Some Things that Stand Out About This Hiring

[RDF]

I'd like to welcome JT III to GU and thank him for taking on the challenge of re-building the program. With that said, this was a move years in the making in my opinion. My personal opinion is that he was handpicked to take over and it started with those "Scrimmages" against his Princeton teams. Before everyone goes off saying I'm being negative, I actually think that is a huge POSITIVE in JT III's favor. Just so happens, I also believe his father played a major role in this and like a good Mob Boss claims innoncence when one of his Capo's gets whacked--Esh. Nothing wrong with showing respect for the dead or in this case fired. I actually applaud JT for doing this too because this program needs a kick in the pants and from all I've heard we'll get to see what happens when the Basketball Program is being given support from administration (knock on wood).

Some other opinions on what I've heard from JT III:

1. One aspect that most haven't addressed yet was his commentary on scheduling. I found this to be his best answer and most heartening for fans. He mentioned "scheduling to prepare for season" which was later clarified by a former Host of the "JT III Princeton Basketball Show" to mean he will schedule based upon teams who mirror the teams we'll play in Big East's style--WHAT A NOVEL IDEA--actually preparing for the opponents you need to beat to make program better. While Esh was beating the hell out of the MEAC, we might see some games against teams with zone oriented defenses to prepare for Syracuse's 2-3, or games against teams who actually improve our team. Everything should have a purpose and JT III has already addressed one thing Craig Esherick couldn't--a focus and commitment to building a Program.

2. He's out recruiting immediately. My guess is that he's making visits to HS Juniors as this is a Contact Period right now. Shows he knows what's most important in sports--can't win without material to work with. And he's determined to find players that fit the system--which is what most of us have begged for a long time! In other words, if you have 4-5 players 6'9 or taller, we'll be more likely to see Hoyas recruit to support their games by getting traditional point guard, and shooters to surround them, not a bunch of signings that overload a position and cause early exits due to transfer.

3. He's seemed to do somethign in 10 minutes that Esherick couldn't do in 6 years as Head Coach--bring back a FAMILY ATMOSPHERE. The Team has to be a family and with comments from a kid like Bowman who was one foot out the door and now seems like the spokesperson for the new coach, it's a welcomed sight!! When you have kids who don't believe in someone or feel like they can communicate with the Head Coach, you have zero chance of success. Why would a player believe in someone they don't feel can be approached?? Players dont' believe in coaches who do their best to promote kids who aren't as talented/deserving. It's one thing if you are winning, but if you are a team/program like GU and you are losing/bottom tier, how is a 3 year Captain providing "Great leadership"?? Add to that kids bolting program and that's considered worthy of team leadership? Maybe it's a case where Coach nominated a guy that was "Teacher's Pet" instead of true leader?? Why do I say that? Look at RESULTS, they speak for themself.

4. JT III has also gotten us back in mix with local kids we need to be--just read an update with Gonzaga's Paul Johnson who is a tremendous student and is looking at UConn, UNC, Maryland, and other powers but said "IF Georgetown hires the right coach, they automatically are added to my list". Enter JT III and Coach Burke both Gonzaga alums and have good reps with players/HS Coaches. I single out Johnson because he's the perfect example of the type of player this program needs---smart kid, outstanding player, and guy who mentioned in the article that "I need to work on my game a lot and improve my strengths and weaknesses". SELF MOTIVATED and HUNGRY. That's what has been missing. You add the excitement that Green, Hibbert, and Crawford have shown about being Hoyas and maybe the local kids will think it's not so bad to stay "home".

5. Cleaned House and Hiring Based Upon who fits his vision for the program. This is something that most overlook but is very important. For a program to be successful everyone needs to be on board. Can't have dissension, lazy people who feel satisfied or safe. The program needed this kick in butt to get back to being a hungry, attractive place for good basketball players and students to want to attend. It's pathetic to see how kids who fit the GU profile--like a Paul Johnson had been ignoring Hoyas when all they needed was for Hoyas to be important/on the upswing.

