TigerHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by TigerHoya on May 1, 2007 14:47:37 GMT -5
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Post by hilltopper2000 on May 1, 2007 14:57:44 GMT -5
I can't believe anyone would compare the old master plan to Stern's designs. The old master plan envisioned an almost entirely unwalkable campus with platforms of parking garages dominating the back half of campus It eshewed any collegiate feel whatsoever. It also had the massive cogenerator power plant which, while undoubtedly cost effective, would have installed a massive powerplant on campus. I've actually seen this plan and, far from a missed opportunity, GU dodged a bullet.
Oh, and the idea that Eisner scuttled the plan to get a contract for Robert Stern is also downright silly. Stern is a giant in the field of architecture and has many many major university projects under his belt. He was selected because he has a reputation for building stuctures that usually harken back to older arcitecture. His asthetic fits GU perfectly. He didn't need Eisner to intervene for a little career assistance.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 1, 2007 21:48:56 GMT -5
At first, let me say that the article in question is a difficult read, not so much because of its author ("Special to the HOYA" usually indicates a free-lance contribution) but because of the mix of topics.
From what I remember, the plans L.Dean Price laments were not the 1990 master plan but the 1980 plan. What the author refers to as "seven athletic fields, a tunnel linking Georgetown to Foggy Bottom, 16 acres of green space and an advanced renewable energy system" was part of the ill-fated "podium" plan where a series of five Leavey-sized structures (with parking lots underground and some semblance of green space and/or artificial turf on the top) would have spread from the Med Center right to the Potomac, obliterating what we will (someday) know as the Busienss Quadrangle and Jack Hagerty Stadium (a better sobriquet than Multi Sport Field).
The only money ever available was to get Leavey done in 1989 and by that point, there was no interest in paving over the campus for Price's multi-million square foot plan.
By contrast, the 1990 Stern plan was even more startling--essentially bulldozing most of the campus west of Copley and the Quadrangle for a series of Duke-style quadrangles stretching all the way to Glover Park. There was no athletic space left because the architects thought it was better suited off campus. The cost was estimated by one source at well over $1 billion to implement.
In either scenario, the idea that Price could have sold a 7.5 million watt underground power plant to the Georgetown brahmin is a real stretch. Residents sucessfully scaled back the cogeneration plant proposed in the 1970's and would have done the same with this one. Price's beef seems to be with Georgetown in general, but his claim that Jack DeGioia scuttled the design plans in an attempt to be GU's president some day is really, really off base. Georgetown was always going to have a Jesuit at the helm after Tim Healy retired, but the business acumen of the O'Donovan administration literally forced GU to go outside the order.
Georgetown hasn't had much in the way of a consistent architectural vision over the years, but it would have been a much different place if either the 1980 or 1990 plan had been pursued.
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Post by reformation on May 2, 2007 9:02:22 GMT -5
Even if the Hoya article was a bit jumbled, I applaud the writer for actually trying to do some investigative reporting on a fairly important topic--the campus master plan including progress, lack of progress and alternatives deserves a serious review--much more extensive than a few paragraphs in the Hoya article. Its really unfortunate that the Hoya format does not really allow any true in depth reporting.
I have no knowledge/opinion about any chicanery reagrding Eisner, Degioia, O'donovan etc pushing one plan or another because of personal reasons is fact or a disgruntled former employee's revisionist histoty--the premise that eisne, e.g., either would never or could not influence o'donovan, degioia etc is not totally implausible either.
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Post by ExcitableBoy on May 2, 2007 13:21:22 GMT -5
Hold on... we were going to build a tunnel to connect Georgetown to Foggy Bottom?? Why on earth would we have done this?  ? |
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Post by HometownHoya on May 2, 2007 20:08:15 GMT -5
Hold on... we were going to build a tunnel to connect Georgetown to Foggy Bottom?? Why on earth would we have done this? ? Metro Connection? To say we have a big tunnel? Waste Money? |
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Post by washingtonhoya on May 2, 2007 20:21:07 GMT -5
Hold on... we were going to build a tunnel to connect Georgetown to Foggy Bottom?? Why on earth would we have done this? ? Metro Connection? To say we have a big tunnel? Waste Money? Make GW's marches on Georgetown easier? |
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyatables on May 3, 2007 8:39:17 GMT -5
There was no plan for a tunnel. It was an idea, but it never made it into the formal plan.
Besides, seriously, would that have made sense? The darn thing would have been 20 blocks long!!!!
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DrumsGoBang
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DrumsGoBang - Bang Bang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on May 9, 2007 9:42:20 GMT -5
Big dark tunnel. Oh yeah!
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Post by strummer8526 on May 15, 2007 10:08:54 GMT -5
Is anyone else enjoying trying to imagine what the tunnel would have been like? Do cars drive through it...or is it, like, something you walk through? Or maybe there would have been a moving sidewalk like at the airport?
Every time I try to picture this thing, the imagined "tunnel" is dumber than the last time I thought about it.
