vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Feb 7, 2008 19:58:46 GMT -5
I think his faith damned him not only because many are skeptical/fearful of the faith (what was it 1/3 or 1/4 of Americans would never vote for one?) but also there was the perception that no "true" Mormon could have ever been governor of the home of John Kerry and Ted Kennedy without compromising his faith.
Coupled with the fact that he was unlikable and had no attractive policies, he never really had a chance
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 7, 2008 20:41:47 GMT -5
Ah, but is Mitt really just positioning himself for 2012? abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=4257908&page=1It certainly would not surprise me, but it also seems to me he needs to do something to strengthen his resume in the interim- even without any young GOP stars (like Obama for the Dems), Romney must see that John Edwards' path did not work out so well. (Snip) Everyone, meet Bobby Jindal, rising star of the Grand Old Party. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jindal |
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 7, 2008 20:45:05 GMT -5
Jack - I believe McCain is on record as saying he would only be a one-termer if elected. This obviously makes his VP pick all the more significant.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Feb 7, 2008 22:19:55 GMT -5
Romney's comments today are unbecoming of a national candidate and should be retracted on the basis of their being crude and delivered by someone with as much foreign policy experience as a garden variety high school participant in Model United Nations. I'm not so sure why he is beating his chest when he is a late arriver to the foreign policy debates of our time and has contributed in no significant way to them during this campaign.
I don't see why conservatives would like him other than that they could easily manipulate him to advance their goals.
The GOP should be proud of its nominee (McCain). He has served this country with distinction and contributed mightily to a range of issues without being a shrill partisan.
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Post by seattlehoya11 on Feb 8, 2008 1:12:15 GMT -5
Ah, but Romney must see that John Edwards' path did not work out so well. Maybe the Edwards path didn't work out so well (although that remains to be seen as he has already been the veep candidate once and could be again), but it looks like the McCain one is working out alright in the end. Granted he did manage to stay an elected official during the time between '00 and '08, but the point stands that failing to gain election doesn't doom (necessarily) ones political career. That said, Romney politically positioned himself pretty far from where he was as governor so he's going to need a new political market if he wants a new life. |
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Feb 8, 2008 9:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, don't the leopards hate it when others point out their spots?  You're a dick. Are you really saying that I and every other Democrat is anxiously awaiting the day where sharia is implemented, we all convert to Islam, and we're subsumed within the caliphate? Go Edited yourself. The well-thought out liberal response. I know it well. |
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 8, 2008 10:51:02 GMT -5
Easy there, boys. This isn't 1994 or 2000; let's try to play nice.
I was shocked to hear that Romney basically said that voting Democratic would be tantamount to giving in to terrorism. Shocked. It was irresponsible, divisive, slanderous, and just plain wrong. Who among you will defend the accusations he made?
No matter what pejoratives people want to throw out EVERYONE IS AGAINST TERRORISM, BUT SOME OF US HAVE A DIFFERENT IDEA ABOUT HOW TO FIGHT IT. The vast majority of us supported deposing the Taliban, and continue to support the war effort in Afghanistan. We support rule of law. ALL of us were appalled by 9/11 and want to bring the perpetrators of such atrocities to justice. Just because some people disagree about how to go about it does not mean they're wrong (I'm looking at you, Sean Hannity).
I also don't think most people thought that Romney was the guy to make our nation stronger. It had nothing to do with his chosen faith*, it had to do with what others have mentioned above. He's an excellent businessman and administrator, but not the kind of leader Americans look for in a president. He's a manager. The car salesman imagery is perfect.