5. The fact the entire team attended and from all reports is enthused speaks more than those who didn't attend. Esh's Boys are gone. Some of those kids (who don't need to be named) had no business being Hoyas. Nice kids but you also have to be able to play basketball. If you want to compete with the Best, you have to bring in material that allows that and in sports that means TALENT. This isn't always a McDonald's All American either. It's someone who fits what you're trying to accomplish and will believe in program through thick and thin. That WAS GU Basketball and SHOULD BE GU BASKETBALL. Esherick not only divided the fans, he divided the team and that's why some physically talented teams--Sweetney's Soph and JR Years didn't get over hump to achieve what it could have.

I love the fact that we have a new start. Will JT III be the man to get it done? We'll get to find out but the fact he's already addressed many issues that needed to be talked about and transformed, is a great sign. There seems to be a plan in place which is all I ask for as a fan. Organization and effort. If it fails, let it be because someone beats you on court, not because you are too lazy, too afraid, too arrogant, and too ignorant to provide leadership. Some People are good assistants because they can't handle leadership and some are just waiting for their turn to lead. We all know where Craig fell and we all will get to see what JT III can do but I've yet to meet someone who is prepared that fails. My best wishes go to him and just nice to have enthusiasm towards the Hoya Program again.

[RDF]

Forgot to mention why I thought the Scrimmages he had against GU when he was with Tigers were beneficial for him getting things turned around.

JT III has actually seen Hoyas personnel in a competitive situation. He knows who fits where and will have an idea of what they need to improve upon and who fits his style the most. He can see the little things that were messed up for whatever reason and that's a big plus. Not many coaches take over knowing/seeing their future teams in a controlled scrimmage/practice situation. That is very helpful to see how kids practice habits are as well. Do they need to be in better condition? Are they lazy? There is always a difference in opinion on personnel and when you see kids in practice one guy who is labeled a "starter" quickly becomes a bench/role player. GU's team under Esh had zero defined roles. It was basketball "chaos". One game GU would be a running/pressing team, and then they wanted to slow it down. Well you should have players who fit roles and know them. Communication is a big part of that and if what Bowman says is true, it's no surprise that Esh lost team and team lost games.

It will also help JT III recruit this year because he knows what he needs and has on the team. For a program that needs direction, this is very positive for starting things out with Coach T-III's system.

[PushyGuyFanClub]

I'm not trying to add to any conspiracy, but when I was at Georgetown at the end of the Esherick era, a Georgetown alum/longtime professor/well-connected and active community member that I did work with mentioned to me that Thompson had annointed Esherick because he knew he would fail. Anyway, this was a theory circulating in some circles. The rationale was Thompson wanted to the program to slide because he wanted to be remembered as The Man never to be eclipsed. That said, I find merit in RDF's assertion that this was a move waiting to happen, especially in light of the recent scrimmages in Princeton. If JT did the math, which I'll bet he smartly did, he knew about how long Esh could conceivably last--about enough time for JTIII to be ready to take the reins and return the Hoyas to glory. If JTIII stays 20-30 years (very possible given his age and the potential of this job), then Hoya basketball will forever be Thompson basketball, JT will be served, and JTIV could be announced in 2035. A bit of a fantasy, but I can see it.

Also, to comment on the Bowman thing: that kid plays hard. He ran down the floor, played good d on guys he had no business d-ing up, and got angry when Georgetown lost. I think his comment stems from the observation that other people were giving up and because he's a sophomore, he couldn't do anything about it except resent his out-of-touch coach. Keep in mind, he's probably won his whole life, especially at Westchester. He deserves a coach he can be excited about. Every athlete does. Bowman never pulled an Iverson where he didn't go into a game or noticeably avoided the ball. To the contrary, he often tried to take the game in his hands to a fault. God help us the day we expect 19 year olds to have communications staff so as to be immune to wordplay.

[Boz]

Look, all I know is this. When they cleaned out Esherick's office, they found a map with a secret tunnel from Baghdad to Damascus, a stained and wrinkled blue dress, a complimentary sewing kit from the Watergate Hotel, and some spare shell casings from an Italian-made Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

I'm not saying all of this means anything, just pointing it out. Draw your own conclusions.



