hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Feb 26, 2008 11:19:54 GMT -5
Dan,
Who is "castigating" Esh for not coming to the event? The point was simply that he hasn't been exiled from the basketball community.
Also, you must realize that games where he was still the coach and a gala are drastically different formats. Besides that, your claim that his family was harassed regularly at games is absurd.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 26, 2008 11:24:30 GMT -5
hoyaboy: castigate is probably too strong a word. All I meant is people seem to have expected the guy to show up for the event, when clearly he did not want to - whatever the reasons.
As for his family being 'harassed' - your word, not mine. Regularly may be an overstatement, but it did happen. Far from absurd.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 26, 2008 11:25:28 GMT -5
Dan - if you mean the jailbird Blake Esh, it was the other way around.
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Post by wildhoya on Feb 26, 2008 11:25:55 GMT -5
This seems a curious, if significant, distinction.
What/who does the term "basketball supporters community" refer to? Hoop Club?
Anyone care to elaborate on why the "basketball supporters' community" did not and has not [would not?] invite[d] him to such an event?
Is this "basketball supporters' community" that juvenile?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 26, 2008 11:36:27 GMT -5
SDHoya:
I'd be a lot more inclined to be nice to Escherick, except for that rant.
Though I didn't go to the game, I rooted for Georgetown to lose to Virginia Tech at MCI, so they wouldn't even make the Big East tournament. I was embarassed. I don't think I went to a game all season.
And so what do I hear from the coach, when I hear rumblings that he should be fired? What does he do? He says that he's the best coach that this school is ever going to have. Georgetown basketball, which I had been following ever since I became interested in going there in school, where a kind member of McDonough let me in for the first-ever Midnight Madness, where I, a transfer student, remember cheering with everybody on the Village C patio when the Hoyas beat Texas Tech and thinking "wow, this is my school" - something which connects me to all Georgetown alums more than almost anything else ever could, was basically extinguished. Thanks for your interest, but we're going to do our best to compete with Siena.
No contrition. No "this has been a hard year". No. Hubris. Hubris that (which you mentioned with RosslynHoya) the administration supported.
The strange part is that I wasn't angry. I was just defeated. All the fight had been sucked out. The best analogy was the Dark Crystal, where the podlings just had their life force sucked out of them. Something you always thought would be with you was taken away.
Part of the blame for this lies with the administration, but Escherick - a GU alum - was complicit.
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 26, 2008 11:38:53 GMT -5
I can assure all of you that I, Hatred Dude, am not Pierce. But I do know him from some of my undergrad activities.
The personal attacks are sort of ridiculous. If the issue is so hotly debated that the average Esherick thread is 3-4 pages, then clearly, this is a topic that can generate some very diverse and arguably legitimate opinions.
I also don't think it necessarily hurts to take a controversial side on something. Remember, this is an opinion column. He wasn't writing a news story on the rise and fall...or just fall...of Esherick. If this were a news story, it would be a mess, but for an opinion, it's sometimes nice to see at least a strong opinion rather than some PC garbage about immigration or how the GUSA ballot was "confusing."
There are lots of kids on campus who are "fans" now but don't even know where this team has come from. If this column gets 20 kids to say "Who was Craig Esherick," that will actually serve to INCREASE the perspective of students in general.
SF-- I did catch the irony in my post criticizing your content while contributing absolutely none of my own. But I knew I'd be back here another half dozen times, so I figured I'd leave the substance for later.
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Post by nebraskahoya on Feb 26, 2008 11:40:10 GMT -5
I don't understand how the article can claim that Esh was mistreated. College athletics in this day and age has become a business, and the bottom line is that Jack's show of support allowed Esh to leave the university with more bank than he otherwise would have. Cry me a river -- so the university changed it's mind over the course of a few days. How many $$$ did that little show of support add to Esh's bank account? If I were to be fired, I'd rather it happened in such a way that allowed me to still receive full salary over the next 5 years.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Feb 26, 2008 11:51:52 GMT -5
There are lots of kids on campus who are "fans" now but don't even know where this team has come from. If this column gets 20 kids to say "Who was Craig Esherick," that will actually serve to INCREASE the perspective of students in general. That's a very good point. I had to restrain myself a couple weeks ago when someones were whining at length about how hard it is to synchronize cheers with two student sections at the opposite ends of the court and what a disadvantage it is that no other school has to deal with ... failing to comprehend that merely three years ago, the entire student section consisted of the lower-level seating behind ONE basket at MCI. Things have changed so dramatically in such a short time, I don't think there's anyway for any current students to fathom the lean years and the resulting feelings among the young alums that lived them.
