Israel and Lebanon...

[Cambridge]

Maybe I've reached a whole new level of cynicism, but don't these most recent acts feel like Israel is trying to establish a justification for the US invading Iran by any means necessary.

Obviously I have no evidence, nor do I honestly believe it to be true (I certainly hope not), but the fact that Israel now claims that the missiles were manufactured in Iran...hmmmm...seems like a gift wrapped scenario for the Bush administration. Thoughts?

Also, having just rewatched Team America World Police, it is clear that Israel clearly sees itself as a dick.

[hifigator]

cambridgehoya said:

Maybe I've reached a whole new level of cynicism, but don't these most recent acts feel like Israel is trying to establish a justification for the US invading Iran by any means necessary.

Obviously I have no evidence, nor do I honestly believe it to be true (I certainly hope not), but the fact that Israel now claims that the missiles were manufactured in Iran...hmmmm...seems like a gift wrapped scenario for the Bush administration. Thoughts?

Also, having just rewatched Team America World Police, it is clear that Israel clearly sees itself as a dick.

I think Israel has shown tremendous patience for quite some time, and yet has maintained enough of an image to deter many more serious attacks. They can do nothing right in the eyes of many arabs. The attitude of far too many arab leaders as well as the general public is that Israel is "the cancer." The truth is that there is no hope for peace when one side's idea of peace is peacefully coexisting ... provided the other side isn't around. Israel has bent over backwards time and time again to have peace in the area. Unfortunately for them as well as the rest of the world, that isn't the view of "peace" that far too many arabs envision.

That being said, I still find it somewhat odd that in spite of the overwhelming modern-day view which portrays Hitler and his anti-semitism ideology as barbaric, a surprisingly large number of folks still sympathize with the general arab mentality of anti-semitism.

Let me hear it now libs ....

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

Ok you wanted to hear it. The amount of attention that you are getting from trolling this board has dropped percipitiously and so has your post out put - proving that you only troll to get attention.

[hifigator]

stpetersburghoya said:

Ok you wanted to hear it. The amount of attention that you are getting from trolling this board has dropped percipitiously and so has your post out put - proving that you only troll to get attention.

You are somewhat of a black sheep for the state of Florida as well as Georgetown University. At no point did I do anything other than state an opinion on the topic initiated by another, and yet you in your pavlovian way, couldn't resist elementary commentary. Sad.

[Cambridge]

hifigator said:

cambridgehoya said:

Maybe I've reached a whole new level of cynicism, but don't these most recent acts feel like Israel is trying to establish a justification for the US invading Iran by any means necessary.

Obviously I have no evidence, nor do I honestly believe it to be true (I certainly hope not), but the fact that Israel now claims that the missiles were manufactured in Iran...hmmmm...seems like a gift wrapped scenario for the Bush administration. Thoughts?

Also, having just rewatched Team America World Police, it is clear that Israel clearly sees itself as a dick.

I think Israel has shown tremendous patience for quite some time, and yet has maintained enough of an image to deter many more serious attacks. They can do nothing right in the eyes of many arabs. The attitude of far too many arab leaders as well as the general public is that Israel is "the cancer." The truth is that there is no hope for peace when one side's idea of peace is peacefully coexisting ... provided the other side isn't around. Israel has bent over backwards time and time again to have peace in the area. Unfortunately for them as well as the rest of the world, that isn't the view of "peace" that far too many arabs envision.

That being said, I still find it somewhat odd that in spite of the overwhelming modern-day view which portrays Hitler and his anti-semitism ideology as barbaric, a surprisingly large number of folks still sympathize with the general arab mentality of anti-semitism.

Let me hear it now libs ....

I find it so fascinating that the term anti-semite has come to mean anti-Jew. Semite is a language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac, Aramaic, and other related Middle Eastern languages.

More technically, those more radical Israelis who are not native to the middle east but are from Central and Eastern Europe (and whose native language is other than Hebrew) are actually the ones who are anti-semetic, as they are locked in violent opposition to the local, Arabic speaking Palestinians.

