Just checked out the RPIs of the teams playing in the Rainbow Classic thru Dec 12 games (source: kenpom.com):
Clemson - 19 Alabama-Birmingham - 31 Georgetown - 35 Hawaii - 39 Oral Roberts - 114 Indiana State - 133 USC - 199 Long Beach State - 218
I realize its way to early to be giving much (if any) thought to RPI, but, assuming the tournament works in a round robin-style (i.e., win and advance), the Hoyas should have the opportunity to face at least one high-level RPI team (i.e., ranked 1-50) if they can get a first round win against Oral Roberts. Either way, Oral Roberts should pose a challenge and serve as a decent barometer for what type of Hoya team we can expect entering conference play. Has a tournament bracket been made public yet (i.e., beyond the first round matchups)?
i thnk its announced who we play or the winner of next game but dont remember who sorry thanks for the list of tourney teams ive had hard time getting it go hoyas can we win the trophy hope so
go hoyas eat up and feast on the big east but win one by one by AT LEAST one and have some fun!!
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 13, 2004 9:39:46 GMT -5
Can't exactly remember the details, but if we win, we play either Hawaii or (whoever Hawaii plays in the first round... LBSU, maybe?). The other bracket, I believe, is USC, UAB, Clemson, and Indiana State.
In most reasonable scenarios, we'll get at least one high RPI game.
Beat ORU, we likely face Hawaii. If Hawaii loses, we get a gimme versus LBSU, then likely face the winner of UAB/Clemson, since Indiana State and USC likely won't upset them.
Lose to ORU, we likely play LBSU. Beat them, and we'll likely face the loser of Clemson/UAB, a first round game.
"The ball should move, bodies should move. You talk about being an undisciplined, unselfish group. That's what you do. If the ball's sticking, great defensive teams are going to load up. If you don't move the ball and [be] unselfish, it's gonna be long nights, so you better learn to move the ball, share, and play with a sense of urgency on every possession. Our teams will always be unselfish, our teams will always be physical, and our teams will always do our best to defend."
2007, I've just been getting hit with alot of questions on this tourney on the Clemson boards, since I'm a Clemson fan too - so I already did a thumbnail analysis of the whole thing.
I'm waiting to do some limited transitive property studies after Friday night when Clemson plays the Citadel.
"To hell with the best team winning. I want us to win." - Frank Howard, Head Football Coach, Clemson University, 1940-1969
I'm nervous about our route -- ORU is tough, though they have been underwhelming in a couple of recent games.
And Hawaii is pretty good, too, with All-Tranfer Team Julian Sensley and home court.
"The ball should move, bodies should move. You talk about being an undisciplined, unselfish group. That's what you do. If the ball's sticking, great defensive teams are going to load up. If you don't move the ball and [be] unselfish, it's gonna be long nights, so you better learn to move the ball, share, and play with a sense of urgency on every possession. Our teams will always be unselfish, our teams will always be physical, and our teams will always do our best to defend."
I love that our RPI is so high at exam time - isn't it usually around 100-200 about now?
Last year, at the end of December, it was 365 and LAST in the entire country.
How could ANYONE defend that. It's one thing to have a few cupcakes on the early schedule. But for a Big Six conference team, especially one with some history, traditiona and reputation, to be DEAD LAST. Whoever made that schedule should be fired!
Post by Goldeneagle on Dec 13, 2004 21:48:26 GMT -5
Mmmm. I think the Hoyas are going to have their hands full in Hawaii. Ken Tutt and Caleb Green continue to have awesome careers at ORU. Tutt was the leader in 3 point percentage last year and 3rd (I believe) in freshmen scoring in the nation last year. Green is averaging 18 a game, and plus, they've got 6-10 Texas Tech transfer Michael Michaelic to fill up the hole, as well as Juco All-American Larry Owens. Yeah, ORU has had some close calls, but they still picked up the W. It should be a good game. I'm excited just to see my school mentioned in the same breath as Georgetown.
By the way, does anyone know if this tourney is going to be televised?
Last Edit: Dec 13, 2004 21:58:58 GMT -5 by Goldeneagle
To be fair, he was only continuing a long-held practice of soft schedules at GU.
The Hoyas' last Big East title season began with early wins over Hawaii-Loa (D-II), Hawaii-Pacific (D-II), St. Leo (D-II), Shenandoah (D-III), Oral Roberts (8-21 in 1987-88), South Florida (6-22), and Mercer (15-14), plus Virginia Tech and DePaul. If there was a strength of schedule formula in 1989, where would that one rank?
Last Edit: Dec 13, 2004 22:10:47 GMT -5 by DFW HOYA
Mmmm. I think the Hoyas are going to have their hands full in Hawaii. Ken Tutt and Caleb Green continue to have awesome careers at ORU. Tutt was the leader in 3 point percentage last year and 3rd (I believe) in freshmen scoring in the nation last year. Green is averaging 18 a game, and plus, they've got 6-10 Texas Tech transfer Michael Michaelic to fill up the hole, as well as Juco All-American Larry Owens. Yeah, ORU has had some close calls, but they still picked up the W. It should be a good game. I'm excited just to see my school mentioned in the same breath as Georgetown.
