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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 27, 2007 22:55:38 GMT -5
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Post by PushyGuyFanClub on Sept 28, 2007 8:59:25 GMT -5
Shouldn't we be reserving judgment here? He was identified via Facebook. Is that airtight?
Don't go Duke on us.
Full disclosure: Phil was an intern at my firm this summer. He was a nice kid. I'm shocked by this.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 28, 2007 15:01:22 GMT -5
A professional acquaintance of mine also apparently knows Phil and feels just like PGFC, describing him as "a model citizen". I'm guessing we'll probably have more information in a week. They'll either charge him and we'll hear if they have anything more than the Facebook identification, or they'll release him.
If he is innocent, it's possible that the police felt pressured to make an arrest after the other two gay-bashing incidents this month. We'll just have to see.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Sept 28, 2007 15:06:32 GMT -5
All the comments on DCist on two different posts are making a big deal of who his dad apparently is.
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JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Sept 28, 2007 16:14:55 GMT -5
I know Phil's family very well. Really really shocking and sad, but he deserves everything he gets. I just hope it wasn't him, because what happenned is frankly despicable.
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Sept 29, 2007 23:25:43 GMT -5
www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/28/facebook.finds.attacker/index.htmlCNN.com's report on the situation seems to focus more on the fact that Facebook was used to identify the suspect and not so much on the fact that the incident involved Georgetown students or on the "hate/bias specification" aspect of the case. Lt. Alberto Jova of the Metropolitan Police Department "said he'd never heard of a crime victim using Facebook to help police catch a suspect before."
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Post by ZagHoya04 on Oct 1, 2007 9:26:57 GMT -5
Assuming that this kid was correctly "fingered" via facebook, I think the hate crime angle is a farce. Obviously ill-advised to use a gay epithet, but for better or worse such words have taken on a generically insulting connotation.
Sure, adjudicate the incident based on the circumstances of the fight, and if that means him facing charges, that is fair. But don’t tack on added penalty for using bad words in a stupid college scuffle.
Further, I think you're right about most depictions highlighting the facebook aspect, but in the ones which stress the "hate/bias" specification, they portray this as an instance of an "assailant"/"attacker" targeting a gay college student, when in all fairness it sounds like an unfortunate campus fight.
Makes as much sense to me as the infamous Riley/Amadou fight being classified as a hate crime...
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Post by redskins12820 on Oct 1, 2007 10:27:56 GMT -5
Assuming that this kid was correctly "fingered" via facebook, I think the hate crime angle is a farce. Obviously ill-advised to use a gay epithet, but for better or worse such words have taken on a generically insulting connotation. Sure, adjudicate the incident based on the circumstances of the fight, and if that means him facing charges, that is fair. But don’t tack on added penalty for using bad words in a stupid college scuffle. Further, I think you're right about most depictions highlighting the facebook aspect, but in the ones which stress the "hate/bias" specification, they portray this as an instance of an "assailant"/"attacker" targeting a gay college student, when in all fairness it sounds like an unfortunate campus fight. Makes as much sense to me as the infamous Riley/Amadou fight being classified as a hate crime... Way off base my friend. The whole reason this kid was attacked was that Phil thought the kid was gay. It wasn't like they got into a fight at a party and then it got carried outside, where Phil decided to use deragatory comments. Instead, the kid was just walking home and got attacked solely because of his sexual orientation. How in the world is that not a hate crime? No different from a white person attacking a black person while dropping the N word. If you don't think the second example is a hate crime, then there is no convincing you. This was not a bar fight, but a direct target and attack. By the way, there is a protest supporting the attacked and making demands to GTOWN officials regarding their response (or lack thereof) to the attack today. 12:45 Red Square for anyone interested in joining.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 1, 2007 12:02:15 GMT -5
A rally to support the victim is perfectly appropriate, students organizing it should be applauded & I hope that part of it goes well.
A protest to call on the university to take more action to protect students also is appropriate - though I'm not sure what the school can do to prevent things like this.
On the other hand, a protest to criticize the univsersity for not taking action against a student who has not been convicted of anything is not appropriate, in my opinion, and I hope that is not a part of today's events.