(sorry, just having some fun)

[NightWing]

Actually, Pushy, I think that Coach E could have turned down the job at the end of the year if he wanted. We didn't he? Instead he reuped for the next year. If Eshrick would have left right after Thompson, then this whole thing would be viewed differently.

[hoopsmccan]

Oliver Stone (ie PushyGuy) - Don't you think that this conspiracy stuff seems a bit ridiculous. JT knew and worked with Esh for many years - do you really believe that JT is that much of conniving jerk to use a friend and set him up for failure, going as far to calculate how long it would take and when his son would be ready.

As for the Princeton thing - who scheduled that. Craig? So he was in on his whole succession plan as well? Admin? So there support for Esh was just a front so JT's conspiracy could unfold.

How about this crazy idea? JT left, gave the job to his longtime friend and assistant. Things didn't work out. JT was genuinely upset. G-town does a search, interviews [many], [several] and candidates. A sure thing is not out there or attainable, so they chose from assistant coaches or few head coaches which match their criteria. When making their decision, they weigh a few factors. Surely Thompson's name and relationship is a factor. Since no attainable candidate is head and shoulders above JTIII, the name factor helps him separate from the pack and he gets the job.

No grassy knoll, mystery gun men, CIA conspiracy, etc...

[SoCalHoya]

Listen folks, there was no conspiracy. Sorry to break it to ya. Even if you do believe JT Jr. was a egomaniac, and wanted to stand tall above any other coach who would follow (which I don't), then you would have to realize that a great coach wants to be known for starting a program that was so great it could run on auto-pilot and still succeed.

How can a retired coache not hate seeing his/her program fall into ruins under someone else. If not just because they love the team/school, then because all their hard work is crumbling before their eyes.

[PushyGuyFanClub]

Just throwing it out there. Without contraries, there is no progression. For the record, I think JTIII's a great hire and there was no way Esh was gonna turn down the job in 1999. I don't know any of the parties personally and don't adhere to the ultra-conspiracy theory, but JT's always been around the program, he's a smart guy, and I heard he can have a chip on his shoulder. Besides, Esh was always hiding something behind that mustache. Perhaps he was paid to be the fall guy and the last five years were all choreographed except for Nat Burton who ruined it by willing the team to the second round of the NCAAs. Cue Robert Stack.

[hoopsmccan]

Consider it thrown back with a Dikembe finger wag added for good measure.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

Just a question, PushyGuyFanClub, did you take the Liberal Arts Seminar by any chance. "Without Contraries there is no progression" was a favorite line of one of the professors (Betz, I think)...

[PushyGuyFanClub]

I did. I wondered if people would pick up on the Betz/Blake mantra.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

Though nothing beats his stories of "climbing through the attic of a used book store in the Lake District, pushing cobwebs away and finally seeing... an original mEditedcript of Coleridge, or was it?"

...but I digress...

[RDF]

SoCalHoya said:

Listen folks, there was no conspiracy. Sorry to break it to ya. Even if you do believe JT Jr. was a egomaniac, and wanted to stand tall above any other coach who would follow (which I don't), then you would have to realize that a great coach wants to be known for starting a program that was so great it could run on auto-pilot and still succeed.

How can a retired coache not hate seeing his/her program fall into ruins under someone else. If not just because they love the team/school, then because all their hard work is crumbling before their eyes.

I think you are ignoring the human element of this---most people who are great at something like to be remembered and have their butts kissed. JT's no different than Tom Osborne, Jimmy Johnson, Dean Smith, etc..... they want to have their input and get the glory. Most successful people have egos so big you can't even begin to imagine. I believe JT didn't want to see GU suffer, but he didn't want someone coming in and winning like gangbusters right away either.

If you really want the place you leave to succeed you tell your former employer "hire the best qualified guy like you did with me years ago". But most want to keep their fingerprints on things and hide behind "loyalty". Being loyal to an individual isn't necessarily being loyal to the University/Program. SEE ESHERICK.

