hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Mar 24, 2008 9:19:03 GMT -5
I certainly don't have the answers regarding our line up, but I'm pretty sure of one thing - putting Summers in at the 4 spot again is a mistake. He likes being on the outside and it fits his skill set...I can't think of a time this year he posted someone up. He is a shooter who on occasion slashes to the basket (though I would like him to do it more, in reality it usually ended in a turnover - a steal or offensive foul - or a missed dunk). As a small forward, he has very good size and would be an above average rebounder (he is below average at the 4).
There will be match ups and game situations where we go "small" with him at the 4, but I would not pencil that in as our go to lineup. I think a lot of our hopes this season were tied in with the belief that Summers would take the jump after a very good freshman year. It didn't happen...I think he actually regressed. I'm not buying that it had anything to do with an off season injury - I think it was playing out of position, never being comfortable as a result, and perhaps some NBA fever (just a sense, nothing to back that up).
hm
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Mar 24, 2008 9:28:22 GMT -5
i honestly can't see freeman starting at the 2 next year unless he gets in much better shape. quick guards will eat him alive off the dribble and i hate to see us try to beat pressing teams with him and sapp as our starting backcourt. come november, i think we'll see wright, sapp, freeman, summers, and macklin as the starters. monroe, sims, clark, rivers, and braswell give us a much bigger and deeper bench than we've had in a long time. i'm interested to see how summers comes back after a HEALTHY offseason. same goes for wright. Yeah, I'm with you on this one about Freeman. I know because of circumstances JT3 was forced to use him as a third guard playing small forward, but next year with the talent coming in everyone should play their normal position. Put Summers back at small forward and Freeman at the 2 guard. He has to get in better shape though for the guard position. I have to believe that after Jeff announced that he was leaving, JT3 went to Freeman over the summer and told him to bulk up a little because he would be playing small forward this year. So this summer he should do just the opposite and get back to his high school weight, a lot slimmer. That will be less McDonald's with more windsprints and more windsprints in order to keep up with Wright on the fast break.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Mar 24, 2008 9:29:25 GMT -5
Sucks to be looking forward to Kenner already.
With regards to Summers spending most of his time at the 3 - if he does, that means Wright doesn't start. I was pretty disappointed in DaJuan's play this year, and I'm not sure he's good enough to warrant keeping Wright on the bench.
So far DaJuan is a good athlete with a mediocre 3 point shot and an inconsistent handle, and probably something like the 4th or 5th best player on a top team. I think Wright could be more than that, and needs to start.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 24, 2008 9:32:00 GMT -5
Sucks to be looking forward to Kenner already. If it makes you feel any better, for now, you can look forward to the McDonalds All-American game, and the Capital Classic, and some other HS all-star games. THEN you can look forward to Kenner. Nah. It still sucks.
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Post by HoyaLawya on Mar 24, 2008 9:34:52 GMT -5
This team was robbed of championship contention when Green departed. With him-they are overall #1 seed this year and heavy favorite to win it all. Well, we know what happened, so forget that--but you can't forget that Roy would have these type of games--due to fouls, ineffective play, matchups, and key was someone stepped up. Nobody really consistently helped Roy at those moments--but he stepped in other ways--problem is--you get 16 minutes on court and 5 fouls--how can you impact a 40 minute game? It's not on Roy for today. It's on the style of play/approach of the program--you have to ATTACK--and sometimes I think III needs to learn he's got talent/firepower and doesn't need to "Shorten" a game--get after it for a full 40 and quit overthinking things--when you have a 7'2 guy with offensive talent--tweak the system to pound the ball to him on block. When you have a quicker lineup with good shooters--push and run. Very interesting comments from RDF ... somewhat echoed by somebody else who watched G'town in a good number of games, and felt Roy was not used to maximum advantage. guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=11312The old chicken-and-egg questions about player skills and whether, how, and when to adapt/depart from a system. "D" stands for Davidson and after the past three days, it also stands for "Double Daggers." That's what it felt like, watching Curry dispatch both GU's after both looked like they'd contained him, and Davidson, in their first halves.