It was difficult to tell from redskins' description if the last was the case or not, but I hope not. I think Georgetown is acting (or not acting) perfectly reasonably given the early stage of the investigation.
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Post by PushyGuyFanClub on Oct 1, 2007 12:43:54 GMT -5
The whole reason this kid was attacked was that Phil thought the kid was gay. [...] This was not a bar fight, but a direct target and attack. Just wondering the source on that other than one person's word v. another. I heard a different version of events while at homecoming this weekend.
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JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Oct 1, 2007 12:53:27 GMT -5
Assuming that this kid was correctly "fingered" via facebook, I think the hate crime angle is a farce. Obviously ill-advised to use a gay epithet, but for better or worse such words have taken on a generically insulting connotation. Hadn't thought of it that way, but definitely a viable and unfortunate possibility of being a little "too right" with one's insults.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Oct 1, 2007 12:59:16 GMT -5
Assuming that this kid was correctly "fingered" via facebook, I think the hate crime angle is a farce. Obviously ill-advised to use a gay epithet, but for better or worse such words have taken on a generically insulting connotation. Hadn't thought of it that way, but definitely a viable and unfortunate possibility of being a little "too right" with one's insults. And I feel that even if this is the case the guy would have a difficult case to make before a court to prove that "If I had known that the person in question was homosexual I would not have used those words during the fight". If the facebook identification was correct, then this guy is going to have a hard time regardless if his actions were intended as a "hate crime"
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Oct 1, 2007 13:53:43 GMT -5
On the other hand, a protest to criticize the univsersity for not taking action against a student who has not been convicted of anything is not appropriate, in my opinion, and I hope that is not a part of today's events. It was difficult to tell from redskins' description if the last was the case or not, but I hope not. I think Georgetown is acting (or not acting) perfectly reasonably given the early stage of the investigation. From the little I heard at the protest while walking to and from classes, one of the complaints they are directing toward the University is that students only found out about the incident at all when it was reported in the media. Seems like they're expressing disappointment/frustration with the fact that the University didn't notify students as soon as it happened and attempt to address the issues it raises, but not with any action/inaction towards the accused student (at least not that I heard).
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Post by redskins12820 on Oct 1, 2007 14:24:43 GMT -5
Formal demands of the protest per the Facebook group. Don't know who wrote this, but I think these were the words of the petition being handed around...
"Grievances and Demands:
PROTOCOL: Georgetown students should never again need to find out about a hate crime or bias incident within our community from the news media before the University. Clear protocols and policies, openly available to all and entirely transparent, must be established and followed for all hate and bias incidents in the future. Although complex privacy issues exist in hate crime cases, privacy concerns should not have precluded the University from sending out a broadcast e-mail stating that a biased attack had occurred and that the suspects were at large hours following the attack.
PERSONNEL: There is not enough diversity training in place for staff, faculty, administration and students, and resources for those wishing to learn more about LGBTQ issues are thoroughly inadequate. The Safe Zones training program is dormant, and it is not fair to place the burden of support services for LGBTQ students on a student organization. In order to more effectively deal with hate and bias on campus, to meet its existing obligations to safe zones and other faculty and staff trainings, the coordinator for LGBTQ Community Resources must be made into a full-time position, or its equivalent by adding another half-time staff person, or having at least one full-time staff member.
EDUCATION: No freshman student should end his or her first year at Georgetown without know what LGBTQ stands for, or what a transgender person is. To that end, each freshman residence hall must in the fall semester hold a mandatory training and info session—‘LGBTQ 101’—to increase awareness of LGBTQ issues within our campus community. The Office of LGBTQ Community Resources and GU Pride have successfully held events like this in the past in freshman residences, but they must be made mandatory for first-year students in order to be effective and again it is unfair to place the burden of this entirely upon a student organization.