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SoCalHoya
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Post by SoCalHoya on Feb 26, 2008 12:11:00 GMT -5
IMHO, we only fired Esherick so abruptly because of his hubris-filled rant. The ax was certainly on its way down already. The problem is that we should have taken the higher road, allowed him to come home from his recruiting trip and then let him go personally.
On the whole Esherick was an awful coach thing, I don't think that is correct. I think he was a good if not great assistant coach. Big John must have thought he was competent enough to bring the team back. But as well all know, assistant coaches don't often make good head coaches. And he was in over his head. I think we've all been in situations like that. I try to think about what I would have done were I in his shoes. I think I would have resigned, or negotiated some buy-out; I love Georgetown too much to hurt it. Perhaps the stress of the job clouded his judgment, but I think there was evidence of his "me against the world" mentality before the rant (recalling one exchange I had with him on the WaPo chat boards).
I do hope he can come back to the program in the future. Maybe Big John can broker a truce? I agree with Dan that it was probably not the appropriate time to come to the Century gala. It wasn't a drunkfest by any stretch, but I'm sure some slightly tipsy supporter would have said something snotty to him, and then there would be another story on these boards talking about the fight Esh had with Mr. or Mrs. somethingorrather.
Over and out.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 26, 2008 12:24:01 GMT -5
This column has no purpose--all it will do is draw up a Hoya "Civil War" between people who think someone should be thanked for getting his education paid for and millions of dollars to coach basketball--and very poorly--and those who think Esherick is the Isiah Thomas of CBB, although I personally believe Isiah was a smarter coach. Esherick being "mistreated". Hmm....this kid watch any Hoya games while he was coaching? If not, let me paint this picture for you: 1. The only banners being hung were above URINALS in the bathroom. 2. He took the job "reluctantly", always made statements about how he could just quit being a coach and become a lawyer, then became a defiant, egotistical goblin by the end of his tenure, threatening fans with "I'll be here as long as I WANT to be coach". Yeah--that brings everyone together. 3. His brother was an absolute disgrace at games and confronted a fan--who actually paid for his ticket and was just voicing his opinion of what Blake's brother's coaching ability was. The only FIST that should've been put up--is by someone upside Blake Esherick's head. 4. Hoya games couldn't fill half of McDonough if this man was still coaching. The Hoyas make the current SJU situation look on the upswing, and nobody who could play would consider Georgetown. Billy Packer's comments were spot on. This program wasn't loved, liked, hated, feared, It was HAPLESS, nobody cared, and it didn't matter--to anyone. The few of us who stuck around during the tough times, were resorting to false hopes of recruits who would just list the Hoyas initially--knowing that nobody would ever visit--let alone sign with Georgetown. The man had a good eye for talent--but basically was just fodder for other teams--especially Calhoun who would wait to see who Esherick liked--and then poach on the guys and take them. The SR group GU has now--Driesell and Jaren were as responsible for them as anyone--and if Esherick was coach-Jeff Green would've been at Syracuse. Hibbert and Crawford would be here--and it would have been up to them to improve their game. They'd be subbing in/out for no reason with guys who couldn't play and how could you with no rhythm to a game because every deadball someone else was coming in/out of game? 5. The lone run Esherick made in NCAA's was after he had his best team barely make the NCAA's after starting out 17-2. They had a debacle against Seton Hall in BET, and barely got in due to an awful non conference schedule. He almost screwed that up. He did screw up the following year--when he had an NCAA worthy team and they didn't make it due to his inept coaching. 6. When a coach has to be defiant towards his own fanbase, what does that tell you? If the words of fans were unfounded/wrong, why even acknowledge them? We had to deal with the BUNK from many on the old site about how "Things will never change-so don't bother saying Hoyas need a new coach" and we had to hear the drivel/non-sense of why Hoyas could NOT compete in this era due to lack of facilities, budget, etc....and when you tried to bring up positives of what Georgetown has to offer--you were told how that was a "dream". Well, we saw how that turned out and everyday that passes with Esherick gone and out of mind/sight--is a better day for this program and University. He divides people, he was a CANCER as a coach, his team didn't respect his ablities as a head coach, fans hated him, recruits didn't take him seriously, and he TAUNTED the fanbase, yet we owe this guy an apology for giving him a free education and job? BULLCRAP. Absolute manure. I hope the kid who wrote this gets banned from watching any Hoya games, is tied to a chair Clockwork Orange Style and has to watch every damn game that miserable load coached at Georgetown. He was a CANCER and the cancer is gone. Why do we need to go back to that error? Disgraceful column, filled with wrong information, and with a level of ignorance/arrogance that was Esherick at the end of his awful tenure. If you like him as a person--fine. If you like him as a coach-you have no business being a Hoya fan--and are a traitor/liar if you say you are/were. That man was in over his head, threatened fans, made us feel like he was best man that Georgetown would "Ever get" and then taunted the fans, while his brother tried to assault them. That is beyond disgusting--only surpassed by the drivel on the court that was a team playing how he "instructed" them. I'm still waiting for the jobs I was told Esherick would get when I said nobody else in Division One would ever hire this man. I was told I was wrong and he'd be coaching again--well I'm still waiting and feel quite confident this will NEVER HAPPEN--nor should it unless you want to be an irrelevant, poorly coached, confused, team who has a coach who likes to throw his power/stature in face of angry/frustrated fans and a brother who can't handle the criticism that comes with doing a crappy job of his sibling. Esherick's Coaching Career can RIM-REST IN MISERY and all Hail JTIII!!!
