Rudy for Prez?

[Deleted]

Breaking news over on CNN.com says he has filed the papers to form an exploratory committee.

Granted the guy is popular because in the ashes of 9/11 he "showed great leadership" and all the other tired old cliches.

I don't mean to cast dispersions on his actions post 9/11, but I have a question for the New Yorkers on the board - wasn't Rudy generally DISLIKED by the majority of New Yorkers before the tragedy?

I seem to recall my NY friends not thinking too highly of him as of September 10th, a few of which have since re-confirmed those sentiments.

[Boz]

Freakin' Guiliani!

snltranscripts.jt.org/97/97gcabbie.phtml

[EasyEd]

Conservatives will never support him.

[williambraskyiii]

to be honest, i don't care whether the "conservatives" will support him, whatever that means. If you mean the crazy evangelicals, or the war hawks, or the corrupts aholes, they all had a part in losing the Congress for Republicans.

Giuliani is a populist who will take the hardline republican positions when necessary...McCain is the same way...i would love to see either one of these guys take the frontrunning position for the Repub nomination rather than some blowhard like Bill Frist

and no - giuliani was a very very popular governor...sure his popularity was uneven, but not one new yorker can argue that he made nyc a great place to live again...even in the years since he stepped down i have seen a regression...he was an ass-kicker and that is awesome, plus he was stoic and sensational after 9/11 showing true leadership...his only misstep was probably the whole trying to run for another term thing...and judith nathan.

[SirSaxa]

williambraskyiii said:

and no - giuliani was a very very popular governor...sure his popularity was uneven, but not one new yorker can argue that he made nyc a great place to live again...even in the years since he stepped down i have seen a regression...he was an ass-kicker and that is awesome, plus he was stoic and sensational after 9/11 showing true leadership...his only misstep was probably the whole trying to run for another term thing...and judith nathan.

I hate to disagree with you William, but he was a highly unpopular figure in NYC on 9/10/01. His relationship with the minority communities was abysmal -- remember the 42 shots fired on the guy who was taking out his wallet?

Rudy also announced his divorce to the news media before telling his wife and kids.

He spent a LOT of time worry about artwork in NYC museums.

He has a huge ego and fired people who started to get their own notice -- like W. Bratton, Police commissioner.

He was like a little despot with NYC schools.

No, Rudy was NOT well liked.

On 9/11 however, he took charge and amazingly found the right voice - a combination of sensitivity, calm, and determination. For the succeeding couple of months, he did a great job. But you are right that he went way over the line by trying to rewrite the law to allow himself to stay on the job after his term was up.

[nychoya3]

Only misstep? Only misstep! (deep breath....)

How about the ridiculously irresponsible budgeting that left Bloomberg with a gaping hole in the city's budget that took major tax cuts and two years of 20% approval ratings to close?

How about appointing a wide array of complete and total hacks to major position? Bernard Kerik anyone? How about Ray Harding's kid? Oh yeah, he got arrested for possessing kiddie porn. He was a class act. But his dad controlled a party line, so he was terrific.

How about Diallo? Or the latter case where he released the guys sealed criminal record after he got shot by the cops? Great moves, those. He went years without EVEN meeting with black community leaders out of spite. He's a uniter, not a divider.

He hired Bill Bratton and gave him enough power to do his job. I give him that. But Rudy didn't create CompSTAT, and he didn't end the crack epidemic. New York certainly got nicer under his "leadership," but not because of it.

Rudy had good fortune on three accounts: Being Mayor during the stock boom that swelled the tax base and transformed the city; Being appropriately stoic for the gravity of 9/11 (though he didn't DO anything; and looking good in a suit. That's about it. Not even getting into the fact that he'll never get the GOP nod, the guy is a complete and total jerk with no business in public office.

There are also far too many photos of him in drag for him to ever be elected president.

EDIT: Wanted to add that he was unable to establish mayoral control of the NYC schools because he refused to work with the council or anyone else to make it happen. Bloomberg got control by actually, you know, talking with other people. Rudy doesn't do that.

Mike Bloomberg is ten times the Mayor Rudy ever was, and the only thing Rudy has on him is an ego the size of the Empire State Building.

[Filo]

Gee, I'm thinking nychoya03 may be there Donna Hanover's brother os sumthin' (just a joke).

There's truth in both sides re: Rudy. I was living in NYC during his tenure -- he did some things right, and others pretty terribly.

As pointed out, his relationship with minority communities was abysmal, and this would definitely come back to haunt him if he were to run for a national office given that Republicans have a bad rep (in general) on that front as it is.

[CAHoya07]

Ironically, this article came out in the Hoya on Friday:

thehoya.com/viewpoint/111006/view2.cfm

And for the record, I really don't like this guy. He writes the same partisan schtick over and over again, it really gets old.

[jerseyhoya34]

I don't have a dog in the Rudy fight, but I would like to see the Republicans go back to a more moderate course and away from the neoconservative agenda. Hopefully the greater involvement of some of 41's advisors can set that process in motion now.