Obviously, this is a semantics arguement, but I find it fascinating that the term Semite has been used to exclude Arabs...who are Semites.

[hifigator]

cambridgehoya said:

hifigator said:

I think Israel has shown tremendous patience for quite some time, and yet has maintained enough of an image to deter many more serious attacks. They can do nothing right in the eyes of many arabs. The attitude of far too many arab leaders as well as the general public is that Israel is "the cancer." The truth is that there is no hope for peace when one side's idea of peace is peacefully coexisting ... provided the other side isn't around. Israel has bent over backwards time and time again to have peace in the area. Unfortunately for them as well as the rest of the world, that isn't the view of "peace" that far too many arabs envision.

That being said, I still find it somewhat odd that in spite of the overwhelming modern-day view which portrays Hitler and his anti-semitism ideology as barbaric, a surprisingly large number of folks still sympathize with the general arab mentality of anti-semitism.

Let me hear it now libs ....

I find it so fascinating that the term anti-semite has come to mean anti-Jew. Semite is a language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Syriac, Aramaic, and other related Middle Eastern languages.

More technically, those more radical Israelis who are not native to the middle east but are from Central and Eastern Europe (and whose native language is other than Hebrew) are actually the ones who are anti-semetic, as they are locked in violent opposition to the local, Arabic speaking Palestinians.

Obviously, this is a semantics arguement, but I find it fascinating that the term Semite has been used to exclude Arabs...who are Semites.

I will accept what you say as accurate. I can only comment on that which I know. In context you are correct in that "anti-semitism" is a general term for anti-judaism. Whether right or wrong, or more specifically, whether legistically right or wrong is not the point. When we use words they are meaningless unless others understand them. That is not to give a blanket excuse for "ebonics" or the sort. In other words I don't mean to imply that if people understand it then it is a properly used word. Furthermore, I am also aware that many misuse words. If my choice of the word "anti-semitism" is not technically correct, because of historical origin, then I apologize. In context, whether right or wrong on a technical scale, very few would consider the word "semite" to include arabs.

Again, I don't argue your point as I am not scholared in the field. What I can say however, is that when using a word in conversation it is far more important that both the "speaker" and the "speakee" understand the context of the chosen words.

In choosing my words I was apparently not well "versed" enough in historical origin, and seemingly relied too heavily on common convention. For this I apologize...

[mplshoya]

Actually 'Bridge, the term Anti-Semitism hasn't "come" to mean anti-Jew. From its inception in German, it was always anti-Jew and really didn't have much to do with the term Semite meaning Arabs, Jews, etc. Check out this Wikipedia link...kinda interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism#Etymology_and_usage

[hifigator]

mplshoya said:

Actually 'Bridge, the term Anti-Semitism hasn't "come" to mean anti-Jew. From its inception in German, it was always anti-Jew and really didn't have much to do with the term Semite meaning Arabs, Jews, etc. Check out this Wikipedia link...kinda interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism#Etymology_and_usage

Ah! Vindication is a wonderful thing.

[Cambridge]

mplshoya said:

Actually 'Bridge, the term Anti-Semitism hasn't "come" to mean anti-Jew. From its inception in German, it was always anti-Jew and really didn't have much to do with the term Semite meaning Arabs, Jews, etc. Check out this Wikipedia link...kinda interesting.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism#Etymology_and_usage

Not to quibble, but I read the first paragraph differently:

"Steinschneider in the phrase "antisemitic prejudices" (German: "antisemitische Vorurteile"). Steinschneider used this phrase to characterize Ernest Renan's ideas about how "Semitic races" were inferior to "Aryan races." These pseudo-scientific theories concerning race, civilization, and "progress" had become quite widespread in Europe in the second half of the 19th century, especially as Prussian nationalistic historian Heinrich von Treitschke did much to promote this form of racism. In Treitschke's writings Semitic was practically synonymous with Jewish, in contrast to its usage by Renan and others."

Now the way I read it, Steinschneider, Renan and others used anisemitische vorurteile to discuss all non-aryan races and it wasn't until von Treitschke changed its use...at least that's what I understand when I see "in contrast to its use by Renan and others."

