thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 8:57:37 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 8:57:37 GMT -5
So a pretty well documented report comes out that Bonds said, within earshot of others, that he didn't sign (for charity) "for white people." And Bonds has the stones to come back with a "my ex-wife was white" so "don't insult my family" defense. Oh, and this recieves approximately 2% of the press that it would have if John Rocker said he didn't sign things for black people. And yet, Bonds is a superstar and Rocker is a scrub. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 9:13:26 GMT -5
Post by showcase on Jun 10, 2005 9:13:26 GMT -5
Is it well documented (honest question)? I thought it was just in Ron Kittle's book. Now, being a White Sox fan, I love Kitty as much as the next Sox fan, but I wouldn't necessarily describe him as following in the best traditions of journalism/investigative reporting. Heck, Kitty's been known to have a bit of an uncontrollable mouth. Here's what ESPN's reporting (link's on the homepage as of Friday a.m.): Click Here.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 9:19:58 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 9:19:58 GMT -5
According to Kittles, Matt Williams and other Giants were in the room and heard it. Unless they come out and say something sternly to the contrary soon (which is certainly possible), I consider that well documented. Bonds doesn't deserve much benefit of the doubt as far as I am concerned. We know he is an a$$hole.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 9:25:13 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 9:25:13 GMT -5
Does Bonds' response strike you as compelling in the least? From what I can tell, it is comprised of two parts; 1. Kittles was a scrub. and 2. My ex-wife was white and my children are "half-white." Both non-sequitors as far as I am concerened.
I mean you didn't expect Bonds to come out and admit to a quote that is more than ten years old did you? He rebuttal means nothing to me at all. I find it far more likely to believe he said this than Kittles made it up, and couldn't come up with something better.
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 9:27:08 GMT -5
Post by showcase on Jun 10, 2005 9:27:08 GMT -5
Well, as much as I dislike Bonds, words said to a SportsIllustrated reported and words printed in Kitty's book don't have equal credibility and gravitas. I'm offering that only as an explanation for why people aren't making a bigger deal out of the latter.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 9:29:34 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 9:29:34 GMT -5
I think people are not going after it because they are partially intimidated by Bonds but mostly because sports journalists consider black racism far less acceptable a topic to attack than white racism, or at any rate they are personally far less comfortable investigating the possibility of black racism as they are white racism in a field where they cover mainly black athletes. They are afraid of it. And also, somewhat legitmately, the trail on this is bound to be quite cold. Nonetheless, if you took the exact situation and reversed the races, I am quite sure it would have been a bigger story. By far.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 9:45:45 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 9:45:45 GMT -5
The thing that gets me about the whole thing is the way, in typical Bonds fashion, he turns an ugly (and if you ask me quite believable) charge against HIMSELF into "don't attack my family." What horse$hit. And yet how typical. He's not attacking your family jerkoff, he is reporting what you said to him within earshot of others. No, its far from proven showcase, but this ain't a court of law and I find the charge FAR more believable than the denial.
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TigerHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,808
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 10:24:20 GMT -5
Post by TigerHoya on Jun 10, 2005 10:24:20 GMT -5
Every time somebody says something Bonds doesn't like he plays the racism card and the attack on his family card. This is just the first time he threw the two together like that since the accusation against him was racism this time.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 12:07:41 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Jun 10, 2005 12:07:41 GMT -5
I think people are not going after it because they are partially intimidated by Bonds but mostly because sports journalists consider black racism far less acceptable a topic to attack than white racism, or at any rate they are personally far less comfortable investigating the possibility of black racism as they are white racism in a field where they cover mainly black athletes. They are afraid of it. And also, somewhat legitmately, the trail on this is bound to be quite cold. Nonetheless, if you took the exact situation and reversed the races, I am quite sure it would have been a bigger story. By far. I'm going to chime on this. First we do not know what has been said. Unless you were in the room, you don't know what is actually said. Its obvious, thebin, that you despise Barry Bonds to say the least. My question is, why does he irk you so much? Does he negatively affect your paycheck? Has he physically harmed you before or something? The way your posts come off, they sound quite hostile towards Bonds. We don't know if what is alleged happened. So why are you so irate about this!? I'm not defending Bonds, but if we weren't in the room, we don't know what was said. People have a problem with Barry Bonds because he doesn't play the "game". And he is a black man who doesn't play the "game", which makes it even more of a problem for a lot of people in the media and mainstream America. Its the same thing JT2 faced during his tenure at G'town. I'm not talking about the baseball game or a basketball game, I'm talking about something totally different. Barry Bonds doesn't smile and show all of his teeth, and beg for the approval of his self-worth from the media and mainstream america. That is the problem a lot of people have with Barry Bonds. Barry is his own man, and walks to the beat of his own drum. That is the problem. Everbody in the media loves Tony Gwynn. But a lot of his baseball peers don't respect him because of his "media darling" status. He gets along with reporters,so he is deemed "classy" or "nice", everything he says is of very little substance, and thus he is a "good guy". Not to say there is nothing wrong with that. Gwynn IS a good guy,etc. But, Eddie Murray was a good too, but the media didn't like him. A lot of media people were debating whether to vote him a first-ballot hall of famer because of his distant relationship with the media. Murray, was a to-himself type guy. He didn't bother anybody, he just played his game,and wasn't into "schmoozing" with media-types. The media is a bunch a b.s. There are a lot of so-called "good guys" who aren't really "good", but they play the "game",so they get a free pass from the media. The media thinks you are a good guy when they can do whatever they want you and treat you like a puppet. Bonds is not fluff. He tells it like it is or how he sees it, whether you like it or not,whether you agree with it or not. Thats why the media hates him, and that is why mainstream America despises him. The fact that he is black and does this, brings another dimension to it. He knows this, and thats why he brings it up often.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 12:19:01 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 12:19:01 GMT -5
I gave up reading your response as soon as it was clear to me it was a "you just don't like him because he is black and rich" load of crap. Lots of people dislike this guy- you know why? Because he is an unmitigated A Hole. Not because "he doesn't play the game." True, he is a black A Hole, but I assure you the pigmentation is irrelevant for my purposes.