By the way, does anyone know if this tourney is going to be televised?
Golden Eagle - welcome, and thanks for the scouting report. I have a feeling this one will be a pick'em.
And the sad answer is that no, it won't be televised. Which is amazing because it has an ACC team. Aren't those games required by law to be televised?
"The ball should move, bodies should move. You talk about being an undisciplined, unselfish group. That's what you do. If the ball's sticking, great defensive teams are going to load up. If you don't move the ball and [be] unselfish, it's gonna be long nights, so you better learn to move the ball, share, and play with a sense of urgency on every possession. Our teams will always be unselfish, our teams will always be physical, and our teams will always do our best to defend."
Here's how Pomeroy rates the field Pomeroy's ratings translate to point differentials
UAB 63.11 Clemson 61.58 Hawaii 55.51 + 3.94 hca = 59.45 Georgetown 55.76 Oral Roberts 54.34 Southern Cal 51.66 Indiana St 51.29 Long Beach St 44.45
Georgetown by 1 (55%) over ORU Hawaii by 15 (89%) over LBSU UAB by 2 (55%) over Clemson USC by 1 (52%) over Indiana St
Hawaii and Georgetown are rated about even, but Hawaii would have the +4 home court advantage.
It is worth noting that college basketball is not so predictable and teams have a wide range of results. Last year one of the computer rating systems reported a standard deviation of around 11, which means that two-thirds of games were within +/- 11 points of the prediction. That means that if a team is a 1 point favorite, there is a 33% chance they will either win by more than 12 or lose by more than 10. That figure conforms with Georgetown's season to date, as one-third of the results, Temple (-20 vs. prediction based on current ratings) and Davidson (+21), are outside the =/- 11 standard deviation.
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Dec 14, 2004 9:52:00 GMT -5
Does that mean that only Hawaii is a statistically significant favorite in round one? Or does the overlap of the 11 point +/- differentials for the two teams render even that game prediction a statistical tie?
(Sorry, leftover brain matter from last night's stats final is seeping into morning consciousness...)
Yes, three 1st round games are essentially toss-ups. Pomeroy rates Hawaii's odds of winning as 89%. The other favorites are 55% or less. A difference of 1 or 2 points in basketball is one foul/no call or block/charge decision.
Added note: Sagarin's Predictor ratings favor ORU by 1.
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2004 11:58:53 GMT -5 by bmartin
Post by Goldeneagle on Dec 14, 2004 18:48:20 GMT -5
What about intangibles? Are any Hoyas hot these days? Who is this Roy Hibbert I keep reading about? One last question: Why didn't Patrick Ewing Jr. go here? We're playing Indiana very soon.
The Eagles have gained a lot of conference these days because they have won 4 of their 6 total games on the road. Although the cross-town rival Tulsa U may seem weak this year, the Eagles beat them at their court, the first time in 13 seasons. Tulsa went to the Elite 8 in 1999 and ended with 32-5 record. ORU was one of only three teams to beat TU that year.
One other tidbit that relates ORU, Tulsa, Illinois, and currently Kansas: they have been coached by Bill Self. ORU went 21-5 when Self was the coach in 1997. Finally, current coach Scott Sutton is the son of Oklahoma State's Eddie Sutton, who took his squad to the final four last season.
Last Edit: Dec 14, 2004 19:01:30 GMT -5 by Goldeneagle
Goldeneagle, you can take a look at some of our better moments this season by checking out our highlights from the #1 Illinois game, in which we led for over 10 minutes in the first half.
Roy Hibbert is our back-up center. He is a 7 foot 2, 17 year old, hard-working, somewhat awkward yet incredibly long freshman. We love him to death.
Our freshmen have been putting on a show this season. Jeff Green was a steal for the hoyas, as he was highly touted at one point but dropped off the radar after not participating in some summer leagues. He is a power forward, and is everywhere. Scored 20 against IL. Jon Wallace, another frosh, is our starting PG and can hit the 3 and controls the tempo well.
Brandon Bowman is our inconsistent leader. Some games he could make a basket from the parking lot while drunk, others he couldn't throw a pea in the ocean. He has good size for a SG/SF though. Ashanti Cook is our 2, can make the off-balance jumper, doesn't make too many mistakes, but is still learning how to contribute regularly. Darrel Owens rounds out our starting lineup, and he is an enigma: athletic, smart, yet painfully lacking in confidence.
Our bench is short this year, meaning we only use 2-3 guys in big games: Roy, Ray Reed, and Ramell Ross.
If your guys tire us out you will have a definite advantage. I have read some good things about ORU in the SI College Preview. They are really the only team in the tourny that worries me, and their talent, compounded with the jet lag/newness of Hawaii/rust from a week off might mean a lackluster performance from our Hoyas. Yet again, you could encounter the Hoya team that destroyed Davidson (a Davidson team that hadn't lost at home in 10+ games, barely lost to Duke, etc).