[EasyEd]

I find it amazing my saying that conservatives would not support Rudy led to a rant about "crazy evangelicals", "war hawks" and "corrupt aholes". First off, evangelicals are not crazy. Just because they believe that the killing of an innocent human life is wrong and that marriage should be confined to one man and one woman (like 9 of 10 states voted on Nov. 2) - and those views don't agree with yours - that makes all of them "crazy"? Second, you may not like it but radical Islam is something you (maybe not me since I'm old) will have to face head-on in the future, either in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, France, Britain or elsewhere and I just hope for some "war hawks" when that happens. And, finally, "corrupt aholes" should not be applied to all conservatives, much less all Republicans or Democrats (see Murtha and William Jefferson).
I made a simple statement that conservatives will not support Rudy and I stand by that. If the only Republican choices are between Rudy and McCain, many conservatives will hold their noses and choose McCain while others will stay home.

[nychoya3]

Bill, with all respect, particularly since you are 9 feet tall, I don't get this at all. All the elements of competence and seriousness that people attribute to Rudy because of his incredible moral certainty that pervades everything he does - he doesn't actually possess those qualities. He is good at play acting them before the cameras, but that's it.

No kidding NYC got better while Rudy was Mayor. But there's a difference between correlation and causation. The big changes that swelled the tax base and cut crime so steadily were not caused by Rudy Giulliani. He didn't slash and burn anything - he rode a wave of social change and a booming stock market, and had the wisdom to at least let Bratton rebuild the NYPD from the ground up.

Finally, David Dinkins was a singularly uninspiring Mayor, but a "degenerate?" What? I mean, you support a guy who rubbed his adultery in the face of just about everyone and who's first marriage was to his second cousin. Degenerate?

[AustinHoya03]

While I agree Rudy "cleaned up" Manhattan, I don't know if the regression in terms of seediness can be attributed to the fact that Rudy is no longer the mayor. I'm pretty sure some of that is cyclical/based on other factors.

FWIW, I am all for drops in the crime rate, but is the yuppification of the old middle-class neighborhoods really all that cool? I just hope I can still find a bar in New York where I can get a cheap PBR in a can in 10 years. Dropping 9 bucks per on vodka-sodas blows. Thank God I live in a town with an abundance of $2 tall boys.

[hifigator]

I am still a registered Republican although I prefere to vote for Libertarians in general ... except for the fact that there aren't any of them running normally. I would like to see more of a fiscal conservative running for the Republicans and one who at least doesn't keep controversial social issues at the forefront. In essence, above all else I want an electable Republican. My personal views on many things are essentially not any of government's business and I think that oftentimes the ultraconservative right is counterproductive as they alienate many moderates who might otherwise side with them. I think McCain is a bit of a flake. Rudy has some skeletons in the closet no doubt, but unless there is something more serious out there (and there might be) but as of right now I would support a Giuliani ticket. I would like to see him running with another moderate and preferably one "of color." I think a Giuliani-Rice ticket for instance could be attractive. ANd I wouldn't rule out a Giuliani-Powell either. I don't really see a McCain-Giuliani or Giuliani-McCain as a possibility though.

I also wouldn't mind a Romney-Giuliani ticket, and I could see Mitt selecting Rudy if he gets the nomination.

[hifigator]

brasky, it took us a while, but we finally found something we pretty much agree on. I hope that doesn't make you want to change your mind.

[williambraskyiii]

austin, this isnt destruction of middle-class neighborhoods but rather gentrification of slums. Alphabet City for one used to be known as a place where no one ever should wander past ave. A...in fact, according to wikipedia, it was

A = Alive
B = Brave
C= Crazy
D= Dead

This place was a total slum - now it retains the diverse flavor of several different nationalities still inhabiting the neighborhood as evidenced by its amazing restaurants, but has seen a renewal because of capital infusion and a populace that has $$. If that is a bad thing, then i don't want to be right. you have to follow market demand, and if that means moving people out b/c of the potential for bigger rents and higher profits, that is economic reality.

[duxnews]

The day Republicans choose a pro-choice, thrice-married, big-city New Yorker to run for president is probably far far away. And considering that he's just been writing books, consulting, making speeches (all for big $$), and campaigning here and there over the past five years, I'm not sure he has the same political capital he once did. Once the campaigns get kicking, rural and religious America probably won't like it as more details of his checkered personal life come out.

Romney's the guy to beat. If a conservative Mormon can win big in Massachusetts, he can win anywhere and everywhere.