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Post by HoyaTejano on Mar 24, 2008 9:46:53 GMT -5
The reality is that Thompson stopped running huge chunks of the traditional Princeton offense when he was still at Princeton -- Georgetown is running less pure Princeton than anybody thinks.
I do however see where that Gonzaga poster is getting -- it appears to outside observers that Georgetown bypasses some natural advantages in exchange for adherence to the system. However, in the UNC comeback, I never thought Georgetown deviated from what JT3 taught. I felt more that way in the Ohio State game, but even then, using the Princeton principles we were right there.
This isn't the Princeton offense anymore and I wish people would stop using that term. It's the Georgetown offense, and we are seeing the guy who is implementing it creating his own set of rules.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 24, 2008 9:49:54 GMT -5
post moved: Alright, for those of us who don't want to engage in the ritualized masochistic self mutilation that has taken over the board, thankfully there are many questions about the future that need to be answered.
Not only did we lose the game yesterday, but we also lost the greatest senior class ever to grace the Hilltop. Who plugs the holes, what will the offense look like, and how do the Baby Hoyas do in the relentless Big East conference?
The opening day lineup next year is clearly still a question mark. Considering that DaJuan did little this year that would indicate his readiness to jump to the NBA, I'm assuming that he's back. That said, no matter what happens, we should be fielding a plenty athletic squad. Here's my envisioned starting lineup:
1/2. Jessie Sapp 1/2. Chris Wright 3. Austin Freeman 4. DaJuan Summers (may the spelling "DaJaun" never cross these pages again!) 5. Greg Monroe
That's right. Monroe isn't a 5, but I think he gets the spot in the lineup over Macklin, who threatened to break through at one point this year, but generally couldn't hang when he was in. Rivers is the same way; I've always liked him, and for a while he looked like he could become really good, but he's still got a long way to go before he can even think about starting.
So our team is shorter and faster, which portends a completely different looking P-Town offense. In fact, next year should show us, finally, what the future of Georgetown is to be. JTIII will be working hard all summer to adapt Carrill's creation to a thoroughbred squad.
Not so fast, you say? The past three years have been the future, you say? Well, only partially. Jon Wallace, Roy Hibbert, and Jeff Green represented the transition. Jon and Roy, especially, were the anchors of this transition period. Jon was the teacher on the court, which all along was the key to his greatness as a Hoya--when he was out there, he made certain that things went right--and Roy was the focal point and origin of productivity (at least this year).
Next year, we lose these anchors of the transition period, and we move into an era where Thompson's highest caliber recruits take over. There are much smarter basketball people than I on this board, and I'd like to know what they think the offense will look like in these players' hands.
As far as how we do in the Big East, well, that's tough. SUcks is not going to suck next year, Louisville is going to be nasty again, ND will probably improve, and the league will again be a monster. I happen to think that the loss of Wallace will be the biggest detriment to the team in the next year, as his calming/teaching talents will be sorely missed on a young team. Without Wallace, Jessie will really have to grow up on the court; he needs to limit his tendency to wander mentally. I'm encouraged by the fact that Chris Wright walked into the offense for the BET and integrated seamlessly--that gives me hope that great players, like the one's we'll have running next year, can accelerate their learning curves for JTIII's system, however it may look.
The anchors are gone, and it's sink or swim, I suppose. I think the chances for swimming are great, and I'm looking for good things next year. Can we win the Big East? Probably not. But watch out for next year's team come February and March, because they'll be hitting their stride, and the new look offense could be a juggernaut.
Then again...
