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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 29, 2006 11:25:32 GMT -5
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 29, 2006 11:40:38 GMT -5
Welcome to the new Soviet Union - maybe.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 29, 2006 12:09:48 GMT -5
It is ironic that if his entire economic transition plan had been enacted then strong-men would never have poisoned him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2006 14:29:19 GMT -5
Does the article REALLY refer to him as a "tubby economist"? That's hysterical....
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Post by HoyaOnBothSides on Nov 29, 2006 14:34:02 GMT -5
Talk about russians with mysteriuous illnesses! i grew up in brighton beach...i saw russians with all kinds of crazy stuff, including:
Moneylaunderatosis, where one is so hyper he needs to pass 10 different businesses through one location every year
Insurancescamapnia, where people come down with the uncontrollable urge to put florida licence plates on their black mercedes' SUVs that never leave new york
Moneyoverseasaria - where one comes down with a fever fir selling food stamps and medicare/medicade drugs for cash while living off money the government can't track.
Sadly, the more things change, the more they stay the same...
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 29, 2006 16:42:44 GMT -5
Talk about russians with mysteriuous illnesses! i grew up in brighton beach...i saw russians with all kinds of crazy stuff, including: Moneylaunderatosis, where one is so hyper he needs to pass 10 different businesses through one location every year Insurancescamapnia, where people come down with the uncontrollable urge to put florida licence plates on their black mercedes' SUVs that never leave new york Moneyoverseasaria - where one comes down with a fever fir selling food stamps and medicare/medicade drugs for cash while living off money the government can't track. Sadly, the more things change, the more they stay the same... You forgot about the new Russians who earn Reward Points "crazy fast".
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 29, 2006 16:44:43 GMT -5
Welcome to the new Soviet Union - maybe. I think its worse, ed, I'll take a wolf any day as opposed to a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 29, 2006 16:49:42 GMT -5
A law of nature - SPH will respond, not positively, to anything EasyEd posts.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 29, 2006 16:57:03 GMT -5
A law of nature - SPH will respond, not positively, to anything EasyEd posts. Lol. I think we both agree its bad though. That's a start right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2006 17:22:42 GMT -5
Welcome to the new Soviet Union - maybe. (Pulls pin on grenade...) Russia finds itself in this horrid state of affairs - a poor economy, the KGB still knocking people off, domestic genocide/civil war/ethnic strife, an inability to put an end to the role the nation plays in the global sex/slave trade, the government funding a "terrorist state" - all because of the complete and absolute failures of one man: Ronald Regan. (... drops grenade, runs away laughing maniacally.)
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 29, 2006 22:09:56 GMT -5
Yeah Regan totally won the cold war. He went to Berlin told Gorbachev to tear down the wall and 4 years later after several governments failed in the Eastern Bloc the wall was torn down by the German people/David Hasselhoff. The time he stood on the tank in Moscow was cool though - oh wait that was Yeltsin and Regan wasn't even in office then.
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HoyaInsomniac
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
This is it. Don't get scared now.
Posts: 360
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Post by HoyaInsomniac on Nov 29, 2006 22:30:59 GMT -5
Buffalo, I love you.
How many grenades have you dropped now, 14?