As for the scrimmages with Princeton, how do we not know that JT didn't "suggest" that Esh scrimmage against them? I'm not saying why his reason was, it could've been to see how the Hoyas do against that style and to get in a better days work than facing bad AAU team in Scrimmages like we see before season. But it sure didn't hurt JT III's chances for the job to enter an interview saying "I've seen the current team and this is what I think is needed, etc......"

I don't believe it's a total conspiracy but I also don't believe that you can ignore that fact JT had a role in this. He coached with Esherick for years, he knew the man was incapable of leading a team or he would've pushed harder for him to get a Head Job somewhere else as a true LOYAL FRIEND would do. He thought Craig would do much better than he did, but he didn't want to see Hoyas winning like they did when he was coach. If that's going to happen, better served with his son at the helm. Ronny left and while most who have some knowledge say "he isn't welcomed back" it's amazing Esherick gets fired the year RT is gone and is replaced by JT III. That's not just someone going "Oliver Stone" it's some irony.

Thompson will support GU more with this hire than he would with anyone else and other candidates knew that too. It's one thing to take over a struggling program, it's another when the man responsible for the success is a major voice/part of it to this day. I think the hire is good in terms of getting someone who is devoted to a systematic way of running things, and being organized. I also think JT will help the program more and we need that--both for PR and for success on the court.

[hoopsmccan]

RDF said:

I don't believe it's a total conspiracy but I also don't believe that you can ignore that fact JT had a role in this. He coached with Esherick for years, he knew the man was incapable of leading a team or he would've pushed harder for him to get a Head Job somewhere else as a true LOYAL FRIEND would do. He thought Craig would do much better than he did, but he didn't want to see Hoyas winning like they did when he was coach. If that's going to happen, better served with his son at the helm. Ronny left and while most who have some knowledge say "he isn't welcomed back" it's amazing Esherick gets fired the year RT is gone and is replaced by JT III. That's not just someone going "Oliver Stone" it's some irony.

I acknowledged JT's role in JT III's hiring. How can you say that JT knew that Esh was "incapable" of running a team? Do we know that Esh wanted to coach somewhere else? Do we know that JT didn't recommend him. Or perhaps Esh was second in charge to a ship that was sinking and other suitors were not running after him. JT has been nothing but outwardly supportive of Esh. What "inside" information do you have to suggest he was being disingenuous? Please, spare me the JT has a big ego junk. I don't doubt that he does, but that hardly explains the conspiracy crap floating around.

'JT didn't want the Hoyas to win like when he was in charge'. May I ask how you know this? Does JT have a shrink in Minnesota and you overheard something. Okay, RT leaves and JTIII comes in. Other than having some irony, what does that mean?

[BubbleVisionBiff]

TrueHoyaBlue said:

Though nothing beats his stories of "climbing through the attic of a used book store in the Lake District, pushing cobwebs away and finally seeing... an original mEditedcript of Coleridge, or was it?"

...but I digress...

Dear G-d, and I thought I was the only one who memorized diagrams of Hegelian dialectics my freshman year. Or lived in fear getting to Dean Carey's history section a nanosecond too late. ;D

[RDF]

hoopsmccan said:

I acknowledged JT's role in JT III's hiring. How can you say that JT knew that Esh was "incapable" of running a team? Do we know that Esh wanted to coach somewhere else? Do we know that JT didn't recommend him. Or perhaps Esh was second in charge to a ship that was sinking and other suitors were not running after him. JT has been nothing but outwardly supportive of Esh. What "inside" information do you have to suggest he was being disingenuous? Please, spare me the JT has a big ego junk. I don't doubt that he does, but that hardly explains the conspiracy crap floating around.

'JT didn't want the Hoyas to win like when he was in charge'. May I ask how you know this? Does JT have a shrink in Minnesota and you overheard something. Okay, RT leaves and JTIII comes in. Other than having some irony, what does that mean?

Hoops, you are taking my comments WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. I'm just implying that I feel JT's much more involved than most feel he is. Let's put it this way, I personally know two people who were very close to a Coach who was interested in GU job. He is a damn good coach and fit the perfect profile, young, proven winner, and even works at an academic oriented school. He wasn't interviewed but was on a "Wait and See" list. The fact this man had more credentials than Thompson's son is exactly why some people think this "National Search" was pure manure.