This is not a court, its a message board where we do just about nothing but speculate. So spare me the rules of evidence defense. Like I said, I find more reason to believe the accusation here than the denial. You can continue to prefer the denial if you like.
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TigerHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,808
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 12:28:18 GMT -5
Post by TigerHoya on Jun 10, 2005 12:28:18 GMT -5
I gave up reading your response as soon as it was clear to me it was a "you just don't like him because he is black and rich" load of crap. Lots of people dislike this guy- you know why? Because he is an unmitigated A Hole. Not because "he doesn't play the game." True, he is a black A Hole, but I assure you the pigmentation is irrelevant for my purposes. This is not a court, its a message board where we do just about nothing but speculate. So spare me the rules of evidence defense. Like I said, I find more reason to believe the accusation here than the denial. You can continue to prefer the denial if you like. A radio show here today (not a sports show either) made the point that Bonds idolizes Mays and that Mays is the same way. When one of the hosts pointed out that maybe Mays had a reason to be that way because of all the crap he put up with as a black man playing baseball when he did. The other host pointed out that Aaron probably caught 10 times as much hell and was still a classy person.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 12:29:59 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Jun 10, 2005 12:29:59 GMT -5
I gave up reading your response as soon as it was clear to me it was a "you just don't like him because he is black and rich" load of crap. Lots of people dislike this guy- you know why? Because he is an unmitigated A Hole. Not because "he doesn't play the game." True, he is a black A Hole, but I assure you the pigmentation is irrelevant for my purposes. This is not a court, its a message board where we do just about nothing but speculate. So spare me the rules of evidence defense. Like I said, I find more reason to believe the accusation here than the denial. You can continue to prefer the denial if you like. My post was not about being "black and rich load of crap". If you took the time and had an OPEN MIND and read my post entirely, you would know. Given your tone of response and previous responses it is pointless to have an intellectual discussion about this issue with you without your emotions and your insecurities coming into play. I'll just end this by saying: have a nice day.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 12:34:46 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 10, 2005 12:34:46 GMT -5
An intellectual discussion? All you did was completely ignore the charge, by saying it was unproven, and then start doing pop psychology on people that don't like this jerk. That's completely ignoring the issue. Someone has reported that Bonds said an atrociously racist thing, and Bond responds with: 1. He was a scrub, never heard of him. 2. If he comes and finds me, I'll beat him up. and 3. He is attacking my wife and children.
No he isn't Barry. He is calling you out. Stop hiding behind your "family" and take some responability for your actions like a man. Be it your alleged racism or drugs cheating.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 13:02:02 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jun 10, 2005 13:02:02 GMT -5
Guys I think this issue is much more simple then that-- a lot of people hold athletes and entertainers in higher regard for the reason they have fame/talent which is one of the dumbest things you can do---they are just as much a reflection upon society as we all are/see in everday life. So do I believe that Bonds could've said something like this and NOT be a racist? Yes. I also believe Ron Kittle could've chosen to stretch the truth a bit and thrown this in to gain off the negative publicity and dislike for Barry Bonds. Bonds could've declined his offer and Kittle might have stretched it by adding the "racist" comments.
All I know is that Sports hasn't changed when it comes to people--it's still full of same amount of nice people and bad people that we see everyday. Difference today is media and PR training they receive and some of the "great guys" media brags about as role models are scumballs and some of the "thugs" are much more real and nicer than they are portrayed. Image means a lot in terms of $$ and that's why I only judge players by what they do in their sport--because acting as if I know a thing about them off the court is absurd. I'm not supporting people because they are "great guys" I support them because they suit up for my teams in Sports. I hope they are all good people but reality says that won't be the case and it'll be same amount of people who are unlikeable as we encounter daily in our lives.
