GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 28, 2007 11:34:31 GMT -5
If you're going to lose early to call out deficiencies in your team, lose the one you're supposed to lose. We know what we have to work on, we know what we're up against to win a national championship, and all we had to trade was 4 spots in the poll and a loss at #2 in the nation.
Now we've got a run of games we should win and we should use those to work on our problems. It would have been nice to win but this isn't ODU where we spiral out of the polls. We failed to do what 37 straight teams have failed to do; win at Memphis.
Against Alabama, I remember reading about how it would be good to lose for a "wake-up call." That was silly because you don't want bad losses on the resume. But we lost a game we were supposed to lose and will be able to learn from it. It's not great, but it doesn't get me like if we lose one of our next three.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Dec 28, 2007 13:55:38 GMT -5
Similarly, if you are sharply dressed and clean-shaven, are you "sheveled?" Greatest line - and movie - in Michael Keaton's rather tepid film career: "I noticed you two gentlemen are unencumbered by female companionship..."
"Yeah, so?"
"Well, how'd you like to get...you know...cumbered?"That was a good one. Two others worth mentioning: Are you wiring it all in 220?
220, 221 ... whatever it takes.and in a more obscure fashion, from Johnny Dangerously: "Magna Cum Laude (pronounced "loud-a") Summa Cum Laude The Radio's too Laude"
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Post by Hoya TMF on Dec 28, 2007 14:44:54 GMT -5
Giga,
I understand your thinking, but I'd rather have a win at Memphis on our resume and a loss to Bama or ODU or some other "bad" team than the other way around. People tend to forget losses to inferior teams (unless it becomes a trend) or they dismiss it as a fluke. A win at Memphis would have been a "statement," and could not be so easily dimissed given the caliber of both teams. Obviously, the big picture and March are more important, but if we won at Memphis, it would nullify the sting of any bad loss that came before it and could be written off as a let down if we lost to American or Fordham afterwards.
Now, it's obviously a moot point, so here's hoping we beat everyone else. Go Hoyas!!!
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Dec 28, 2007 14:52:15 GMT -5
Yeah--and that "electric" performance at home against Nova was even worse--and Editeded me off even more. Crappy basketball has no limits--I also pointed out--and rightfully so how AWFUL Duke was a year ago--while some here were too busy blowing all things Coach K---and how did that turn out "experts"? Oh wait--I know--it's just trying to point out how we can "overreact". Was I wrong? Did I not point out how that level of play and if you really want to go back--why not post the entire commentary where I mentioned if Green/Hibbert didn't elevate their play--this team was going nowhere. Amazing how "wrong" that turned out too. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Do me a favor--next time you guys want to bring up old threads--don't forget about the times I've been correct/dead on--because you might be surprised--but then again you might not have that much time in your day--oh wait--you dug through threads on HoyaTalk to make a point--so make the time or don't bother. It's tiresome to have to defend points that were correct. This team had to change--and you know what--they DID. Never said they couldn't--I said "IF THEY PLAY LIKE THAT....." and you saw a repeat performance against Nova in January and it ended up a miserable loss. I actually supported the loss at Pitt where I thought team turned corner--and still point to that 2nd Half as beginning of the turnaround-but guess that was forgotten. Maybe Ken Pomeroy or Joe Lunardi can take you on their Chocolate Rainbow Time Machine of Fantasy Life and tell you what lies ahead for the Hoyas. I just go by what I see--and the games I took issue with--I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy--that was AWFUL BASKETBALL!!! ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) Wow! What amazing insight, if Green and Hibbert didn't play better, the team wasn't going to do well. If the team played "AWFUL BASKETBALL" they would lose. If they don't play better then they did against Memphis, they're not going back to the final four. Way to go out on a limb there. I got another one, if the team doesn't start scoring more points than their opponents, they're not going to win many more games. The insight has been in detail and the style of basketball and approach has been as well--maybe you should go back to the old days of the board--remember what was written. The outline of how to build this program back into contention which many doubted was provided--and specific reasons were. I'm not the one who goes through pages of threads to make a point--and then try and ACT like I'm not going after someone. If I want to call you out--I do so and don't pretend to be making some point. What point were you making? That playing like crap is acceptible? The team can improve--but this cult like mentality that all is fine due to last year is beyond ignorant. Every team improves--yeah-big shocker there. It's what type of improvement you get-and the difference is--is Roy Hibbert a good enough player--which means ALL AROUND GAME--not just scoring--to make this team the contender that many here just assumed and blew off the departure of the team's best player a year ago? I'd like to think Hibbert can contribute more--but he's got to do it on the court and not get taken out of games when he's not scoring. Green was different--he could control a game without scoring. My frustration with him was due to his lack of aggression/realizing what was needed from him to elevate his team--he did it and look what happened? Many on this site said "Trust the system...." and my response was "Screw the system--play basketball"--so it's not wrong despite being obvious. Do you honestly think Roy Hibbert can influence a game without scoring? I am not certain. He's got to prove it. The only time he impacts a game--when he is scores. If he's not--he goes into a shell and team wins in spite of him or has to find other way to