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Post by dajuan on Feb 26, 2008 12:33:04 GMT -5
I'd be a lot more inclined to be nice to Escherick, except for that rant. I don't remember the specific rant that everyone is referring to. I was an undergrad at the time of Esh's departure and maybe I blocked that period of Georgetown basketball out of my mind, or maybe it was all the Busch Lights, but I just can't remember.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 26, 2008 12:34:07 GMT -5
This column has no purpose--all it will do is draw up a Hoya "Civil War" between people who think someone should be thanked for getting his education paid for and millions of dollars to coach basketball--and very poorly--and those who think Esherick is the Isiah Thomas of CBB, although I personally believe Isiah was a smarter coach. . . . Esherick's Coaching Career can RIM-REST IN MISERY and all Hail JTIII!!! With due respect, this rant serves no purpose other than to dredge up animosity. For what purpose? Esherick is no longer the coach, and I see no reason to revisit his failings. Many of you seem like you need some serious therapy. Who holds onto hatred and anger like this for so long? Craig Esherick is a human being, and he's a Hoya. Despite his failings, he deserves respect and dignity as a human being, as well as forgiveness and understanding. And I would certain hope that all of us who are Georgetown alumni would have learned better from our Jesuit teachers.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 26, 2008 12:34:22 GMT -5
Yeah, what RDF said. Classic post!
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 26, 2008 12:36:21 GMT -5
Yeah, what RDF said. Classic post! Not classic. Classless.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 26, 2008 12:39:21 GMT -5
that rant was classic RDF, classless or not...you can see his anger bubbling over as the post progresses - the definition of a rant.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 26, 2008 12:42:43 GMT -5
Yeah, what RDF said. Classic post! Not classic. Classless. You want classless? Look up Esherick's comical rant about Sweetney. Look up his even more comical statement that he'd be coaching at Georgetown as long as he wanted - a statement that was made with the sole intention of taunting and riling up the fanbase he showed nothing but disdain for, and a statement that proved retroactively humiliating only weeks after he made it. Look up the behavior of his brother at home games. Look up insulting the NIT by hanging a banner over the TOILETS. Spare me the Esh pity. The man came damn close to destroying our program. That's all I have to say on this - this year's team deserves our attention now, not an egocentric failed former coach. alumnus or not.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 26, 2008 12:43:12 GMT -5
This column has no purpose--all it will do is draw up a Hoya "Civil War" between people who think someone should be thanked for getting his education paid for and millions of dollars to coach basketball--and very poorly--and those who think Esherick is the Isiah Thomas of CBB, although I personally believe Isiah was a smarter coach. Esherick being "mistreated". Hmm....this kid watch any Hoya games while he was coaching? If not, let me paint this picture for you: 1. The only banners being hung were above URINALS in the bathroom. 2. He took the job "reluctantly", always made statements about how he could just quit being a coach and become a lawyer, then became a defiant, egotistical goblin by the end of his tenure, threatening fans with "I'll be here as long as I WANT to be coach". Yeah--that brings everyone together. 3. His brother was an absolute disgrace at games and confronted a fan--who actually paid for his ticket and was just voicing his opinion of what Blake's brother's coaching ability was. The only FIST that should've been put up--is by someone upside Blake Esherick's head. 4. Hoya games couldn't fill half of McDonough if this man was still coaching. The Hoyas make the current SJU situation look on the upswing, and nobody who could play would consider Georgetown. Billy Packer's comments were spot on. This program wasn't loved, liked, hated, feared, It was HAPLESS, nobody cared, and it didn't matter--to anyone. The few of us who stuck around during the tough times, were resorting to false hopes of recruits who would just list the Hoyas initially--knowing that nobody would ever visit--let alone sign with Georgetown. The man had a good eye for talent--but basically was just fodder for other teams--especially Calhoun who would wait to see who Esherick liked--and then poach on the guys and take them. The SR group GU has now--Driesell and Jaren were as responsible for them as anyone--and if Esherick was coach-Jeff Green would've been at Syracuse. Hibbert and Crawford would be here--and it would have been up to them to improve their game. They'd be subbing in/out for no reason with guys who couldn't play and how could you with no rhythm to a game because every deadball someone else was coming in/out of game? 5. The lone run Esherick made in NCAA's was after he had his best team barely make the NCAA's after starting out 17-2. They had a debacle against Seton Hall in BET, and barely got in due to an awful non conference schedule. He almost screwed that up. He did screw up the following year--when he had an NCAA worthy team and they didn't make it due to his inept coaching. 