DIALOGUE IN ACTION: In order to implement these proposals and changes needed by the University in the future, student, faculty, staff and administration collaboration is essential. By November 1, 2007, a broadened and adequately funded LGBTQ Working Group including student, faculty, staff and senior administration figures, must be formed to begin looking at how to implement these extremely necessary policy changes and proposals, and alleviate the grievances of not just the LGBTQ community at Georgetown but the entire campus. "
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Post by redskins12820 on Oct 1, 2007 14:35:21 GMT -5
The whole reason this kid was attacked was that Phil thought the kid was gay. [...] This was not a bar fight, but a direct target and attack. Just wondering the source on that other than one person's word v. another. I heard a different version of events while at homecoming this weekend. I know the victim was not at the same party as Phil. If they had been at the same party, the victim wouldn't have needed to use facebook to id him because he could have gotten phil's name from someone else.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Oct 1, 2007 14:35:50 GMT -5
I'm having a difficult time understanding the protesters' main concern: that the university should have notified students immediately after the alleged hate crime. It is not up to the school to determine what constitutes a hate crime, it is up to law enforcement and the department of justice to determine and to be verified in a court of law. And in a situation like this where there are serious felony accusations the school must turn over the investigation to MPD and then later make its own investigation later to determine what academic/administrative punishments to add. And as for notifying the campus community earlier, is it right to comment on an ongoing investigation before a warrant has been issued and executed? Unless the school believed that there was some sort of radical hate group that could potentially continue violent actions, it would be wholly inapropriate to make a comment before the school did in this situation. Other than say "a fight broke out on campus last weekend, stay tuned to the possibility of it being a hate crime" the school really can't change its policy.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 1, 2007 14:58:05 GMT -5
For my part, thank you redskins for the clarification.
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bubbrubbhoya
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Oct 1, 2007 15:37:09 GMT -5
Quite frankly, what was done was sick and the people responsible (the article notes a "group of men") should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
That said, I think that Georgetown is under no obligation to report what is designated as a "hate crime" any more than they already report "normal crimes." (I write it this way because pretty much every crime involving assault, battery, and worse carries an element of hatred along with it, even if only in the heat of the moment.) At least when I was at the school, all incidents on and near campus were reported through a DPS Campus Safety Alert email...almost all of which told us to be on the lookout for the 5'10" white shirt, blue jeans bogeyman. Who knows why this crime wasn't reported at the time, but to push a "hate crime" notification requirement on Georgetown is both redundant and ridiculous.
Furthermore, to wade into more controversial territory, I think Georgetown is under no obligation to make anyone at the University more aware of issues of sexual orientation. The University already does this (or at least did this as recently as 2002 NSO, and I'm pretty sure they haven't stopped) to a certain extent during NSO. The Catholic roots of the University already direct it to teach its students to help others and to treat others with respect, and while strengthening this overall message might not be a bad idea, an "LGBTQ 101" course is absolutely ludicrous. The pettiness of NSO is almost insufferable as is, and I can only imagine how patronized freshmen would feel if they were directed by the administration to know what a transgender person is.
How about this: Create campus unity by fostering an atmosphere of care and respect for all, but leave the agendas at home.
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tgo
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Post by tgo on Oct 1, 2007 16:15:36 GMT -5
EDUCATION: No freshman student should end his or her first year at Georgetown without know what LGBTQ stands for, or what a transgender person is. To that end, each freshman residence hall must in the fall semester hold a mandatory training and info session—‘LGBTQ 101’—to increase awareness of LGBTQ issues within our campus community. The Office of LGBTQ Community Resources and GU Pride have successfully held events like this in the past in freshman residences, but they must be made mandatory for first-year students in order to be effective and again it is unfair to place the burden of this entirely upon a student organization. this is one of the crazier things i have read in a while. what else should freshman learn about that has nothing to do with their course of study? should we have an entire month at the begining of the year where each day deals with a different aspect of society that some people at the university might not be familiar with? i guess i would have flunked out since i dont know what the Q on the end of that alphabet soup stands for. how about a day devoted to sex ed then a day devoted to irish americans, followed by a day for every possible ethnic stripe under the sun. Follow that up with mormon day, then a day for every religion known to man. that would be good. How about a day to explore the various different types of handicaps people have on this earth and on GU campus, that would be interesting and foster a greater understanding amongst the undergrads. when they are finished it will be June but at least we will all be aware of each other and know what all the letters of our various groups represent, sounds great. you want the campus to be a safer place? re-open the pub.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2007 16:21:50 GMT -5
you want the campus to be a safer place? re-open the pub. Fact. Amen, tgo. Amen.
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