RDF
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Post by RDF on May 25, 2008 22:23:15 GMT -5
Whomever wins this year's title--will be the worst champion I've seen. It's not that there haven't been some great games/great performances but this so called "parity" is anything but--how many blowout/weak ass efforts do hoop fans have to endure from teams? The Pistons and Lakers mailed in the games the past two days and if you don't want to be competitive--how about just forfeiting--I mean it might show more effort then some of the players are on the court. What a weak postseason and failure of mental toughness by teams. Losing is one thing-getting your ass lit up to the point games are laughers simply by where you are playing or if you fall behind? Come on--it's PRO ball---show some toughness. Let's see some competitive basketball from here on out!
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 27, 2008 23:25:13 GMT -5
Wow. Classic NBA no call at the end of the Spurs-Lakers game tonight. Brent Barry has to learn to bleed more convincingly.
That said, the Spurs looked tired and did not deserve to win.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 28, 2008 0:09:31 GMT -5
Completely disagree--and the Spurs players know the deal--once Fisher bumped him-he's got to go up and through Fisher--and make them make the call--the minute he moved back and took a dribble away from contact--he made it a no-call--Barry knows this, and rest of league knows this--that is why no complaining at all. Bad play by Barry--but also--anyone see Horry begging for ball back wide open after the inbounds play---don't care if he's not made a shot--Horry wide open for 3 is better then Barry--even with his 23 tonight.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 28, 2008 0:46:54 GMT -5
That may be, RDF, but an elbow to the head that bends the guy's head sideways is a foul. Are you signing on to the Duke school of NBA flopping to draw a foul call? For shame! (I hope you get that my first post was supposed to be facetious - I actually agree with you) The post-game quotes: Big shot Bob would definitely have been the money choice.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 28, 2008 1:23:50 GMT -5
I still dont' understand why his first instinct wasn't to shoot when he felt the hit--make them call it--and that is how you do it--the minute he faded from contact and took that dribble and then his reaction was to walk towards his lockeroom without protesting the call? He didn't sell it--didn't use the contact to his advantage and it was not something you get called unless you go with initial hit and put up the shot.
In addition--calls even out--the NBA is known for giving a few steps--but that dunk by Tim Duncan where he never dribbled and took 5 steps was beyond comical.
Thing that should also be pointed out--Spurs gave up 4 points in last 20 seconds of First Half--and that extra possession is as important in this game as any--not to mention the fact Fisher's shot attempt hit the rim and shot clock was never re-set--so instead of Spurs having to go for steal/foul down 2 with 5.2 seconds left--they got ball back after Kobe miss. I thought Farmar had a shot hit rim that Lakers rebounded and it was awarded to Spurs as well-so the opportunities are there--and Lakers GAGGING down stretch helped even more--but Spurs didn't deserve to win that game--and with Barry's lack of aggression once he was bumped--didn't deserve call.
Talking in general-not at you Dan.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 28, 2008 1:29:52 GMT -5
I know that RDF.
Spurs had many, many opportunities to win the game and took advantage of precious few.
They have only themselves to blame for that.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on May 28, 2008 10:41:57 GMT -5
Thing that should also be pointed out--Spurs gave up 4 points in last 20 seconds of First Half--and that extra possession is as important in this game as any-- thank you doug collins
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 28, 2008 11:34:18 GMT -5
RDF apparently joining the rest of the analysts after the game in saying "yes it was a foul, but he didn't sell it" so it was a good no call? What? In addition to being fouled you now have to "sell it" to get the call? When did that become part of the rules.
Look, I get that Barry didn't go up through Fisher and act like he was shot by a sniper ala Kobe/Bowen/Reggie Miller/etc., but that same play is called a foul 99% of the time and should have been called a foul last night. Barry was being penalized for not being a good enough actor.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 28, 2008 11:44:58 GMT -5
RDF apparently joining the rest of the analysts after the game in saying "yes it was a foul, but he didn't sell it" so it was a good no call? What? In addition to being fouled you now have to "sell it" to get the call? When did that become part of the rules. Look, I get that Barry didn't go up through Fisher and act like he was shot by a sniper ala Kobe/Bowen/Reggie Miller/etc., but that same play is called a foul 99% of the time and should have been called a foul last night. Barry was being penalized for not being a good enough actor. No he's not-he's being punished for not playing through it and forcing the foul to be called. I'm not going off what analysts said--I'm going off watching years of basketball and knowing what will be and what won't be called. Notice the Spurs reaction? What did their coach, Duncan, Barry, Ginobili, etc... all say? Are you hearing them whine? No--why? Because he had a chance to smack into Fisher when he was bumped-and instead he made a move to avoid the contact/get a shot off--which won't draw a foul in that situation. Watch some damn NBA basketball and you'll see same thing. If you don't like it--fine--but it's reality of situation. For a team that grabs/holds/flops-which Spurs are one of best--they didn't whine/complain at all. Why? The fact that analysts who also happen to be former players--and know what will be/won't be called all agreed--I'll take that as further proof that I'm correct in my commentary on the situation. If anything--the Spurs will see they should've had to foul Bryant with 5.2 seconds left considering the Fisher shot hit the rim and got a break--so you have nobody to blame but yourself. Refs don't win/lose games--and everyone focuses on "last play/non call"--well what about the 47 minutes and 58 seconds? Quit crying about it like it's Harry HS or College ball--the guys at that level know what to do when bumped and Barry faded from contact--that is on him.
