CO_Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,109
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Post by CO_Hoya on Nov 19, 2004 23:47:08 GMT -5
Jim Gray's voice is still shaking a couple of hours after the fight. Why couldn't someone gone after him?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 19, 2004 23:50:51 GMT -5
Jim Gray is such a pansy. Ever since that interview with Pete Rose during the All Star Game, I can't stand him. While I am not a Pete Rose fan, there is a time and place for everything.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 19, 2004 23:54:58 GMT -5
LOL, 007. I only had one minor altercation with a security guard who wanted me to believe that CFree was a shooter. I may be a fan, but, come on, put down the Kool Aid. Maybe that's because you don't stand in the front row. The staff can be a [PLEASE NO PROFANITY], I really can't stand them. They do everything they can to make the games not feel like college basketball. If we jumped forward slightly too much they were warning us to stay back, its ridiculous and I hate it. I could go on and on about how much I can't stand them. On January 24th after spending an entire night outside in the cold they would not let us into the lobby. They eventually did but once a large number of people had gathered they made us go back outside and wait in line. Then they tried to keep us quiet and told us to stop chanting stuff outside (Yes, some of it included things like F- Duke but what do you expect from a bunch of rowdy college kids getting ready for a big game) and threatend to call the police. They made things difficult once again when we got inside and a large number of us were thoroughly angry. Let's just say that students shouldnt have to deal with this much crap at their own arena. I can understand stopping F- Duke cheers but to try and stop all of our cheering and excitement was complete BS. Also, the crap they pulled inside was like they didnt want us to be there and were making things as hard as possible for us. I HATE MCI STAFF!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2004 0:44:34 GMT -5
This was the most unreal thing I've ever seen, and that includes when the fans rushed the court against 'Cuse in 2001 and my friends got forearms to the face and punches to the midsection by the MCI staff (although I was able to get on the front page of the Post sports section!!! Pictoral evidence available if needed). Artest was dumb for running into the stands, but the fact is after that fans were on the court and coming after the Pacers players and I can't say I blame them for defending themselves at that point. If this had happened in the CITY of Detroit, there wouldn't have been a security issue. I've been to four Red Wings games in my life, and 2 of them were playoff games where the Red Wings lost, stuff was tossed on the ice, and the De-troit po-lice CRACKED DOWN IMMEDIATELY. Auburn Hills and the Pistons security staff simply weren't prepared for this. EVERYONE is to blame, especialy the fans.
GO HOYAS!!!
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Hank Scorpio
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
You're gonna die now!
Posts: 573
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Post by Hank Scorpio on Nov 20, 2004 0:49:46 GMT -5
i'm giving artest a pass too for his on the court actions. after dishing out a hard, but not flagrant, foul, he got clocked in the face, didn't retaliate, and kept himself out of the fray that took place on the court for the most part. that he was lying down on the scorer's table is not a big deal to my mind. so what? apparently he was being interviewed by the local pacers radio broadcast as he was lying there, and he didn't lose his mind until some bozo threw a beer at him. after that, all hell broke loose, and i can't possibly condone him going up into the stands and taking it there, but i'd be lying if i said i didn't take great pleasure in watching the tough guys that tossed the beer run like hell when they realized what they were in for. also, i have no problem with the way Artest dropped that fat dude that stepped to him with his arms cocked who was on the floor. if you step onto the court and run up on a guy, it's open season.
Ben Wallace was the agressor. He got fouled, shoved Artest in the face, and then followed him towards the scorer's table after Artest backed off. I think he threw a towel in Artest's direction, too. I'd like to think that he'll get a majority of the blame, if he just shoots his free throws, none of this goes down.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 20, 2004 0:56:49 GMT -5
This was the most unreal thing I've ever seen, and that includes when the fans rushed the court against 'Cuse in 2001 and my friends got forearms to the face and punches to the midsection by the MCI staff See! More Proof that MCI Staff [EDITED]
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2004 1:01:50 GMT -5
'007... you have no idea. My friend had to get [EDITED] STITCHES after that melee. We actually went to Lang and Esh after that and (obviously) got rebuffed and couldn't get an audience with them. So guess who we got directed to? YOU GOT IT!! KIM FRANK!!! I'll give you one guess as to what happened after that.
Either way, I jumped the rope and got onto the court with about 1 second left on the clock so I got on the front page of the Post Sports section, but when the masses came, people got tackled, and I PERSONALLY know of people who were punched, tackled, forearms into the backs to keep people down. It was horrible in retrospect, but you never heard anything about it because heaven forbid the Hoyas strain relations with MCI.
GO HOYAS!!! GET BACK ON CAMPUS!!!
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 20, 2004 1:05:50 GMT -5
SEE PEOPLE, I'M NOT MAKING THIS STUFF UP!!! THAT IS HORRIBLE!!! I'm very serious that the MCI Staff is a serious problem, so Jersey, don't even jokingly give me that crap about them not being problematic.
