SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 4, 2006 10:25:16 GMT -5
You go your way, I'll go mine. Getting Jeff was the single most important recruiting moment to having a winning season under III the first year. There's not as much momentum without that.
Ewing was a big recruit, yes, but he wasn't everyone's #1, was he? And it wasn't Thompson's first highly ranked recruit -- the aforementioned Al Dutch signed as early as 1974. Ewing was a vitally important recruit because of context -- he got the team to the next level. And his getting the team to the next level put the program on the next level.
If we follow your point of view, which I notice now does have context and isn't your initial argument of "They were ranked #1," I don't remember the massive recruiting landslide that O's signing gave us since I wasn't following Georgetown then. Maybe you can illuminate me. So you can argue, maybe, in the future, someone like Macklin or Freeman would be more important than Zo. Maybe.
Obviously, we both agree that Chris Wright would be wonderful, but not on a Top 10 list.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on May 4, 2006 10:38:24 GMT -5
Ewing was a big recruit, yes, but he wasn't everyone's #1, was he? I was kinda young when Ewing was recruited, but I seem to remember hearing about it in the national media, long before that sort of thing was commonly reported. I think his recruitment may have actually been the start of all the nonsense that goes on today. IMHO, Ewing was the biggest recruit to ever sign at G'town, and he turned out to be as good as the hype.
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GPHoya
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Post by GPHoya on May 4, 2006 11:05:10 GMT -5
Hoya Chris is right.
Al Dutch was the watershed DC recruit qua recruit--a consensus All Met who did not play for JT II in high school. His signing begat Shelton and Duren.
Ewing was the watershed national recruit and he, of course, delivered the goods. We could recruit him credibly because of Shelton, Duren and Dutch and a relatively unknown recruit from Gastonia.
Will Freeman be the watershed DC recruit for JT III? If so, the play of Green and Hibbert and the success of JT III will be properly credited for creating an environment which is enticing to a player with Freeman's reputation.
Will Summers open up Baltimore again?
Does Macklin allow us to get the basketball elite prep school stars?
All of these markets are important (not to mention New Orleans), but it starts with protecting the base in DC and getting top kids from Dematha, St. John's etc. who can qualify straight out of high school. This is where we want to be. Freeman and Wright together, followed by Braswell, would be huge--particularly if they play up to the reps.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on May 4, 2006 11:23:25 GMT -5
You go your way, I'll go mine. Getting Jeff was the single most important recruiting moment to having a winning season under III the first year. There's not as much momentum without that. Maybe. But te view of his recruitment wasn't given much thought by either the national media or the local media. There was more buzz surrounding the Gist's signing with Maryland than there was with Green who was unknown by all except those who covered high school sports in this city and of course area high school junkies. [/b] signed as early as 1974. Ewing was a vitally important recruit because of context -- he got the team to the next level. And his getting the team to the next level put the program on the next level.[/quote] Ewing at the time became Thompson's most highly rated recruit. He was a very big get and from reports that I've read it gave Gtown more national recognition even before he stepped on the court. There was excitement surrounding his signing and much anticpation amaongst Hoya fans because of it. The same can not be said for Green. Mourning was actually an even higher rated recruit than Ewing. He was the consensus #1 prospect in his class and considered a better center coming out of high school than Ewing. The Gtown campus was all abuzz when Zo picked the Hoyas (this info I got from a family friend who was around at the time). And the national media attention given to the Hoyas increased again after a slight drop the previous years. The Hoyas would go into Mourning's frosh season as the #1 or #2 ranked team in the preseason polls and mags. This was following a season in which the Hoyas went only to the second round of the NCAA tourney. In others words Zo was the Greg Olden of his day. That puts him so far above Jeff Green's signing its not even funny. #1 recruit is all the context needed. I'll be happy to. Othella was consensus #1 but as the McDonald All American game approached he still had not decided and some were thinking that the Hoyas were losing their lead, especially with schools such as Kentucky (Pitino) hot on the trail. The Wpost did a front page writeup on O weeks before he signed with Gtown. On the day following his signing there was a front page story on it as well as a front page column by Michael Wilbon covering the event. The following day Thomas Boswell did his own column. JT was excited because the word was that he was losing his touch and would not be able to get O out of the souh. There was even speculation that JT would retire because he had no oen coming to replace Zo. So JT took time to gloat a little in his interviews; he was very excited about getting O and the national media treated it as a sign that Gtown was still a prominent program. And because of Othella Gtown would be ranked in the top ten in preseason rankings his freshmen season. Jef Green may be the better player but his recruitment was a non-story in this area. Maybe but it will be initially looked at as being far more impressive than Green's signing was initially viewed.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on May 4, 2006 11:28:46 GMT -5
"recruit qua recruit!" lol...only on hoyatalk... just a note: for a lot of kids, being in good with their AAU coaches/managers is bigger than high school coaches. i.e. getting a dc assault kid and having a good relationship with curtis malone is probably bigger than getting someone from baltimore or dematha or wherever. things have changed in that regard.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 4, 2006 12:00:30 GMT -5
Guys, no reason to argue the "importance" of Hoya recruits--they are all important and i'm for one glad they came.