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moe09
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Post by moe09 on May 28, 2008 12:13:08 GMT -5
I completely agree with RDF. The chance was there for Barry to make it a foul, and the fact is that he didn't. This situation is definitely well known amongst people who are involved in basketball, and it would have been called had Barry made the correct move. Had he jumped, Fisher would've obstructed his movement, and thus made it a foul. However, as it was, there wasn't enough contact to say that Fisher fouled Barry on the shot, let alone on the floor.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 28, 2008 12:45:05 GMT -5
A few comments on the game last night:
1. I have inflicted grievous bodily injury upon myself. Every time Brent friggin' Barry made a basket, I whacked myself in the head with a baseball bat. In the future, please send all correspondence to Hoyarooter, c/o Camarillo State Mental Hospital. I just couldn't believe Barry, who probably hasn't had a game like that for three years, hitting shot after shot.
2. Kobe made a ton of big plays last night, but if I had him in my family room at the end of the game, I would have used my bat on him. He made one of the dumbest plays in the history of professional basketball in the final minute last night, and it nearly cost the Lakers the game. It was Esherickian in its stupidity. That drive to the basket was contested every step of the way. Kobe, of course, thinks he can do anything, so rather than use the clock, he took a difficult shot that led to a Spur lay-up/goal tend at the other end.
3. Odom continued to struggle in the first half, but he was the Lakers' best player in the fourth quarter, hands down. Plaudits to Lamar.
4. I agree with the consensus on the non-call. The Spurs have no beef. Had Barry played it differently, he would likely have gotten the call. But Fisher's shot hit the rim, and somehow, Kobe took 29 shots without getting fouled. And of course, the Spurs have made no beef. They're a class organization, top to bottom.
5. Ginobili is clearly not himself. Were he healthy, we would be looking at an entirely different series. That left me feeling sorry for the Spurs until I remembered that the Lakers are without Bynum.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 28, 2008 12:56:55 GMT -5
RDF apparently joining the rest of the analysts after the game in saying "yes it was a foul, but he didn't sell it" so it was a good no call? What? In addition to being fouled you now have to "sell it" to get the call? When did that become part of the rules. Look, I get that Barry didn't go up through Fisher and act like he was shot by a sniper ala Kobe/Bowen/Reggie Miller/etc., but that same play is called a foul 99% of the time and should have been called a foul last night. Barry was being penalized for not being a good enough actor. No he's not-he's being punished for not playing through it and forcing the foul to be called. I'm not going off what analysts said--I'm going off watching years of basketball and knowing what will be and what won't be called. Notice the Spurs reaction? What did their coach, Duncan, Barry, Ginobili, etc... all say? Are you hearing them whine? No--why? Because he had a chance to smack into Fisher when he was bumped-and instead he made a move to avoid the contact/get a shot off--which won't draw a foul in that situation. Watch some damn NBA basketball and you'll see same thing. If you don't like it--fine--but it's reality of situation. For a team that grabs/holds/flops-which Spurs are one of best--they didn't whine/complain at all. Why? The fact that analysts who also happen to be former players--and know what will be/won't be called all agreed--I'll take that as further proof that I'm correct in my commentary on the situation. If anything--the Spurs will see they should've had to foul Bryant with 5.2 seconds left considering the Fisher shot hit the rim and got a break--so you have nobody to blame but yourself. Refs don't win/lose games--and everyone focuses on "last play/non call"--well what about the 47 minutes and 58 seconds? Quit crying about it like it's Harry HS or College ball--the guys at that level know what to do when bumped and Barry faded from contact--that is on him. Who's crying? I'm not. Just 'cause I disagree with you doesn't mean I care who wins the series. But that's typical RDF. I forget you've watched a lot of basketball so you're the expert. I think you'd have a stronger point if there was less contact, then I could see Barry having to into Fisher and force the call. But Fisher jumped into him pretty hard - to the extent that I don't think Barry had to do anything else to "earn" the call. Could he have done more? Possibly? But I think he'd already made his pump fake and then fisher ran into him too late for it to be in the act, so he tried gathering himself again to put the shot up and draw the foul, but Fisher hit him hard enough that it threw him off.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 28, 2008 13:18:35 GMT -5
You are whining about one call--and talk as if you have never seen an NBA game. Why did everyone associated with the game--players/coaches on both teams agree? Why did former players not think it should've been called? Did they criticize Barry for not going "Through" Fisher--i.e once he's in air/bumped Barry-you go towards him/smack into him--not fade and dribble. Duncan said this in his comments--he thought Barry should've gone through his arm--he didn't.