[tgo]

and no one has mentioned the run for senate. guiliani is to blame for us having hillary in the senate. sure, it was a close race but at the time i thought he was going to win, by no means a certainty but then he bowed out, worst of all, it was way too late for anyone else to come in and mount anything resembling the type of campaign you would need to defeat her. i still dont understand what happened there with rudy, since then, he is dead to me, but if the choice is him or mccain then i might go with rudy, since mccain seems to have no principles, at least on the legislative front. oh yeah, i forgot, he is a maverick, which apparently means he needs to be all over the place while bringing us the affront to the first amendment that is McCain-Feingold.

those who would like a "moderate" gop prez candidate, what does that mean?

right now you have a gop prez who never met an expansion of government he didnt like, thinks that those who break the law to enter this country should be given special priveledges. someone who hasnt fought for judicial nominees who have been blocked by the dems the way he could or should have, someone who nominated harriet miers for crying out loud, a prez who has our armed forces building nations instead of winning wars or defending our borders. someone who couldn’t spell veto no matter how bad the bill or how big the increase in spending is? and he is so extreme how? beacuse he won much needed tax cuts that have expanded the economy? because has a strong faith that he isnt afraid to talk about that plays a huge roll in shaping who he is and by extension his opinions and actions? Doesn’t sound so “extreme” to me. Seems like most people think moderate means someone who agrees with them, everyone else is extreme.

i think that a moderate democrat doesn’t believe in a complete socialist state and is not a racist. Most democrats, or at least the ones who are in the leadership of their party, are not moderates by that standard. I am not sure of the definition of a moderate republican, probably easier to define from the other side (although I loath to identify myself with todays republican party). If I had to I guess such a person would believe there a select few areas where the state does better than the private sector and they don’t vote with the social/religious side of the party on some issues. I guess I answer my own question then since bush doesn’t fulfill the second part of that equation, however, he more than over compensates in other areas.

Rant over, back to work.

Hoya Saxa

[HealyHoya]

tgo said:

i think that a moderate democrat doesn’t believe in a complete socialist state and is not a racist. Most democrats, or at least the ones who are in the leadership of their party, are not moderates by that standard. I am not sure of the definition of a moderate republican, probably easier to define from the other side (although I loath to identify myself with todays republican party). If I had to I guess such a person would believe there a select few areas where the state does better than the private sector and they don’t vote with the social/religious side of the party on some issues. I guess I answer my own question then since bush doesn’t fulfill the second part of that equation, however, he more than over compensates in other areas.

Rant over, back to work.

Hoya Saxa

I don't want to get into an off-topic rant -- I realize this thread is about a potential Giuliani run for the presidency -- but the discussions above about moderate-this and moderate-that caught my eye. It seems that moderate Republicans are easy (easier?) to identify -- McCain, Giuliani, Lindsey Graham, Colin Powell, et al. But what of the moderate Democrats? Who are they? In what do they beleive? This seems are more difficult question to answer. A harder group to describe...

Let me try: While the typical major-media explanation for the recent GOP slaughter at the hands of the rowdy populace was Iraq, GOP corruption and frustration with GWB, the issues that actually got people out of bed, off from work and into the voting booths had more to do with stagnant wages, the ever-increasing cost of healthcare and the fear that low- and medium-tech jobs are going to be exported to China and India.

These people, living and voting in fly-over country (or, if you sell trucks, America's Heartland), generally speaking, sent to Washington, DC Democrats who believe (or, at least, profess publicly to believe) in God and guns but distrust big business and free trade.

In truth, the lefties in the Democrat party will likely shout the loudest (expect hearings and investigations into oil profits, Big Pharma and the like), but achieve little. In fact, the focus ought to be on bolstering the things they like, not tearing down the things they hate. We will hear rants against oil profits but see increased subsidies for alternative fuels. We will hear D's bashing the wealthy but bolstering the middle class. On trade, many, many Democrats will rail against the imbalance in trade agreements that have long harmed the American worker. The anticipated response? Taking steps to better insure wages and re-educate workers while making health coverage more comprehensive and portable.

Many of these center-left ideas have promise. Importantly, they have the support of many of the newly-elected Senators and Congressman. A good number of the frontrunners from the left (Obama, Clinton et al) for '08 espouse these positions.

[tgo]

i agree that centrist democrats won the congress in 2006 but the main reason they were able to is that the republican base has been disenfranchised and has no party to vote for and has finally had enough. elections are about turning out your base and getting your base to turn out the middle and that is even more true in mid-term elections since the independents and undecideds dont think it important enough to vote in large numbers. People who agree with the GOP in principle or on paper like me (no one could agree with the GOP in practice on a national level since it doesnt stand for or do anything other than try to stay in power) still voted but they werent motivated to donate as much or work phone lines or get people to the polls and if there was a democrat who wasnt an complete socialist and racist in their district then they wouldnt have seen much reason to vote at all to keep them from getting into power.

[Cambridge]

austinhoya03 said:

While I agree Rudy "cleaned up" Manhattan, I don't know if the regression in terms of seediness can be attributed to the fact that Rudy is no longer the mayor. I'm pretty sure some of that is cyclical/based on other factors.

FWIW, I am all for drops in the crime rate, but is the yuppification of the old middle-class neighborhoods really all that cool? I just hope I can still find a bar in New York where I can get a cheap PBR in a can in 10 years. Dropping 9 bucks per on vodka-sodas blows. Thank God I live in a town with an abundance of $2 tall boys.

"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas."

God bless Austin, the greatest town in America. Austin, where you living?

I spend a lot of time down there as my fiancee is a grad student at UT. She owns a place over on West Lynn and Enfield over in Tarrytown. I worked over at Clark, Thomas and Winters last summer.