Jeff Green article

[ilovescruggs]

Congratulations to Camille Powell (whom I normally defend) on completely ripping off the AP article. Right down to the Batman and Robin references. Sorry to bash you Camille, but this is really a poor, poor showing.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030201921.html

[hoyainspirit]

Thoses articles are quite similar. Makes you wonder...

[Redheaded Hoya]

Enough Camille-bashing from the wannabes -

In defense of Ms. Powell - maybe the quotes were from the same interview because it was done in a group setting or conference call.

You no doubt have seen a soundbite on TV that was on ABC, NBC, CNN, etc? well that is because often there are multiple reporters at the same press briefings/statements.

Leagues and colleges will set up conference calls for multiple reporters so the players and coaches dont have to sit and give the same interview 10 times when they can be in class or at practice. Nothing new or surprising there and the quotes can be used by all the reporters.

Camille's article was too long and features-y to be written in 24 hours after the AP story came out so its likely that they were working on something similar and since the Post wont run that AP story, it was the first time those quotes were going to be on their pages.

pretty ballsy (and i think ignorant) to suggest Camille would plagiarize quotes when its so easy to check things like that on the internet - (and she has the posters on this board as her fact checkers/conscience).

[Deleted]

I'm with Redheaded Hoya on this one. There's a pool of quotes that journalists use to write stories. A couple of years ago, the AP never would have done this story about us, and we all would have been fired up that Camille wrote it, and the Nickname Gestapo would have started calling Roy and Jeff "Batman and Robin".......now, we get T.O.'d because we're getting so much coverage that some of it sounds alike....

And I'm also with Redheaded Hoya on this one: "Boo, you whore"

[VelvetElvis]

CasualHoya? Thoughts?

[AustinHoya03]

a) Scruggs is hardly a "wannabe" on this issue, trust me. He's probably more aware of how interviews and quotes work than anyone else on this board, unless Barker Davis is a closet poster.

b) I don't think anyone accused Camille of plagarizing -- there's a difference between direct plagarization and tweaking an idea.

c) Camille better get used to getting scooped by the AP this March if she doesn't get her stories in sooner. Cam is right, this would have been a great article by itself if the AP article hadn't come out first, but Camille and the Post look dumb running the same quotes two days after they came across the wires in a similar article. The beat reporter for the Hoyas shouldn't get scooped like that.

d) If we were going to crown the avatar King and Queen of Hoyatalk, my votes would go to Redheaded and Cam. Except Cam needs to go back to Pat Jr. threatening Beilein.

[dajuan]

hoyasncaa2001 said:

Enough Camille-bashing from the wannabes -

In defense of Ms. Powell - maybe the quotes were from the same interview because it was done in a group setting or conference call.

You no doubt have seen a soundbite on TV that was on ABC, NBC, CNN, etc? well that is because often there are multiple reporters at the same press briefings/statements.

Leagues and colleges will set up conference calls for multiple reporters so the players and coaches dont have to sit and give the same interview 10 times when they can be in class or at practice. Nothing new or surprising there and the quotes can be used by all the reporters.

Camille's article was too long and features-y to be written in 24 hours after the AP story came out so its likely that they were working on something similar and since the Post wont run that AP story, it was the first time those quotes were going to be on their pages.

pretty ballsy (and i think ignorant) to suggest Camille would plagiarize quotes when its so easy to check things like that on the internet - (and she has the posters on this board as her fact checkers/conscience).

I also think that it's naive (read: ignorant) to imply that writers don't ever plagiarize each other. Can you blame them? It's a tough business, coming up with new stuff to say all the time, and sometimes writers, like players and even fans, don't give it their all.

Check out this little ditty. deadspin.com/sports/media/ron-borges-cutandpaste-job-241511.php

With regard to Camille Powell in particular, I think she normally does a pretty good job and I don't think that she plagiarized the AP story. It was probably either a pool of quotes (as others have suggested) or a coincidence.

[VelvetElvis]

Ms. Lohan's alter-ego has some pretty strong credentials when it comes to this topic as well.

[calihoya07]

Since I was there with both Camille and Joe (from the AP) when we all were talking to Jeff last Thursday, I will vouch for her. She did not plagiarize the AP story, she just was there for the same interview and her story ran a day later because the Post runs her stories on game days, while the AP story got picked up by Friday. I'm sure she wrote hers before she read the AP story, hers just didn't get in print as fast. And these are group interviews, so the AP story is using quotes Jeff gave to Camille's questions and vice versa. For example, it was Camille who asked Jeff about his hair and his answer about looking for a job went in the AP story... it was her quote, the AP just got to run it first. It is a group effort over here...

[Jack]

edit: Too harsh. But everyone needs to think before they post.

[DonkDonk]

one more defense of her - sometimes, you probably have to sit on a tidbit or angle until a planned story comes out later that week. they likely have limited information that they must stretch out until the Hoyas play Thursday. also, it's not like this article was characterized as news-breaking.

the Borges stuff, however, is pretty ridiculous. many people hate him in Boston...

[calihoya07]

Don't know if this is clutter, but more from Camille on Jeff (and Kenny) while she is filling in on the bog: blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2007/03/jeff_greens_senior_day.html

[1984alloveragain]

I hate to bring up the whole "Is he leaving thing...", but one thing I considered the other day is what Chris Wright said when he decided to come to the Hilltop. Chris said "I think we have a real good chance to win the National Championship my freshman year"---- I wonder if Jeff assured him that he would stick around for his own senior season, ala so many other Hoya Greats. Without Jeff next year, we could still be a very strong, likely a top 15 -11 Team (perhaps even a bit higher); but WITH him, SKY'S the limit.