What I get irritated about anytime there is a call at END of the game--people Edited and moan. I could give you 10 calls in that game that went Spurs way and influenced game as much--and you are whining about 1 non call where the player screwed up. This isn't Georgetown-Nova--which I'm on record thinking was a crappy call as well--but didn't think it decided the game because nobody in GU-Nova game had an argument--both teams sucked that night. Spurs had their chances--Kobe Bryant went to the FT line 1 time combined in Games 3 and 4. ONE TIME. I guess he wasn't fouled on any shot attempts. Fisher's shot hit the rim--which would've forced Spurs to foul/instead of playing defense and getting last shot/game winning shot attempt. Duncan caught a pass at 3pt line--never dribbled and dunked. No travel. Those plays dont influence a game?
An official is always going to call the foul if you are aggressive--when you passively fade after contact, you won't get call in that situation. Barry didn't say a word right after. He didn't react until he was on his way to lockeroom and then after game he didn't make an excuse. Unlike the awful over-officiated, and official dominated games you often see in CBB--the NBA lets players decide the games--whether fans like it or not--and if there is a foul late--it will go to aggressor a it should. Spurs should've been watching Kobe Bryant shoot 2 FT's to see if they were down 1 possession or 2 with about 4 seconds left and instead they had ball with chance to tie/win and yet your focus is on the "non-call".
Call it arrogance/smugness whatever--but you can't say the above information/facts are wrong.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 28, 2008 18:42:22 GMT -5
You are whining about one call--and talk as if you have never seen an NBA game. Why did everyone associated with the game--players/coaches on both teams agree? Why did former players not think it should've been called? Did they criticize Barry for not going "Through" Fisher--i.e once he's in air/bumped Barry-you go towards him/smack into him--not fade and dribble. Duncan said this in his comments--he thought Barry should've gone through his arm--he didn't. What I get irritated about anytime there is a call at END of the game--people Edited and moan. I could give you 10 calls in that game that went Spurs way and influenced game as much--and you are whining about 1 non call where the player screwed up. This isn't Georgetown-Nova--which I'm on record thinking was a crappy call as well--but didn't think it decided the game because nobody in GU-Nova game had an argument--both teams sucked that night. Spurs had their chances--Kobe Bryant went to the FT line 1 time combined in Games 3 and 4. ONE TIME. I guess he wasn't fouled on any shot attempts. Fisher's shot hit the rim--which would've forced Spurs to foul/instead of playing defense and getting last shot/game winning shot attempt. Duncan caught a pass at 3pt line--never dribbled and dunked. No travel. Those plays dont influence a game? An official is always going to call the foul if you are aggressive--when you passively fade after contact, you won't get call in that situation. Barry didn't say a word right after. He didn't react until he was on his way to lockeroom and then after game he didn't make an excuse. Unlike the awful over-officiated, and official dominated games you often see in CBB--the NBA lets players decide the games--whether fans like it or not--and if there is a foul late--it will go to aggressor a it should. Spurs should've been watching Kobe Bryant shoot 2 FT's to see if they were down 1 possession or 2 with about 4 seconds left and instead they had ball with chance to tie/win and yet your focus is on the "non-call". Call it arrogance/smugness whatever--but you can't say the above information/facts are wrong. They're wrong. ;D
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 28, 2008 20:21:26 GMT -5
I think kc is still upset that the Lakers beat the Jazz. It's obvious that the Jazz need to take lessons from the Spurs in how to avoid fouling Kobe.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on May 28, 2008 21:03:11 GMT -5
3. Odom continued to struggle in the first half, but he was the Lakers' best player in the fourth quarter, hands down. Plaudits to Lamar. Yeah, the Lakers look much better whenever Odom is playing well. If he shows up for Game 5 I'm afraid it's curtains for SAtown. The Spurs have got to get better production across the board. Here's the points/minutes breakdown for the Spurs last night. Duncan: 44:36/29 Parker: 41:59/23 Barry: 27:03/23 Ginobli: 36:04/7 Bowen: 34:38/7 Horry: 15:38/2 And nobody else scored. Oberto (who should ride pine for Game 5) played 21:42 without a point, Finley played 8:53 without a bucket, and Udoka played 8:25 without a bucket. Kurt Thomas got into the game for 56 seconds and did not score either. If I were Popovich, I'd bench Oberto and Udoka for the rest of the series -- they are liabilities on the court at this point. While we're on the subject of these two, what was up with Udoka bricking contested threes with time winding down in the 4th quarter in Game 1? Someone else needed to be shooting the ball with that game on the line.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 29, 2008 5:27:34 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 29, 2008 9:39:10 GMT -5
I think kc is still upset that the Lakers beat the Jazz. It's obvious that the Jazz need to take lessons from the Spurs in how to avoid fouling Kobe. Not really. I think people here are more upset about David Archuleta (sp?) losing than they are about the Jazz.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 29, 2008 11:29:01 GMT -5
Yeah--and did the NBA mention the **** up on the Fisher shot prior to Spurs getting possession? I think the league simply did this because Joey Crawford was involved and they don't want the focus to be on that. It was a good no-call--the players involved disagree with Kermit the Frog--aka David Stern and that is what is more important.
If the league really wants to look into a dirty official--Ken Mauer is who I direct your attention to--that guy is so dirty--you could take Raw Sewage baths and be cleaner then that scumball.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on May 29, 2008 12:14:45 GMT -5
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