win. That shouldn't be happening to a guy who is a returning player--and been in program for 4 years. Find ways to contribute and be assertive--but then again I'd like to think something a fan saw at this time a year ago wouldn't have to be brought up again--a year later. Aggression isn't easily taught--it's in kids like Summers, Sapp, Freeman, Wright, Ewing, and it's why their "learning curve" was lesser then other kids. For instance-the team took off when Sapp took over the "point" on offense a year ago--and as one of the people to suggest this prior to last year--guess I was wrong about that as well? Or do you not have the power to find that in your computer either? The problem I took with your post-you ACTED like a smart ass. It's problem I have with Hibbert this year--he ACTS like a leader and it's useless. Be what you are--and in my case--it's an angry, antagonistic, jerk who takes great pride in insulting others, talking about basketball--and mentioning things before they happen when rest of you guys are too busy "Trusting the system" or "don't worry--same thing happened last year...". It's a new year--last year's best player is in Seattle, and this year the team faces different challenges. If you keep waiting for last year to happen--you'll be a .500 team in Big East and nobody wants that happen, so why not focus on THIS season? Do you honestly think this year's team can be a BE/BET championship contender with Roy Hibbert playing as he has to this point? I don't. Do you think he's able to take his game up a level like Jeff was a year ago? I have doubts. You guys bring up threads from last year--we'll see how it turns out.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Dec 28, 2007 14:53:41 GMT -5
Giga, I understand your thinking, but I'd rather have a win at Memphis on our resume and a loss to Bama or ODU or some other "bad" team than the other way around. People tend to forget losses to inferior teams (unless it becomes a trend) or they dismiss it as a fluke. A win at Memphis would have been a "statement," and could not be so easily dimissed given the caliber of both teams. Obviously, the big picture and March are more important, but if we won at Memphis, it would nullify the sting of any bad loss that came before it and could be written off as a let down if we lost to American or Fordham afterwards. Now, it's obviously a moot point, so here's hoping we beat everyone else. Go Hoyas!!! I think you make a great point. When it comes March Madness time, the first things that get mentioned are overall record, conference standing and the marquee wins you have on your resume'. In other words, a key win reflects as an indication of relative status while a stray loss is viewed as an off game/fluke. I guess if you had to simplify it, you would say that a loss to a Memphis "solidifies" your position as being inferior to Memphis but that a loss to an ODU or Bama team is viewed more as an outlier.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 28, 2007 15:26:11 GMT -5
which if you think about it doesn't make the most sense. why is a good win a better indicator of your real level than a bad loss shouldn't either both outliers be included or both ignored. How is a bad loss a fluke, but a great win isn't?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 28, 2007 15:35:33 GMT -5
Giga, I understand your thinking, but I'd rather have a win at Memphis on our resume and a loss to Bama or ODU or some other "bad" team than the other way around. People tend to forget losses to inferior teams (unless it becomes a trend) or they dismiss it as a fluke. A win at Memphis would have been a "statement," and could not be so easily dimissed given the caliber of both teams. Obviously, the big picture and March are more important, but if we won at Memphis, it would nullify the sting of any bad loss that came before it and could be written off as a let down if we lost to American or Fordham afterwards. Now, it's obviously a moot point, so here's hoping we beat everyone else. Go Hoyas!!! I think you make a great point. When it comes March Madness time, the first things that get mentioned are overall record, conference standing and the marquee wins you have on your resume'. In other words, a key win reflects as an indication of relative status while a stray loss is viewed as an off game/fluke. I guess if you had to simplify it, you would say that a loss to a Memphis "solidifies" your position as being inferior to Memphis but that a loss to an ODU or Bama team is viewed more as an outlier. I can see everyone's point but Ohio State got bombed on the road by two #1 seeds last year (Florida and UNC) and still got a #1 seed with no OOC wins of any importance. Yeah, I'd rather win than lose but these theories on how it hurts our seeding to lose to the #2 team on the road seem questionable. If the Hoyas win the Big East with an impressive record, it will be hard to use this loss against them.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Dec 28, 2007 16:03:52 GMT -5
I think you make a great point. When it comes March Madness time, the first things that get mentioned are overall record, conference standing and the marquee wins you have on your resume'. In other words, a key win reflects as an indication of relative status while a stray loss is viewed as an off game/fluke. I guess if you had to simplify it, you would say that a loss to a Memphis "solidifies" your position as being inferior to Memphis but that a loss to an ODU or Bama team is viewed more as an outlier. I can see everyone's point but Ohio State got bombed on the road by two #1 seeds last year (Florida and UNC) and still got a #1 seed with no OOC wins of any importance. Yeah, I'd rather win than lose but these theories on how it hurts our seeding to lose to the #2 team on the road seem questionable. If the Hoyas win the Big East with an impressive record, it will be hard to use this loss against them. I think the point is that there will be 6 or 8 teams that could arguably be a #1 seed. One of the major factors in choosing between them are marquee wins against other elite teams. Each team is likely to have between 2 and 4 losses, so a loss against a Bama, while a marquee win against another elite team would be front and center.
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