I Hate the Staff situation and if we get any [PLEASE NO PROFANITY] this year I am causing a major uproar. What if we beat Illinois in a major upset and they tried to keep us off the court, that would be complete bull. I understand safety concerns but this is college basketball and they need to let us have that environment.
DOWN WITH THE MCI STAFF! MY NEXT PROJECT!!!!
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 20, 2004 1:09:50 GMT -5
'007... you have no idea. My friend had to get f'n STITCHES after that melee. We actually went to Lang and Esh after that and (obviously) got rebuffed and couldn't get an audience with them. So guess who we got directed to? YOU GOT IT!! KIM FRANK!!! I'll give you one guess as to what happened after that. Either way, I jumped the rope and got onto the court with about 1 second left on the clock so I got on the front page of the Post Sports section, but when the masses came, people got tackled, and I PERSONALLY know of people who were punched, tackled, forearms into the backs to keep people down. It was horrible in retrospect, but you never heard anything about it because heaven forbid the Hoyas strain relations with MCI. GO HOYAS!!! GET BACK ON CAMPUS!!! Maybe if you went to Shapland the Janitor, he would have been willing to clean up the bloody mess. Seriously, that whole Syracuse court rush was crazy. Someone broke a leg while climbing over the seats in an attempt to evade the security.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,595
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 20, 2004 2:05:38 GMT -5
Please remember the following rules that some of you appear to have forgotten tonight:
4. No profanity. Avoid any words you would hesitate to use in front of your children or your family. Let's keep the tone above that of a chat room. 5. Using keyboard characters around objectionable words to avoid the wrath of a board moderator is not acceptable.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,419
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Post by aggypryd on Nov 20, 2004 6:40:16 GMT -5
i'm giving artest a pass too for his on the court actions. after dishing out a hard, but not flagrant, foul, he got clocked in the face, didn't retaliate, and kept himself out of the fray that took place on the court for the most part. He didn't retaliate because he knew that Wallace probably would have killed him... He may be crazy...but he ain't THAT crazy...
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Nov 20, 2004 7:30:56 GMT -5
My $.02... I think any fans who can be arrested and prosecuted should be. But the NBA's focus has to be on controlling the controlable- not having players go into the stands. YOu can't control 18,000 paying fans, but you MUST control 30 paid professionals. I saw several Pacers hit fans with punches that could never be called "self-defense." Jermaine O'Neal suckered some fan who was reeling on the court. I am hearing the Canadian dude who hosts Sports Reporters (Saunders?) say that he doesn't blame the players for throwing punches at all because they were hit with plastic cups. I am sorry, I generally like that guy, but that is [EDITED]. Are these guys thugs or paid professionals? Actually you do have to not attack someone who merely throws a beer on you (legally speaking)- especially if you are not sure who did it and you are in danger of starting a friggen riot when you do it. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for fans throwing crap, but the Sportscenter panel is rallying to the players too much for my taste. Ultimately, Wallace laid the seed by his posturing after a hard but not flagrant foul- and he needs to pay for that. And Artest and Jackson are ultimately responsible for enacting the worst action of the night by any party- going into the stands and throwing punches. I think Walace needs 5 games, Artest and Jackson 10 plus, and Oneil 10 or so although punching a player on the court is always different than doing it in the stands.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Nov 20, 2004 7:43:54 GMT -5
Artest is getting way too much of a free pass- not for his reaction to Wallace's over-reaction. THat was reserved enough, even the weird scoring table thing. But you CAN NEVER give a pass for rushing into the stands- which WAS the precipitating factor to a riot. Fans must stay in the stands, players on the court. And a player must be a man and not a child and control himself when hit with beer and wait for the securty/polic to eject the thower- or barring that, flee the court and hit the lockeroom telling the refs to control it or call it. Its so sad that people think that that kind of restraint is beyond reasonable.
And as for blaming the security- come on, how could they ever be ready for a riot like this? They should have cameras in the stands and enough cops to eject beer-throwing fans and make sure they NEVER get in a game again- but they can't stop a riot precipitated by players attacking people in the stands.
Its generally not "self-defense" when you attack someone with punches who you think might have been the one who threw a beer on you. I know I MIGHT have acted the same way- but it would not have been self-defense- it would have been illegal retalliation. And that is what it was.