John Thompson is a great basketball mind. He's also an egomaniacal control freak that isn't interested in anyone who might have opinions outside of his own. Nothing wrong with that, he'd even admit to being that way. So for you and others to be so convinced that he wouldn't know if a man who he recruited, coached, and hired as an Assistant Coach would be able to handle being the Head Coach at a Major University, you're spending too much time putting lobsters in Teddy's Pool Hoops! ;D

Like I said and you have to admit makes sense, if Esh was equipped to handle the Hoya Head Coaching Job, wouldn't he have been pushed by JT to get another job? John Thompson's name held enough clout he could've gotten him jobs as a Head Coach.
But John Thompson is also more interested in keeping "His Way" in place than he is seeing GU win. Esherick would listen to him and do what he said, someone else might not & should not.

If Esherick didn't want to be a Head Coach, why did he take the Hoya Job? Why didn't Thompson promote/recommend someone other than Esherick after the interim season? If you think it's only because of loyalty, you are mistaken. These guys have egos and want to be remembered--which most don't understand they would be whether the program is successful or not. But the fact Thompson still wanted to be close to the program and keep it in his "model" was more important to him than seeing GU win. That's a reality, whether you like it or not. It's also why we needed to get someone outside the Thompson philosophy and getting JT III accomplishes that while not making Big John mad.

This is why in all sports there is usually a period of struggle after a great coach leaves. Might not be immediately as that coach undoubtedly has things set up for a year or two, but they also know who can handle a Head Job and who can't. They might not care what others think, because most feel fans don't know anything anyways. So instead of good hire, you get the "loyalty" hire and it usually ends with frustration and losing. Esherick didn't want the job at GU, he was told to take it and did so. Why? John Thompson.

Coach Thompson's loyalty has always been to himself. He didn't want to recruit the likes of Kenny Anderson, Corliss Williamson, etc... so GU didn't and we lost games. But that didn't matter. He'd Edited and moan about kid's attitudes in today's society and how they have know respect and loyalty, but he'd flirt with other job openings. So why would this situation be any different? He might have felt it was time to see one of his sons take over at GU, so instead of bashing Esh which makes him look bad, he just goes silent and says "No comment, too close and too loyal to Esh to comment" but he sure as hell was there with big smiles and things when JT III was announced. It's all about him and he is an intelligent man who knows how to choose his battles. Complexity and self serving are two of his more prominant traits. For a guy who said he didn't like "Hamburger All Americans" he would find room for an Alonzo Mourning, Othella Harrington, and Allen Iverson. He just loved the idea of getting Iverson because others would criticize him for it. That's Big John. I actually think he's more involved when he goes silent than he is when he speaks--kind of the Hoya Paranoia he created and loved.

[Boz]

Carey was the one who used to lock the door when he started class, right? I think I might have been on the wrong side of that one once or twice myself. Don't think I remember a single other thing about that class. Something or other about Publius and factions being evil, other than that, its all gone away.

On an unrelated note, I hope that is the first and last time the term "Hegelian dialectics" is ever used on this message board! ;D

[TrueHoyaBlue]

RDF, I appreciate your passion, but now you're saying that Esh didn't want the job?!?!

If that's the case, then he pulled off an Oscar-winning performance this winter to convince us all that he was at least mildly interested in hanging onto it.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Boz said:

Carey was the one who used to lock the door when he started class, right?

On an unrelated note, I hope that is the first and last time the term "Hegelian dialectics" is ever used on this message board! ;D

Done . . . and done. Well played, sir.

The Dean Carey I had was Claire (Mrs.), who definitely did talk about Publius in her presentation of the French Revolution.

I always wanted to hear Father McFadden say, "substitution for the Hoyas, number 99, Soren Kirkegaard" (with the "Kirke-gore" pronunciation)

Do we need a Liberal Arts Seminar thread?

[Jack]

BubbleVisionBiff said:

Do we need a Liberal Arts Seminar thread?

No. One year of that was enough for me, thank you very much.