Just picture what we're missing: the cold months of October-March. Twnety-five blocks of homeless people flocking to "the tunnel," or as I would have deemed it, the Batcave.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on May 15, 2007 12:24:16 GMT -5
I thought the tunnel was were Georgetown would dump all its crap and it flow downhill and end up in Foggy Bottom. I didn't think it was a pedestrian-sized tunnel, which GW students could use for a march on the gates of Georgetown.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Jun 8, 2007 14:38:13 GMT -5
...or as I would have deemed it, the Batcave. There's already a batcave and a couple of candidates for batcave backup. The batcave is the arched open doorway that leads from the sidewalk on 36th down to the parking lot between the endowment houses on Propect and N Sts. It was also my lovely little shortcut to heaven, aka Wisey's and the Tombs. The other batcave is the tunnel connecting Reiss and the Med Center. You should see some of the crazy stuff they store down there. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 9, 2007 16:34:18 GMT -5
The Georgetown Neighborhood Association and a couple of other parties, with Georgetown University intervening, are arguing before the DC Court of Appeals re: the enrollment cap and campus master plan. I think they are scheduled for next week*.
* I am not working for the DC Court of Appeals - this is just what I've heard from someone that does.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 10, 2007 15:43:09 GMT -5
Update: I did a little public-access research. An order was issued in the case on Thursday. Here's the pdf link: www.dcappeals.gov/dccourts/appeals/pdf/05-AA-688.PDFON EDIT: Georgetown wanted to increase its student cap to 6,016 based on the averaging of spring and fall numbers (because of study abroad making the spring numbers much lower). The Board of Zoning Appeals told the University they had to keep their students numbers at the same level they were at in 1990 and created a number of other restrictions involving use of campus. This got appealed to the DC Court of Appeals, the highest court deciding "state" issues in DC. The DC Court of Appeals heard the case and said that the Board of Zoning Appeals didn't make enough factual findings to support its ruling that the University had to keep enrollment numbers at the same place they were at in 1990. Ordinarily decisions made by zoning boards are given a good deal of deference (sp?) by courts because they act like legislative bodies - making factual determinations and then basing quasi-legislative decisions on those determinations. Courts don't have to give them any deference when they don't do so or act outside of the area they have been given quasi-legislative power over (zoning and some other related stuff). The Court found that the latter was the case and sent the matter back to the board of zoning appeals telling them to make some factual determinations and then come up with a ruling. The board of zoning appeals did this in a public meeting. They approved the 6,016 student enrollment cap but with significant limitations on how McDonough, Harbin, and the Performing Arts Center were used. The neighborhood association was Editeded. They took the issue back to court and asserted that the findings of the Board of Zoning Appeals were erroneous and that certain other restrictions should have been included in the order of the Board of Zoning Appeals. In the recent opinon the court sort of came to the obverse of the previous decision (Georgetown I). They found that the University had provided a substantial factual basis for increasing its enrollment cap. The Court also found that the Board's decision to remove certain aspects of the limitations placed on the campus plan that the University hadn't contested (including restrictions on the use of McDonough) should be reinstated unless the Board of Zoning Appeals could establish a similar substantial factual basis for removing those restrictions. Why is this important? If Georgetown ever decided to build a practice facility, on-campus arena, or complete the upgrades to the MSF this is the case that the zoning fight will be analyzed through. So the University will have to come up with a carefully reasoned and documented reason for its inclusion in a future Master Campus Plan or in an amendment to the current one. The fact that the litigation over the 2000 Master Campus Plan is rapping up in 2007 is also indicative of how hard the neighborhood will fight a practice facility/arena, although this decision certainly gives the University a legal frame-work for justifying such proposals to the Board of Zoning Appeals. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 10, 2007 16:16:28 GMT -5
The 4,500 seat MSF was in the 2000-10 plan. The restriction was no events between 4-8 pm.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jun 10, 2007 17:15:08 GMT -5
The 4,500 seat MSF was in the 2000-10 plan. The restriction was no events between 4-8 pm. Ok. That makes sense - I could not find the record of the restrictions that the BZA proposed prior to Georgetown I. |
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Post by HometownHoya on Jun 10, 2007 20:48:52 GMT -5
The 4,500 seat MSF was in the 2000-10 plan. The restriction was no events between 4-8 pm. No events between 4-8 pm? Good thing we don't have lights on that field then, cause that would just be aggravating as hell |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 11, 2007 9:57:46 GMT -5
I think it's ridiculous how much control the Neighborhood has over what georgetown can and cannot do. I mean i had heard that no activity from 4-8pm rule before and it's crazy that they should be albe to stop us from holding events at certain times. Sure it might increase traffic but they shouldn't be able to control that. It's like how people along a road petition to lower to speed limit, because they don't like fast moving traffic going by their house. With out any regard for all the other people it impositions who have to drive on that road. it's completely unfair.
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Post by reformation on Jun 11, 2007 17:33:34 GMT -5
The Gtwn admin is not adept at dealing with the community--many other univ's face hostile neighbors, but I can't think of any major institutions that put up with the BS that we do!
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyatables on Jun 11, 2007 19:57:44 GMT -5
The Gtwn admin is not adept at dealing with the community--many other univ's face hostile neighbors, but I can't think of any major institutions that put up with the BS that we do! Then you're not familiar with the experiences of most major universities in DC. Catholic, American, Howard, and especially GW have to put up with a lot of similar conditions as part of the campus planning and zoning processes. |
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