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 24, 2008 10:05:36 GMT -5
Well, ironically, IMO,what came to define our team so much this year will also define it next year- the game against Memphis. I have mentioned this many times, but I just think so much changed from the moment we lost that game in December. We went from media darlings to overrated Final Four team. We went from a team that a ran a confident system that bludgeoned UNC to a team that looked outmanned and outmuscled by more athletic players. All of a sudden, it wasnt so clear that the system could overcome all obstacles. If you had better athletes and stronger players, you could take it to us.
Next year, we will likely get an overrated Memphis team in Verizon. A young team that wins that game can get a huge boost that can carry over into 2009.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 24, 2008 10:20:20 GMT -5
Next year? 9-seed at best. What a chickensh_t prediction.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Mar 24, 2008 10:22:16 GMT -5
Macklin, Sims, Braswell and Monroe will have to hit the weight room big time. We are scary thin in the front court next year losing Hibbert and Ewing and those two weren't exactly dominant against strong teams (or 6'7" white guys from Canada).
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 24, 2008 10:25:29 GMT -5
I agree with way and RDF - I think next year will be interesting. It's almost like a "free" year; a year with relatively low expectations. Kind of like Ucon last year - lots of young talent that may mesh together, but will have some growing pains. I could see a 5 or 6 seed in the big east, a trip to the semis and a sweet sixteen run as a #6 or #7 seed.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 24, 2008 10:31:44 GMT -5
Well, ironically, IMO,what came to define our team so much this year will also define it next year- the game against Memphis. I have mentioned this many times, but I just think so much changed from the moment we lost that game in December. We went from media darlings to overrated Final Four team. We went from a team that a ran a confident system that bludgeoned UNC to a team that looked outmanned and outmuscled by more athletic players. All of a sudden, it wasnt so clear that the system could overcome all obstacles. If you had better athletes and stronger players, you could take it to us. Next year, we will likely get an overrated Memphis team in Verizon. A young team that wins that game can get a huge boost that can carry over into 2009. Love this thought - and I agree. Can't wait for this game, and can't believe how far away it is! Also can't wait to get Pitt on our home floor - students should already be getting their vocal chords ready for the verbal pounding that is due that mouthy pudgebucket DeJuan Blair
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Post by gsurus1 on Mar 24, 2008 10:42:18 GMT -5
Why do people think that Freeman needs to be moved back to the two next year, and Summers to the three? While it is clear that Summers isn't perfectly-suited for the PF spot, there is NO way that Chris Wright will not only start next year, but probably get the most minutes (with Freeman, Sapp and Summers close behind) on the team. We will have one major strength/advantage vs. almost all teams next year - speed and athleticism (ok, I guess two advantages, albeit related ones). We will have one major disadvantage - no inside presence whatsoever, so we will clearly want to avoid playing the halfcourt game at all costs. Without Wright in the game, our offense will bog down to a perimeter-passing mess, with lots of end-of-shot-clock heaves or forced post entries to guys (Summers, Macklin, Monroe, and, to a lesser-extent, Sims) not well-suited to playing with their backs to the basket (unless they are flashing through the lane for a quick move as opposed to posting up). Wright is the only player we have who 1) will be capable of running the fast break properly (I assume everyone noticed that the drop the Hibbert at the foul line for his dunk in the BE tournament, as well as Macklin's dunk yesterday, both came off of quick passes from Wright) and 2) can drive and dish, or take it all the way to the basket, as he did 4 times yesterday, if we do get zoned in the halfcourt. I see Wright, Sapp, Freeman and Summers as the 4 constants next year, all playing more than 30 minutes per game, with Macklin and Monroe playing slightly less than this and Sims and Rivers getting the balance of the minutes (10-12 each).