Since very early in his career, Jeff has SO reminded me of Mike Sweetney - great high school players, who both, for some reason, were overshadowed and somewhat unheralded by the time they arrived for their freshman orientation (although true Hoya fans KNEW we had STEALS in both of them); both WORKMANLIKE, the respective FOCAL points of their teams; both started and starred in EVERY game from Day 1; both Not flashy but 'to the point, get the job done without need for showboating even after their usual great plays; both Masters of understatement - especially when discussing their own incredibly vast talents, etc..... Both Jeff and Mike were MONSTERS in the BEST sense of the word for their Hoya teams; they were (are) the ROCK and Glue and "safety blanket" for their teams and coaches.

Mike ended up as the #12 Hoya of all time in the top 100 list, even after only being here 3 years - I think that Jeff would have to be rated higher, even if he were to spend only 3 years as a Hoya; AND, if he WERE to be here for ALL 4 (PLEASE GOD!!!), and we have the type of success the rest of this year we can, and next year we all foresee and hope for, I would think he could probably break into the TOP 5 Hoyas of ALL TIME (not to mention his fellow 1st Team All Conference Teammate possibly breaking into the Top 20 or higher on the ALL TIME LIST). I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on these thoghts....

[DanMcQ]

austinhoya03 said:

b) I don't think anyone accused Camille of plagarizing -- there's a difference between direct plagarization and tweaking an idea.

So, you're saying "Congratulations to Camille Powell on completely ripping off the AP article" is "tweaking an idea"

I'm with Jack on this one: many people are quick with the accusatory trigger finger around here when they post.

[ilovescruggs]

Alright, whoa, whoa, whoa... for one thing I never accused Camille of plagiarizing. Never. That is a specific term with very serious connotations and Redhead, you're skewing my words to imply that.

The quotes, to me, weren't even the issue. Press conferences, group interviews, that wasn't my point. I just meant the two articles shared the same tone and theme of the sidekick. Camille is a good enough writer to have taken that same information and, likely knowing that the AP article was already out there, taken it in a different direction. That's what I meant. I'm not saying she's the next Jason Blair.

Ripping off, as I intended it, simply meant there was a lack of originality in her article, which hit the print a full day after the AP article. For example, Pearl Jam ripped off Led Zepelin's "Going to California" with "Given to Fly."

As I mentioned in my first post, I have normally taken Camille's side, but I was really disappointed not to see a more unique take by her article.

As for all the other stuff in this thread, I think things escalated faster than an "Anchorman" street fight. I might have chosen my words a little more carefully and less callously, and I apologize for serving as the jumping off point of this argument. But I want to make it crystal clear that I do not think this is an issue of plagiarism. Anyone who posted to that effect is reading into my post more than I intended.

[DanMcQ]

Word choice is always important.

idioms.thefreedictionary.com/ripping+off

rip something off
to steal something. Two students ripped off a fund for leukemia patients. I ripped off the idea from an old friend.

"Completely ripping off" sounded an awful lot like plagiarism to me (and apparently others). Thanks for the clarification.

[TX Hoya]

1984alloveragain said:

I hate to bring up the whole "Is he leaving thing...", but one thing I considered the other day is what Chris Wright said when he decided to come to the Hilltop. Chris said "I think we have a real good chance to win the National Championship my freshman year"---- I wonder if Jeff assured him that he would stick around for his own senior season, ala so many other Hoya Greats. Without Jeff next year, we could still be a very strong, likely a top 15 -11 Team (perhaps even a bit higher); but WITH him, SKY'S the limit.

Since very early in his career, Jeff has SO reminded me of Mike Sweetney - great high school players, who both, for some reason, were overshadowed and somewhat unheralded by the time they arrived for their freshman orientation (although true Hoya fans KNEW we had STEALS in both of them); both WORKMANLIKE, the respective FOCAL points of their teams; both started and starred in EVERY game from Day 1; both Not flashy but 'to the point, get the job done without need for showboating even after their usual great plays; both Masters of understatement - especially when discussing their own incredibly vast talents, etc..... Both Jeff and Mike were MONSTERS in the BEST sense of the word for their Hoya teams; they were (are) the ROCK and Glue and "safety blanket" for their teams and coaches.

Mike ended up as the #12 Hoya of all time in the top 100 list, even after only being here 3 years - I think that Jeff would have to be rated higher, even if he were to spend only 3 years as a Hoya; AND, if he WERE to be here for ALL 4 (PLEASE GOD!!!), and we have the type of success the rest of this year we can, and next year we all foresee and hope for, I would think he could probably break into the TOP 5 Hoyas of ALL TIME (not to mention his fellow 1st Team All Conference Teammate possibly breaking into the Top 20 or higher on the ALL TIME LIST). I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on these thoghts....

1984alloveragain, I think you bring up some very good points here, comparing JG to Sweetney. Both are very understated in the way they go about their business. I think it's a very fair comparison. The difference, however, is that JG's got somewhat of a more consistent supporting cast (likely stronger, too). I've said it before, I don't want to even THINK about where our program would have gone had Sweetney not been here during the Esh years. He single-handedly kept us in so many games. Softest hands and best footwork of any big man I've seen play live on a regular basis.

[dajuan]

A follow up to the sharing of ideas that beat writers regularly do.

deadspin.com/sports/media/in-defense--of-borges-241901.php

"It works this way and it is very simple. Reporters from different beats, maybe a half dozen or sometimes a lot more, send in notes and thoughts to a central source. Then writers pick and choose the information they want. What usually happens is the writer taking the info re-writes it in his or her own words. Obviously, Ron did not do this.

These things are leftovers from the old days of sports journalism, mainly the 1980s, when newspapers used to run these massive notes columns (the Globe and a handful of papers still do them) and because of time constraints you needed extra help. ESPN still does these things but you will notice heavy attribution on ESPN and SportsLine."