To answer a question on Patrick Ewing's recruitment, he was by far the most high profile, highly publicized recruit to EVER sign with Georgetown. At the time of his recruitment was the #1 recruit in the country and let's put it this way--my relatives in Iowa, Missouri, Texas, and California all heard about him committing to Georgetown on their news and in the newspapers and that was back in 1980-81. I'd say that speaks to the significance of his commitment.
Alonzo Mourning was the same level of interest but he wasn't consensus #1 player--that was split with Billy Owens. Ewing was the #1 player in that class and being touted as an All Time Great. Zo was too--but during his SR year, he and Owens battled it out--now it's obvious who emerged as the best player out of those two--but that class was LOADED with talent--I still have the '88 Dapper Dan Game and it had Zo, Owens, Shawn Kemp, Chris Jackson--who was down to LSU and Georgetown at the time, and there were so many great players it wasn't even funny. You put Chris Jackson or Kenny Anderson with Zo and we are in at least 1 Final Four.
As for the current team--Jeff, Roy, Tyler, and Jonathan are all important--because they committed to a program that was down and wanted to turn it around. I am partical to Jeff--because he was rumored to be heading to Prep school and then possibly Syracuse--remember how cocky that butthead Mike Hopkins was at a Charity Golf Outing--mentioning how Jeff would be coming to Syracuse?? Green is my favorite current Hoya and one of the guys I'll put up there with anyone--he can dominate games with his presence and EWing was that way. You'd look at stat lines and he might have not had a lot of pts, boards, etc... but it was vital for him to be on the court for us to win/have a shot to win. That's a big time player.
As for the Chris Wright thing--let's just sign him and worry about where he fits after he signs/commits, LOL
I'll take him and Freeman and be one happy Hoya!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 4, 2006 12:15:31 GMT -5
Ewing was a very important signing, but he was not the unanimous #1 center in that high school class. There were a lot of those in the media that pushed for Stuart Gray (UCLA) or Greg Dreiling (Wichita State) instead, thinking Ewing was too emotional and that he had not competed against top talent in Boston. Ewing did not even play in the McDonald's A-A game that season, while Gray and Dreiling did. (The center for the East was Louisville recruit Manuel Forrest.) The stars of that game were Adrian Branch and a unheralded UNC recruit named Mike Jordan.
I support HoyaChris' assertion that the Dutch-Duren-Shelton signings were critical. Without those three, Georgetown doesn't get to a point that Ewing considers Georgetown among UNC and BC.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on May 4, 2006 12:22:24 GMT -5
Another reason I'm partial to Green is that JTIII will coach plenty of good players in the future.
But he will never, ever, if he coaches a million years coach a player BETTER for his style of coaching than Jeff Green. He's calm, versatile, athletic, smart, unselfish, skilled, and teachable. If JTIII had to build a forward for his offense, it would be Jeff Green.
Some players just reflect the values and culture of their coach and team so much, they become a symbol of the team to recruits and the basketball world at large. Jeff is already that to the recruits. When the media's obsession with the "Georgetown of old" dies down with regards to Roy being "another in a long line of big men" we'll see much more of Jeff. JTIII and Jeff are linked in a way that makes the serendipity of their arrival the same year even more special for this team.
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guru
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Post by guru on May 4, 2006 12:27:51 GMT -5
I'm shocked - shocked! - that this has even sparked an argument.
Patrick Ewing is, far and away, the most important recruit, player and - perhaps - figure in Georgetown basketball history.
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Post by bsure on May 4, 2006 13:53:54 GMT -5
Patrick Ewing probably was the most important recruit in the program's history, but the buzz about Alonzo Mourning was probably higher. Alonzo arrived in '88, and Thompson had his incoming freshman compete in the Olympic trials that summer. Those who followed the program back then should remember that the talk of the trials was that this incoming freshman was more than holding his own against David Robinson, and was one of the final team cuts. His play in the trials made him the most anticipated Freshman that year, not Billy Owens. DFW was right about Ewing, as there were 2 other centers who were thought to be in his category, or slightly better. I remember the piece in SI right after the McDs game, and the columnist had Ewing as the 3rd best center his senior year.