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 24, 2008 10:51:06 GMT -5
From one of Barker Davis' 2 articles this morning:
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Mar 24, 2008 11:01:31 GMT -5
sapp should be the 6th man next year
pg wright sg freeman sf summers pf monroe c macklin
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 24, 2008 11:08:22 GMT -5
The key to next year's team is Macklin's development. There were flashes this season that he could be a force for us. He needs to shoot 1000 free throws a day every day until November - if he doesn't improve from the charity stripe, he's a liability for us. If he can shoot a decent FT percentage, he'll be the most important cog for us next season.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 24, 2008 11:13:37 GMT -5
sapp should be the 6th man next year pg wright sg freeman sf summers pf monroe c macklin I think that will be a lineup we use quite often, but there's no way Sapp isn't starting on next year's team, IMO. EDIT: Plus, Freeman needs to improve his ball handling to play that slot. Actually, just about everyone on this team could improve their ball handling.
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 24, 2008 13:52:04 GMT -5
sapp should be the 6th man next year pg wright sg freeman sf summers pf monroe c macklin I think that will be a lineup we use quite often, but there's no way Sapp isn't starting on next year's team, IMO. EDIT: Plus, Freeman needs to improve his ball handling to play that slot. Actually, just about everyone on this team could improve their ball handling. Honestly, I think Freeman is the closest we'll have to a floor general next season. There were points when he seemed to understand cutting better than anyone else out there. As a side note, why did we stop cutting AT ALL for about the last half of the season? Our smooth, sexy, efficient "Princeton" started to look like a cold, stagnant, lazy, frustrating Dartmouth. Do you guys think that was an intentional move AWAY from the Princeton strategy or just a problem with our execution?
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Post by gsurus1 on Mar 24, 2008 14:43:07 GMT -5
As to why we stopped cutting in the back half of the year, which was very noticeable, my view is that teams developed their defensive schemes primarily to shut this down in a specific way. I.e., they started to learn and REACT to the fact that if the ballhandler was driving at a man the defender should ignore his instinct to attack the ball, and instead drop off to stop the backdoor pass. This is why we had so many attempted backdoor passes deflected or stolen later in the year - and even those that were successful seemingly just made it through by a hair. The reason that a defense could back off the ballhandler is that when someone like Hibbert, Ewing or Rivers was driving the ball the defender knows that there is little chance that he is going to pull up for the 12-foot jumper - or keep going to the basket. This offense can only work properly, now that people (opposing coaches and players) are used to it, if guys like Freeman, Summers, Wright and Sapp will pull up for the open jumper at the elbow when the defender backs away, or blow past him to the basket while he is back on his heels or falling back to interfere with the cutter. Thus, with a lineup of Wright, Sapp, Freeman, Summers, and Monroe for instance - all of whom should be able to consistently hit a 12-foot jumper or get to the basket, this offense could in theory run far more efficiently than it did this year. I also hope, and I hate to say it, that we run a lot of the Memphis/Duke drive-and-dish offense, as I finally think that we'll have the ballhandlers and shooters to do that and will have to do so out of necessity given the prospective lack of any post game.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 24, 2008 15:06:27 GMT -5
Next year will be fun.
It was hard to have fun this year because of the expectations -- part of the fun of two years ago would be coming on this board and getting a little amped. That's hard to do when people are complaining after 19 point wins, etc. No blame, just reality.
Next year will be fun because this team has the potential to be better than this year. We also have the potential to miss the tournament completely -- look at Syracuse or 11 seed K State (and Monroe is not going to be anything like Beasley). Look at Nova.
It'll be fun to see the young guys develop. There will be early growing pains on offense and defense, but there's a ton of talent. I don't expect us to be better -- we're real young. But you never know.
As for the lineup, I see it like this:
G Sapp (obviously) G Wright (there's simply no way he's not starting) G Freeman (obviously) F Summers (note below) F Monroe (by conference season, at least)
Note on Summers: I don't get the "Summers is a three, moving him to four screwed him up" point of view. Perhaps someone can explain. It is true he plays like a three, but that should be to his advantage when playing fours! Why can't he take these guys off the dribble? I don't think it was the move, I think he just didn't develop as we all hoped. We had high hopes but still.
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