[hifigator]

I see your point, but it really doesn't substantively change the argument. If you want to choose another word, which you deem to be more appropriate, then fine. Substitute your selected word in place of "anti-semetic" wherever needed, then feel free to agree or disagree with the suggestions.

[AustinHoya03]

hifigator said:

I think Israel has shown tremendous patience for quite some time, and yet has maintained enough of an image to deter many more serious attacks.

The truth is that there is no hope for peace when one side's idea of peace is peacefully coexisting ... provided the other side isn't around. Israel has bent over backwards time and time again to have peace in the area.

Less than a year ago, the country's leader was a guy who cut his teeth fighting and slaughtering Palestinians. A few years ago, there were accusations of war crimes at Jenin (though these accusations were probably trumped up). Israel has gone ahead with controversial policies such as the security fence, despite overwhelming Arab and world opposition.

I'll admit Israel has made some serious concessions towards peace as well, but let's not act as if Israel is a nation of people who really, truly love Palestine and the Palestinians and want to coexist peacefully with them for all eternity. If you believe that I suggest you find an Israeli and ask him about his year of military service.

[mplshoya]

As a gtown grad who spent four years debating this stuff from the halls of ICC to Cairo to Tel Aviv, I am officially convinced that Thomas Friedman was right when he said people "go temporarily insane" when discussing the Middle East.

The only thing I could add to possibly "explain" Israeli actions is through a quote by former Israeli PM Ehud Barak on recent events.

"We are in a tough neighborhood, this is the Mideast not the Midwest."

He's right. I never saw this stuff growing up on the "mean streets" of Minneapolis.

[Frank Black]

mplshoya said:

As a gtown grad who spent four years debating this stuff from the halls of ICC to Cairo to Tel Aviv, I am officially convinced that Thomas Friedman was right when he said people "go temporarily insane" when discussing the Middle East.

The only thing I could add to possibly "explain" Israeli actions is through a quote by former Israeli PM Ehud Barak on recent events.

"We are in a tough neighborhood, this is the Mideast not the Midwest."

He's right. I never saw this stuff growing up on the "mean streets" of Minneapolis.

That's pretty good. I spent years defending the Palestinians, excusing pretty much everything they did. But the election of Hamas changed that for me, it is clear that the balance of the Palestinian population is vile and overtly anti-Semitic.

Of course, on the flip side, the balance of the Israeli population is also vile. Both sides are AWFUL. I loathe both peoples in equal measure.

So what is a man to do? Here's an idea, stop funding either side and get out of the Middle East completely. Leave the savages to their savagery.

[Cambridge]

frankblack said:

mplshoya said:

As a gtown grad who spent four years debating this stuff from the halls of ICC to Cairo to Tel Aviv, I am officially convinced that Thomas Friedman was right when he said people "go temporarily insane" when discussing the Middle East.

The only thing I could add to possibly "explain" Israeli actions is through a quote by former Israeli PM Ehud Barak on recent events.

"We are in a tough neighborhood, this is the Mideast not the Midwest."

He's right. I never saw this stuff growing up on the "mean streets" of Minneapolis.

That's pretty good. I spent years defending the Palestinians, excusing pretty much everything they did. But the election of Hamas changed that for me, it is clear that the balance of the Palestinian population is vile and overtly anti-Semitic.

Of course, on the flip side, the balance of the Israeli population is also vile. Both sides are AWFUL. I loathe both peoples in equal measure.

So what is a man to do? Here's an idea, stop funding either side and get out of the Middle East completely. Leave the savages to their savagery.

Unfortunately, if we stopped funding Israel wouldn't they collapse? Sure they have a relatively succesful economy and a crack military outfit, but much of their military technology is gained through sweetheart deals with the US. If that goes out the window...do they still have it together in 10-20 years? That being said, I am not necessarily opposed to the sink or swim approach for the country, but I have doubts that we'd be willing to cut off our number 1 reciever in foreign aid so quickly.