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aggypryd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,419
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Post by aggypryd on Nov 20, 2004 9:04:58 GMT -5
My $.02... I think any fans who can be arrested and prosecuted should be. But the NBA's focus has to be on controlling the controlable- not having players go into the stands. YOu can't control 18,000 paying fans, but you MUST control 30 paid professionals. I saw several Pacers hit fans with punches that could never be called "self-defense." Jermaine O'Neal suckered some fan who was reeling on the court. I am hearing the Canadian dude who hosts Sports Reporters (Saunders?) say that he doesn't blame the players for throwing punches at all because they were hit with plastic cups. I am sorry, I generally like that guy, but that is [EDITED]. Are these guys thugs or paid professionals? Actually you do have to not attack someone who merely throws a beer on you (legally speaking)- especially if you are not sure who did it and you are in danger of starting a friggen riot when you do it. Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for fans throwing crap, but the Sportscenter panel is rallying to the players too much for my taste. Ultimately, Wallace laid the seed by his posturing after a hard but not flagrant foul- and he needs to pay for that. And Artest and Jackson are ultimately responsible for enacting the worst action of the night by any party- going into the stands and throwing punches. I think Walace needs 5 games, Artest and Jackson 10 plus, and Oneil 10 or so although punching a player on the court is always different than doing it in the stands. Those fans got exactly what they deserved... It's bad enough that they have to put up with verbal abuse, including the racial slurs... Vernon Maxwell had a seriously ill child and a fan yelled out something about that...Is it OK for them to do that? When you decide that you want to throw things at players because of something that they did on the court to someone on your team, I think that is a problem... If they decided to chase those fans to the parking lot and beat the hell out of them, I wouldn't have had a problem...
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Nov 20, 2004 10:09:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry but the way the ESPN panel (Legler, G. Anthony, etc.) let Artest off the hook was INEXCUSABLE. The man was hit with a CUP - under no circumstances did that justify his response. The fact that the ESPN guys were all pro-Artest last night was driving me crazy. I mean, what are these people thinking? A cup of beer does not justify going into stands, fists swinging. Grow up Artest.
PS: I am neither condoning nor defending the fans' conduct - but as NBA professionals we should expect more from the players.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,595
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 20, 2004 11:11:44 GMT -5
NOBODY covered themselves in good behavior at the end of that game last night. NOBODY.
That said, the guy that threw the beer cup at Artest and subsequently sucker punched him in the head from behind a couple of times deserves prosecution, as do some of the players. Things likely would have calmed down without that match thrown on the fire.
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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Post by JimmyHoya on Nov 20, 2004 12:57:36 GMT -5
was Artest a psycho like this at St. John's? I always remember hating the guys guts...but untill he got to the NBA and started needing attention, I don't remember him being crazy...intense, but nothing like last night...
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Post by HoyaOnBothSides on Nov 20, 2004 13:54:00 GMT -5
The only people I feel bad for, and very bad at that, are the parents who took their little children to the game only to have them witness the lowest humanity has to offer. This is the same way I feel about families taking their children to Georgetown games (and most college basketball games for that matter) only to witness drunk, spoiled fans (mostly students) who think they have an influence on the game embarass themselves.
This idea in fans' heads that they have some sort of right to influence the outcome of the game with their purchase of a ticket, combined with overconsumption of alcohol, is what this is all about and why is it amazing things like this don't happen more often.
It's for this same reason I think the whole rushing the court argument and protests against MCI security is off-base. Your ticket does not entitle you to be on the court, bottom-line, and it is security force's job to keep you off of it, like it or not. You are also interfering with many people and their families who have no intention of rushing the court and just want to enjoy the event.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2004 14:03:29 GMT -5
I disagree about the MCI staff, 'bothsides. First, the students were rushing at the END of the game from the STUDENT section, thereby not in any way interfering with anyone's enjoyment. Second, it was a celebratory thing, college kids doing what college kids do. If they don't want kids rushing the court, don't have college hoops games there. If anyone ceased enjoying the event because the kids rushed the court, their last name was either Boeheim or they were 'Cuse fans who were Editeded because their highly ranked Orangemen lost to the (at that time) up-and-coming Hoyas. This was a Saturday afternoon, hardly a riot, hardly a lot of kids... their tactics were inexcusable. Period.
GO HOYAS!!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2004 14:11:19 GMT -5
This also doesn't take into account the game-to-game attitude of the MCI staff that is blatantly anti-student. For the last 5 minutes of what seemed like every game when I was there, the "MCI Army" would stand in front of us blocking our view and to ensure we didnt' cause any trouble (what are they expecting when GU plays Howard? TROUBLE??). I had friends THROWN OUT because they were repeatedly "in the aisles" and not directly in their aisle seat. LEGIT, NON-VULGAR signs were routinely taken away, torn up. This isn't an NBA game where anyone in the lower bowl is shelling out lotsa money for a seat. This is a STUDENT SECTION where students are cheering on their team. In four years I went to every game but 3 and I never heard any near-by fans complaining about student behavior. The MCI Army is more often than not, in my opinion, overstepping their bounds and its THEIR behavoir that leads me to believe we need an on-campus arena much sooner than many believe, simply because they ruin the experience for many of the team's most passionate fans.
GO HOYAS!!!
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