* faith, of course, being something you choose unlike skin color or sex. Not that anyone should vote or not vote for a candidate based on any of the three, of course, and I'm glad we're at a place in our nation's development where a mormon, a black man, and woman are all viable presidential candidates and the hispanic vote is important.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 8, 2008 11:16:40 GMT -5
Easy there, boys. This isn't 1994 or 2000; let's try to play nice. I was shocked to hear that Romney basically said that voting Democratic would be tantamount to giving in to terrorism. Shocked. It was irresponsible, divisive, slanderous, and just plain wrong. Who among you will defend the accusations he made? No matter what pejoratives people want to throw out EVERYONE IS AGAINST TERRORISM, BUT SOME OF US HAVE A DIFFERENT IDEA ABOUT HOW TO FIGHT IT. The vast majority of us supported deposing the Taliban, and continue to support the war effort in Afghanistan. We support rule of law. ALL of us were appalled by 9/11 and want to bring the perpetrators of such atrocities to justice. Just because some people disagree about how to go about it does not mean they're wrong (I'm looking at you, Sean Hannity). I also don't think most people thought that Romney was the guy to make our nation stronger. It had nothing to do with his chosen faith*, it had to do with what others have mentioned above. He's an excellent businessman and administrator, but not the kind of leader Americans look for in a president. He's a manager. The car salesman imagery is perfect. * faith, of course, being something you choose unlike skin color or sex. Not that anyone should vote or not vote for a candidate based on any of the three, of course, and I'm glad we're at a place in our nation's development where a mormon, a black man, and woman are all viable presidential candidates and the hispanic vote is important. First thing. I always get nervous when people quote speeches. So, for the first time ever that the NYT was useful, it's linked to, in all its "kinda" glory. www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/us/politics/08romney-transcript.htmlSo, I'll kind of defend him. 1. Romney was addressing CPAC, which is a bunch of very very conservative people. He turned on his "archconservative speechifier", as opposed to his "saved Olympics "speechifier" or "worked to unite Massachusetts speechifier". Part of this is the locale. 2. A lot of Romney's argument is about Iraq, and it, amazingly, is the one place where the Republicans have all coalesced. And it's a BIG difference between the two parties. Obama's ad isn't as nasty as Hillary's are, but he's still focused on "bringing our troops home". Hillary will face amazing pressure to do the same. There's a popular train of logic that says that leaving Iraq opens up a power vaccuum that is going to make things in the Middle East miserable. Really, really miserable. When Iraq looked like a total basket case, this argument really didn't matter because it looked to be heading there already. Now, however, the surge appears to be working and Iraq seems to have slowed down in its descent into hell. I would not be surprised if McCain uses this to trumpet his foreign policy experience (which trumps Obama by a country mile, and also trumps Hillary) to say that we need to finish the job in Iraq or our security will be hurt. For issues on fighting the war on terrorism, remember that McCain has also fought against waterboarding and the more aggressive tactics preferred by the Bush administration. Make no mistake. This is about Iraq. |
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 8, 2008 12:29:47 GMT -5
I don't think he's a bad guy or that he even meant what he said. I just despise that kind of pandering to an extreme point of view (on either side) and think that it sends the wrong message.
I do think it's kinda funny that the McCain campaign failed to pull its anti-Romney ads, and some were playing last night during commercials while the pundits discussing Romney's departure!
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Feb 8, 2008 12:41:03 GMT -5
Sheesh, reading that speech it's even worse than I thought. Thank goodness that guy isn't getting anywhere near the White House.
That jab wasn't just about Iraq. Earlier he said: "Barack and Hillary have made their intentions clear regarding Iraq and the war on terror: They would retreat, declare defeat."
The "and" is important - it shows he's talking about more than just Iraq. Later he also talks about fighting Al Qaeda as one of the areas where he agrees with McCain (and thus implies that he disagrees with the Dems). His statements are flat-out slander against both Hillary and Obama.
Fortunately John McCain is cut from a different cloth than Romney. He is a reasonable man who is capable of disagreeing with somebody while still respecting them. He can argue against your policy while not resorting to sensationalist and false claims. His reasoned (and in some cases legitimate) criticisms of the Democrats will be much better for the country than Romney's slander.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 8, 2008 12:44:05 GMT -5
I only note that Huckabee isn't going down without a fight. Classic appearance on Colbert last night, where he challenged Stephen to a game of nok-hockey to determine whether Huckabee could "win" Texas.