To me Barry Bonds is a guy who is immensely talented on the field--well he used to be as he's really only a great hitter now--but that's all that matters to me. I don't care if he's nice--that's not his job and he's not in my life, so why do I care about the other stuff? This is what irritates me about the Sports Media--Bonds can do what he wants whether we like him or not. Fact is I believe he used steriods but not to aid his performance as much as help him stay in lineup--I actually think he was using HGH more than Roids--just as Mark McGwire did and the bigger crime in terms of sports is the hype McGwire got--he should be chastised as much as a Giambi because he was a one dimensional ballplayer his entire career and cheated to stay around longer. Bonds was proven as a great, HOF player, and his cheating should tarnish him, but the fact he's singled out in hatred is simply because he was/is disliked in media and other circles and "Big MAC" is a media friendly person. Same with Giambi--he's liked because he kisses butt and they get "sympathy" while Bonds gets accusations and disgust. It's all the same--everyone who cheated should be tarnished, but if you want to be REAL about things--Bonds proved himself to be 10 times the player that McGwire, Sosa, Giambi were prior to his cheating-so that's where media plays a part in shaping things and shouldn't=-they need to report it as is and be real.
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Thomas
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 341
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 13:12:10 GMT -5
Post by Thomas on Jun 10, 2005 13:12:10 GMT -5
We can all agree that Barry Bonds is a JERK!! But you can't make any comparisons with John Rocker. John Rocker actually used racial slurs with a reporter and it was on the record. Barry Bonds situation with Ron Kittle is just a HE SAID/HE SAID situation. A lot of media outlets are discussing this situation, it's not like the story is being ignored. thebin, you should be satisfied with the way the media RIGHTFULLY rips Barry Bonds. A San Francisco newpaper ran a story about B.Bonds long relationship with his mistress. I'm pretty sure that is what caused the tantrum that B.Bonds threw a couple months ago where he made a bunch of ridiculous statements with his son standing next to him.
You guys have to like the way B.Bonds challenged Ron Kittle to meet him face to face. That's the ONLY charasteristic I like about B.Bonds. A pitcher for the Colorado Rockies hinted that B.Bonds used steroids and B.Bonds said, "If you have something to say to me, say it to my face. Don't run to the media like a coward."
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TigerHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,808
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Bonds
Jun 10, 2005 13:38:11 GMT -5
Post by TigerHoya on Jun 10, 2005 13:38:11 GMT -5
We can all agree that Barry Bonds is a JERK!! But you can't make any comparisons with John Rocker. John Rocker actually used racial slurs with a reporter and it was on the record. Barry Bonds situation with Ron Kittle is just a HE SAID/HE SAID situation. A lot of media outlets are discussing this situation, it's not like the story is being ignored. thebin, you should be satisfied with the way the media RIGHTFULLY rips Barry Bonds. A San Francisco newpaper ran a story about B.Bonds long relationship with his mistress. I'm pretty sure that is what caused the tantrum that B.Bonds threw a couple months ago where he made a bunch of ridiculous statements with his son standing next to him. You guys have to like the way B.Bonds challenged Ron Kittle to meet him face to face. That's the ONLY charasteristic I like about B.Bonds. A pitcher for the Colorado Rockies hinted that B.Bonds used steroids and B.Bonds said, "If you have something to say to me, say it to my face. Don't run to the media like a coward." Yeah, but when challenged to end the whole thing and take a drug test, Bonds whimpered.
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,884
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Bonds
Jun 11, 2005 17:13:23 GMT -5
Post by CTHoya08 on Jun 11, 2005 17:13:23 GMT -5
I think the incident could have easily happened, but probably is not as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. Bonds could have said he doesn't sign for white people with the intention of just messing with Kittle, but since Kittle wasn't really friends with Bonds and didn't know him, he may have walked away without realizing what was going on. I think Bonds was just fooling around with him if the statement was in fact made, but because Bonds has a reputation of being a jerk (among players, not just in the media) Kittle overreacted. But I have no way of knowing any more than anyone else who wasn't there.
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Bonds
Jun 11, 2005 18:44:49 GMT -5
Post by showcase on Jun 11, 2005 18:44:49 GMT -5
Nonsense. This whole thing is emblematic of the double standard for white athletes and black athletes. It's as clear as day, people.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,849
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Bonds
Jun 13, 2005 7:44:17 GMT -5
Post by thebin on Jun 13, 2005 7:44:17 GMT -5
Nonsense. This whole thing is emblematic of the double standard for white athletes and black athletes. It's as clear as day, people. Showcase, its not clear what you think is nonsense and what is the double standard. Could you explain pls?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,791
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Bonds
Jun 13, 2005 11:07:17 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 13, 2005 11:07:17 GMT -5
Who cares? Bonds is a prick; Rocker's a prick. What amazes me is that thebin seems to care this much about why people get upset more about one thing than another. Why is Paris Hilton famous? Why does Baseball Tonight spend 20 minutes rehashing every Yankee loss but spends 30 seconds on two first place teams battling on the west coast? Answer me those as well.
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