will do to make him a better player. With Jeff, he lived up to his end by being a representative in the League. AI, I think our expectations were probably different, and so everyone knew it was a 1 year relationship. Vernon and Rivers, we gave playing time, coaching from one of the best, and a chance to be two of the leaders in the next 1-2 years. They have not at all returned with what was expected of them--another 2 years of commitment to this team. If it turned out that GU was providing inadequately for its players, then I would agree with their departure. But as long as we assume that GU lives up to its side of the expected situation, then I just think there should be something in return. Not to thread jack on the AI point, but I think he has more than upheld his end of the bargain if you adjust expectations reasonably based on his life. Here's a guy who grew up with raw sewage in his home and spent time in jail. His background was spotty at best. Sure, he's had his share of run-ins and problems since leaving, but compare those with what would have been likely had he not come through Georgetown.
|
|
MEGAFAN
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 649
|
Post by MEGAFAN on May 10, 2008 2:20:28 GMT -5
I'd like to set one thing straight, for the record: the tuition that our parents (may) pay for us to attend Georgetown does NOT go directly to funding other students, be they student athletes or financial aid recipients, let alone members of the Georgetown basketball team.
There are few things that Edited me off more than the implication by some Georgetown students that since their parents pay for them to attend Georgetown, that somehow they are subsidizing the tuition of those students who may not pay their way in full, be they basketball players or not. This does not merely represent a vast oversimplification of things, but rather a failure to understand the way modern National University finances work.
For starters, National Universities such as Georgetown actually need to subsidize the cost of educating even those students whose parents pay upwards of $40,000 per year in tution and room/board, let alone those who pay less/none.
Even though Georgetown has only (fairly) recently focused on significantly upping their endowment, there are numerous forms of funding, including money received from the government, from non-profits, from donation funds, etc. that go into sustaining a University such as ours.
While it probably would not be possible for Georgetown to exist if the bulk of students did not pay for all/most of their tuition, the notion that those who pay are subsidizing the tuition of others, and moreover, the attitude that those who don't pay in full should be grateful to those who do, is ridiculous.
Of course tuition money may indirectly flow to help fund other students, be they student athletes or not, and to some degree, all incoming money contributes across a variety of fronts for everyone that makes up the Georgetown community.
However, have you ever considered that the same indirect flow of "capital" could be said to occur from those who do not pay in full to those who do. How? Well, even though admissions decisions are technically separated from financial aid awards, this does not change the fact that a significant number of Georgetown students are admitted (in part) based on legacy or on the impact that their families contributions to Georgetown have made over the years, rather than on pure academic merit. I am not implying that they are not worthy, as I believe legacy is important, as well as donations, but I would still argue (controversially, of course) that paying students benefit more from the best and brightest of their classmates who are receiving significant aid, than vice versa. Why, because this minority of students disproportionately contribute to increasing the value of everyone's Georgetown degree.
A prime example of this is the Georgetown basketball team. Who do you think adds more value (per person) to your Georgetown degree than a basketball player? If you average every single member of the basketball team over the history of the program, let alone the Thompson(s) era, and compare that to the rest of the student body, wouldn't you say that on average the basketball player has added multiples more value of the school than the average non-basketball player?
You can start by looking at the hard numbers, such as how much money the basketball team generates for the school in the form of money donated to the program, fees from television, merchandising, etc. But moreover, if you factor in what a tremendous benefit Georgetown basketball is to the student and alumni community in so many intangible ways, only then can they be truly appreciated for the "value" they create.
The branding power alone impacts not only our applicant pool, but also the general perception of Georgetown nation wide and across the globe, as well as serves to strengthen the alumni community and drive funding. I would say there are very few things that contribute (both tangibly and intangibly) to the University's representation as much as Georgetown basketball.
So next time some naive student tries to make some pompous, ignorant argument about how grateful a Georgetown basketball player should be (to them or their parents), tell them to shut the #@%# up!
This is of course NOT to say that every player who dons the uniform should not be extremely proud. Of course they should be grateful for the privilege and opportunity to represent Georgetown, but this privilege has nothing to do with you or your parents money!!!
|
|
hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
|
Post by hoyaLS05 on May 10, 2008 3:30:53 GMT -5
|
|