Huckabee has a fantastic sense of humor and tons of charisma. I doubt he'll win the nomination, but if he did I think he could destroy Hillary.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 8, 2008 13:16:47 GMT -5
Anybody see Conan running around "announcing" Romney's withdrawl? Pure comedy. Especially the line "comedy better than news!" as he runs away from Brian Williams.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Feb 8, 2008 13:22:45 GMT -5
I only note that Huckabee isn't going down without a fight. Classic appearance on Colbert last night, where he challenged Stephen to a game of nok-hockey to determine whether Huckabee could "win" Texas. Huckabee has a fantastic sense of humor and tons of charisma. I doubt he'll win the nomination, but if he did I think he could destroy Hillary. I seriously, seriously doubt this. Huckabee is a regional candidate and has shown absolutely no ability to win anything but evangelical voters. He alienates the fiscal and national security conservatives in his own party, and any crossover to independents and liberals facilitated by his charisma is muted by his crazy (to libs) social policies (I'm thinking of the "God's law" and "quarantine AIDS patients" tidbits, especially). Hillary would win every state but the south, he'd get creamed. And Boz, the last sentence of my reply to you is a quote by our dear VP. Classic liberal, huh? I stand by my post. |
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Feb 8, 2008 13:29:17 GMT -5
Huckabee strikes me as the sort of guy who I'd love to have as my neighbor, but not necessarily my President.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Feb 8, 2008 13:31:40 GMT -5
Look, 8 years ago I thought there was no way in hell this country would vote for a bumbling son of a president over a 2-term VP, and yet it happened. I think that many Clinton supporters are seriously underestimating the "anti-Clinton" bias that could come out, both within the party (less turnout) and outside the party (independents move right and high GOP turnout). Huckabee doesn't strike me as so offensive as to really incite Dems to turnout, and yet he also strikes me as good enough to get supporters to the polls.
Hillary's been successful because she's campaigning among friends, and GOP-ers have been focused on getting their own house in order. I really think we're going to see some stronger anti-Hillary bias starting very soon.
Anyway, this is all academic. Huckabee may think he has a chance, but McCain appears to be well on his way to victory. Finally -- third time's the charm, right?
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 8, 2008 13:55:55 GMT -5
Look, 8 years ago I thought there was no way in hell this country would vote for a bumbling son of a president over a 2-term VP, and yet it happened. I think that many Clinton supporters are seriously underestimating the "anti-Clinton" bias that could come out, both within the party (less turnout) and outside the party (independents move right and high GOP turnout). Huckabee doesn't strike me as so offensive as to really incite Dems to turnout, and yet he also strikes me as good enough to get supporters to the polls. Hillary's been successful because she's campaigning among friends, and GOP-ers have been focused on getting their own house in order. I really think we're going to see some stronger anti-Hillary bias starting very soon. Anyway, this is all academic. Huckabee may think he has a chance, but McCain appears to be well on his way to victory. Finally -- third time's the charm, right? Huckabee believes that the Earth is around 9,000 years old. This is a massive stumbling block for me. I'm cool if you don't believe in God, or believe in a lot of gods, or believe in a religion that involves goat blood, but ignoring the fossil record is a VERY BAD THING. Plus, Huckabee has this strong "paternal socialist" bent towards him. What's depressing is that he sounds so nice and folksy while talking about all these crazy proposals. He's Ron Paul if he were about more government rather than no government and sounded folksy rather than annoyed. As a right-wing Republican, I couldn't vote for Huckabee, even if he was facing Hillary. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Feb 8, 2008 14:48:38 GMT -5
Huckabee strikes me as the sort of guy who I'd love to have as my neighbor, but not necessarily my President. That is an interesting way of wording it. I remember several saying similar things of Bill Clinton. Specifically, I reamember saying that he'd probably be tons more fun to go out and have a beer with, but not who I want for President. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Feb 8, 2008 15:30:52 GMT -5
Huckabee strikes me as the sort of guy who I'd love to have as my neighbor, but not necessarily my President. That is an interesting way of wording it. I remember several saying similar things of Bill Clinton. Specifically, I reamember saying that he'd probably be tons more fun to go out and have a beer with, but not who I want for President. This was said way more often of W. |
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Feb 8, 2008 15:37:09 GMT -5
I'd rather have a beer with Steve Novick:
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Feb 8, 2008 16:05:34 GMT -5
Huckabee strikes me as the sort of guy who I'd love to have as my neighbor, but not necessarily my President. That is an interesting way of wording it. I remember several saying similar things of Bill Clinton. Specifically, I reamember saying that he'd probably be tons more fun to go out and have a beer with, but not who I want for President. Oddly enough, I feel the opposite way. I wouldn't want Bill living anywhere near me, especially if I had an attractive wife. That said, I thought he did a fine job in the Oval Office. It's even more true for Hillary - I don't think she's a very nice person, but I think she would do a good (but not great) job as President. As Bando said, George W would definitely be better as a neighbor than as a President. |
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