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guru
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Post by guru on May 4, 2006 14:01:33 GMT -5
That's all well and good, but are we talking perception or reality here? Perception wise, Mouring may have been more high profile than Ewing, but he didn't MATTER to the program nearly as much as Patrick.
Put it this way - and let me preface this by saying I respect what JTJr built here as much as anyome - but John Thompson isn't John Thompson without Patrick Ewing. His three Final Fours and his national championship all occurred while Patrick was at GU, and that stretch of dominance gave him the platform to become the outspoken celebrity and social activist that he became. Who knows if he ever would have attained such status without Patrick - all we know is he never got to a Final Four without him. Patrick is the #1 most important Georgetown recruit ever, with a bullet.
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Post by bsure on May 4, 2006 14:17:17 GMT -5
This is all about perception, not reality. The thread talks about where Wright would fit as an incoming Hoya get. Everyone knows that Ewing put Georgetown on the national scene and is their signature player, but Mourning's introduction to Georgetown was as anticipated at the time. Going into the NCAA tournament, Mourning's freshman team was the no.1 seed in the whole tournament. Their losing to Duke that year was thought by many to be a monumental shift in the balance of power in college basketball. Really the end of Georgetown's dominance, and the beginning of Duke's. This was also Georgetown's last team to win the Big East regular season and tourney championship.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on May 4, 2006 14:22:52 GMT -5
A testament to how highly sought-after Patrick was -- when he signed with GU, he became hated in Boston as some sort of traitor (ugly quotes from Pitino at BU included). We recounted some of this on another thread a while back.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on May 4, 2006 16:23:55 GMT -5
Patrick Ewing was one of the most prominent and important recruits in the history of COLLEGE BASKETBALL much less G'Town. No Ewing for the Hoyas puts the success of the Big East as a whole up in the air and potentially robs college hoops of two classic championship games and a whole disease known as Hoya Paranoia.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on May 4, 2006 16:30:33 GMT -5
Patrick Ewing was one of the most prominent and important recruits in the history of COLLEGE BASKETBALL much less G'Town. No Ewing for the Hoyas puts the success of the Big East as a whole up in the air and potentially robs college hoops of two classic championship games and a whole disease known as Hoya Paranoia. Great points brought up Paranoia. I also feel that Patrick Ewing is as responsible for creating the hype/hysteria for March Madness as anyone in history of CBB. Magic/Bird did it for television, but the Superdome in '82 was stage where CBB went to an entirely different level. As you said, Ewing and Georgetown made Big East important and CBB a must see thing.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 5, 2006 9:26:57 GMT -5
In fact, I'm not even sure the term Final Four was in wide circulation prior to the '82 coining of CBS' road to the Final Four.
You can be sure that the presence of the "most feared team in the nation" had a great deal to do with the explosion to follow. Whether that was for good or ill for real fans is a question open to debate.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on May 5, 2006 19:10:23 GMT -5
great debate!!! and yes I was talking about the impact of the signing, not what the player did in his career folowing. Wright, to me, would be a momumental signing for two reasons:
it would show GU can still get top quality PG's, something GU hasn't done since AI days.
two, it would show that GU is a now a serious player in recruting on a consistent basis, not just a Macklin or Freeman every now and then. As you know, it takes multiple top classes to prove you're a true player in the game.
The renaissance is apon us people. buckle up and enjoy the ride. I know I will.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on May 6, 2006 14:26:51 GMT -5
what about Kenny Brunner, ID? you also mentioned Scotty was in the bag, what happened?
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on May 6, 2006 15:34:05 GMT -5
We don't have any spots for Scottie if everyone stays - if we're out of the running for Reynolds, you can make your own inference. Scottie has a time table to committ and we have no where to put him at the moment.
I'm going to take a wild stab and say Reynolds winds up at Nova. Jay Wright has a lot of tape to show potential recruits at guard right now - they get to pretty much play the way they want and he's willing to play 3 or 4 of them at a time. It's an appealing situation for a kid who wants to get up and down and shoot pretty much whenever he feels like he can make it. And Reynolds could start immediately now that Lowry is pretty much gone. They also have Corey Fisher coming in next year, and they're high on the list of some other good ones (Chris Wright, for example.)
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on May 7, 2006 21:17:03 GMT -5
stuff happens
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