6. When a coach has to be defiant towards his own fanbase, what does that tell you? If the words of fans were unfounded/wrong, why even acknowledge them? We had to deal with the BUNK from many on the old site about how "Things will never change-so don't bother saying Hoyas need a new coach" and we had to hear the drivel/non-sense of why Hoyas could NOT compete in this era due to lack of facilities, budget, etc....and when you tried to bring up positives of what Georgetown has to offer--you were told how that was a "dream". Well, we saw how that turned out and everyday that passes with Esherick gone and out of mind/sight--is a better day for this program and University. He divides people, he was a CANCER as a coach, his team didn't respect his ablities as a head coach, fans hated him, recruits didn't take him seriously, and he TAUNTED the fanbase, yet we owe this guy an apology for giving him a free education and job? BULLCRAP. Absolute manure. I hope the kid who wrote this gets banned from watching any Hoya games, is tied to a chair Clockwork Orange Style and has to watch every damn game that miserable load coached at Georgetown. He was a CANCER and the cancer is gone. Why do we need to go back to that error? Disgraceful column, filled with wrong information, and with a level of ignorance/arrogance that was Esherick at the end of his awful tenure. If you like him as a person--fine. If you like him as a coach-you have no business being a Hoya fan--and are a traitor/liar if you say you are/were. That man was in over his head, threatened fans, made us feel like he was best man that Georgetown would "Ever get" and then taunted the fans, while his brother tried to assault them. That is beyond disgusting--only surpassed by the drivel on the court that was a team playing how he "instructed" them. I'm still waiting for the jobs I was told Esherick would get when I said nobody else in Division One would ever hire this man. I was told I was wrong and he'd be coaching again--well I'm still waiting and feel quite confident this will NEVER HAPPEN--nor should it unless you want to be an irrelevant, poorly coached, confused, team who has a coach who likes to throw his power/stature in face of angry/frustrated fans and a brother who can't handle the criticism that comes with doing a crappy job of his sibling. Esherick's Coaching Career can RIM-REST IN MISERY and all Hail JTIII!!! For some reason this response evoked a distinct Esherick as abusive ex-boyfriend vibe, which is entirely reasonable when I think about it. He was psychologically debilitating to the fan base, student body and alumni.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 26, 2008 12:46:29 GMT -5
You want classless? Look up Esherick's comical rant about Sweetney. Look up his even more comical statement that he'd be coaching at Georgetown as long as he wanted - a statement that was made with the sole intention of taunting and riling up the fanbase he showed nothing but disdain for, and a statement that proved retroactively humiliating only weeks after he made it. Look up the behavior of his brother at home games. Look up insulting the NIT by hanging a banner over the TOILETS. Spare me the Esh pity. The man came damn close to destroying our program. That's all I have to say on this - this year's team deserves our attention now, not an egocentric failed former coach. alumnus or not. I'm not saying we should praise or pity him. But we should forgive him and move on. I don't understand why you all feel a need to continue to lambaste him. Hoyatalk needs an exorcism - or an enema - to get rid of all of this hate.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 26, 2008 13:01:45 GMT -5
This column has no purpose--all it will do is draw up a Hoya "Civil War" between people who think someone should be thanked for getting his education paid for and millions of dollars to coach basketball--and very poorly--and those who think Esherick is the Isiah Thomas of CBB, although I personally believe Isiah was a smarter coach. . . . Esherick's Coaching Career can RIM-REST IN MISERY and all Hail JTIII!!! With due respect, this rant serves no purpose other than to dredge up animosity. For what purpose? Esherick is no longer the coach, and I see no reason to revisit his failings. Many of you seem like you need some serious therapy. Who holds onto hatred and anger like this for so long? Craig Esherick is a human being, and he's a Hoya. Despite his failings, he deserves respect and dignity as a human being, as well as forgiveness and understanding. And I would certain hope that all of us who are Georgetown alumni would have learned better from our Jesuit teachers. "Who holds onto hatred/anger like this for so long"? ANSWER: Fans who were subjected to a coach who: 1. Taunted them for wanting better production by saying "You're LUCKY I'm coaching here"; followed by him telling everyone how the Hoya job wasn't a great job. What inspiration from the leader of the program. 