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Nov 30, 2006 12:10:33 GMT -5
(Pulls pin on grenade...) Russia finds itself in this horrid state of affairs - a poor economy, the KGB still knocking people off, domestic genocide/civil war/ethnic strife, an inability to put an end to the role the nation plays in the global sex/slave trade, the government funding a "terrorist state" - all because of the complete and absolute failures of one man: Ronald Regan. (... drops grenade, runs away laughing maniacally.) (picks up grenade, looks at Milbarge...) "What's this?"(Milbarge replies) "YOU DON'T WANT IT!"(tosses grenade in direction of fleeing BuffaloHoya) Cue 'Soul Finger' by The Bar-Kays
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 30, 2006 13:19:14 GMT -5
Yes, all Reagan did was stand there and say "Tear down this wall, Mr. Gorbachev". I guess he did not build up our defense establishment, institute the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI)(mockingly called Star Wars) and force the Soviets to match his defense buildup and bankrupt themselves or fall way behind. It is also a fact that the liberal/progressive opposition and press fought SDI every step of the way as they did every major military item Reagan pressed on with. Now, with North Korea building nuclear-tipped missiles we are frantically trying to develop an anti-missile defense system (SDI light). And some are complaining today that our Armed Forces are not large enough.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 30, 2006 13:21:18 GMT -5
(ed picks up the grenade and runs it into the endzone, starts celebrating and realizes its ticking)
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Nov 30, 2006 13:32:05 GMT -5
You're right that Regan did all of those things Ed. It didn't matter to the same degree that internal issues in the Eastern Bloc and Soviet Union did. Its not like to Politburo got together one night and said "well, crap, they have satelites with laser beams, lets call them and tell them that they've won". Regan ratcheted up the costs of being in the Cold War but he had the good fortune of doing it at a time that the Soviet Union was tearing itself apart because of Gorbachev's policies of apointing 1st Secretaries of the 15 Union Republics that were actually from the area and allowing them to be fairly autonomous. The nationality question came up at a time when the press was being opened to more criticism - this exacerbated the issue and meant that Gorbachev was spending more and more time dealing with domestic problems. When civil rights issues popped up in Eastern Europe the Soviet Union had to let those Eastern Bloc countries deal with those issues on their own. Making the Soviet Union have to spend money on defense at the time certainly helped, but it wasn't a determining factor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2006 14:01:22 GMT -5
(picks up grenade, looks at Milbarge...) "What's this?"(Milbarge replies) "YOU DON'T WANT IT!"(tosses grenade in direction of fleeing BuffaloHoya) Cue 'Soul Finger' by The Bar-Kays A few more gems: "These men are Yousefsai. Afghani freedom fighters. They're our allies!" "WE'RE AMERICANS!!!" "Doctor. Doctor. Glad I'm not sick." "Boys... it'd be a shame to have to kill you now." "Ohhhhh... so YOU'RE the other G.L.G.-20's!" "Why don't you gentlemen have a Pepsi?" (Courtesy of B.B. King in the GREATEST random cameo in cinematic history!)
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 30, 2006 16:28:11 GMT -5
I didn't say that Reagan was solely responsible for the breakup of the Soviet Union. What I did say was that he did more than say "tear down this wall" and then stand by as other forces brought about the breakup. Reagan's policies were among the main causes of the breakup. To imply otherwise is rewriting history to conform to one's view, probably, I might add, advanced by some prof(s) at Georgetown.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2006 17:02:10 GMT -5
The Soviet bloc broke up 15 years ago, with the promise of democracy and free markets for all, and happiness and joy until the end of time. After the initial euphoria wore off, "free" elections left us with the like of Yanukovych in Ukraine (ousted thanks to the Orange Revolution) and Lukaschenko in Belarus (and what a disaster THAT is still, 12 years later). Outside of the former Soviet states, voters have swung back to much more dangerous leaders in Poland (the Kaczynski brothers), among others (in less important positions). Not to mention the ongoing mess in the South Caucasus and - of course- Borat!
In all seriousness, the US government can't just blow stuff up, install democratic systems, and HOPE that things all work out. It's about follow-up. The most stable places in Eastern Europe are the places where NGOs (often with US govt support) went in early, taught people about civil society and political systems, and established a belief in the positive effects. None of these things have happened to any effective extent in the former USSR, and now we're stuck with Putin and friends, and all of the attendant issues that come with it. And - as long as Russia has control over pipelines and oil - they've got us and everyone else by the short ones....I'm guessing we'll have something similar in Iraq if/when the fighting dies down.
Democracy and free markets are great, but they're not a magic potion - they don't work without the follow-up. Eastern Germany is - 15 years after reunification - a disaster when compared to the Western half of the country (AND they had the advantage of rolling into an established political system and economy).
Yeah, Reagan did a ton to facilitate the breakup of the Soviet bloc, and for that he deserves credit. But the promise of democracy has failed in too many places over the past 15 years to give him immunity from criticism. And GWB seems to be heading down that same path in Iraq (admittedly, on a smaller scale, but...). If you're gonna break something, you better have a plan to fix it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2006 17:04:56 GMT -5
Wow - that's the most serious thing I've posted here in a long time. Enough of that. Back to nonsense.
"Jesus! Where'd you learn your Russian? JC Penney?!?"
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