2. His taunts of "I'm not going anywhere--I'll be coaching here 50 years if I want to"--and this is after his worst season. Yeah--he was classy and all of the fans were "Evil". Many fans just wanted a new basketball coach--and actually said things like "I wouldn't mind Esh working for the University...." and then he unloaded his nonsense and hatred towards those who just wanted him to do a better job or step aside. He attended Georgetown--some of us fans didn't get that opportunity. We still donate money to the program and love it as much--if not more then he does, and yet we're the ones who need to be reminded of the "Jesuit" background? Give me a break. 3. He and Tom Lang said it was "not realistic goal" to be an NCAA tournament team every season. This was prior the current expansion of the Big East. Can you imagine how low the expectations would be now with those two? "Guys--you are not right if you think making the BET is realistic--this league is too tough". Goals can't be achieved if you never set them high. Contrat this to JT III "My goal is to WIN FOREVER". Hmmmm, wonder why some feel dislike for the man and loyalty to III? 4. His last month on job and his brother's actions were most dispicable display I've seen since being a Hoya fan--and I've been a fan since I was 5 years old--which would be 1980. People who actually paid to get tickets to the junk he called basketball should've been given hugs--not assaulted. Nobody cared about the program overall--and those who did--were 90% in favor of change and were told repeatedly that would NOT happen--EVER. It was an awful time to be a fan--and the few of us on this site who were at the other site aren't that far from "dark days". 5. What Eshoholics and people who "don't understand the dislike/hatred" fail to remember--the fact that everyone who wanted him gone--didn't say a negative thing about him as a person/former Alum. Comments were strictly about his ability to coach--and failure on recruiting circruit. The best team he had was given aid by Pops--he got after it on recruiting trail, left a very good team--NCAA caliber team---for Esh--and while I understand the criticism of Pops toward end--which was/is justified, Esherick took this program to depths that I never thought possible. So upon criticism--he launches a tirade/taunt towards the few fans left? What a jerk. That was last straw and it was a MISSION to get this man out of his job and have him suffer while it happened. Look what happened? Look where program is now? Who was right/wrong? It's really simple for me--this man created the dislike/hatred for him. Saying someone isn't a good coach/Hoyas need another is just talking basketball. When you tell fans off--who are LOYAL and have been loyal despite your failures in your occupation-you are basically telling them to "BLEEP OFF" and in response expect us to be civil when things are improved due to the very thing we all wanted-a NEW COACH? Many can move on as if that debacle never happened. I'll ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT ATTITUDE/MISERY because I never want to re-live that era/error again. III is just getting STARTED with this program--and look where it's come in his 3 3/4 seasons as coach. If anything--this writer did one thing--he made me calm down towards current team and just enjoy rest of season-because things are at a different level with a man who has vision/toughness/ability to run this program the right way on/off the court. HOYA SAXA means something again. Georgetown means something. Pride is back. Enthusiasm is back. III has taken the great days on the court/excellence/clean program off it, and enhanced it with a bond between young/old fans, players/students/faculty, and made it the experience even more exciting/better for all of us. We've moved on to bigger/better things and we now have to hear about the darkest moment/clueless coach who damn near got Georgetown out of Big East in a manner we all should "apologize"? He should apologize to fans for how he/his brother handled the situation-and then we'll accept him back in a manner we once held. Until then, he gets what he gave--and that is never going to be forgotten.
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sbgorms
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Post by sbgorms on Feb 26, 2008 13:22:59 GMT -5
RDF, I'm impressed with the speed with which you've thrown two essays up on the board. I agree with some of what you say, however I can't appreciate the anger and hostility. Esherick was fired almost four years ago. The program has undergone an amazing revitalization that is so far ahead of schedule some of us Esh-era alums have a case of whiplash. I disagree very strongly with the writer of this piece on so many of his points, however the time to drag Esherick through the mud (if there ever was any to this degree) has passed. Esherick is a Hoya, and doesn't deserve this treatment at this point in time, no matter what your opinion of him. It is time to put the past in the past.
When midnight madness rolls around in October, there won't be a Hoya suiting up who was recruited by Esh, let alone played for him. If that can't bring closure, I'm not sure what will, and I guess it is by that token that I just don't understand the timing of this article and what seems to be controversy for the sake of controversy.
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