SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,401
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 21, 2004 16:40:50 GMT -5
Madge -- you might be right, but I'm unwilling to go the Cleo route and try to read DFW's mind. But surely you can see the difference between hiring a guy like John Thompson -- who the local Jersey papers were conjecturing BEFORE this year would be getting looks from teams in major conferences, and was only a matter of time before he left the university he spent his life with -- and handing the reins over to/extending Craig Esherick, can't you?
My biggest concern isn't with the hire, since I think it was a solid one, but with keeping the pressure on the administration so that they don't think they've now solved all of the program's problems by getting a new coach. That concern would be the same no matter who was hired, and I'm just hoping that the extended negotiating time with JT3 included a good deal of reassurances from University officials that basketball was going to be made a priority again.
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Post by jfrehl on Apr 21, 2004 17:48:31 GMT -5
If he's going to be a better coach than Eshrick, if his name's gonna attract better recruits and more donations from alums, and if the players are excited to have him as a coach, why complain? Georgetown could do a lot worse.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,992
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Post by kghoya on Apr 21, 2004 17:53:33 GMT -5
i really think that dfw posted a rumor which isnt really what this board is all about...at least so ive been told
im still trying to figure out the reason for his post other than to stir up a reaction...
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Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,434
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Post by Madgesdiq on Apr 21, 2004 18:13:26 GMT -5
I guess the main concern one could have have is if the hire of JT3 was made with the intent of getting a guy who would not rock the boat and maintain the status quo with respect to the litany of important issues that are currently facing the program. That was my concern about JJ. It is less of a concern with JT3, and I am hopeful that prolonged negotiations consisted of JT3 demanding that the administration make the committment to take the necessary steps in partnership with the coaching staff to bring Gtown basketball back to national prominence. Madge -- you might be right, but I'm unwilling to go the Cleo route and try to read DFW's mind. But surely you can see the difference between hiring a guy like John Thompson -- who the local Jersey papers were conjecturing BEFORE this year would be getting looks from teams in major conferences, and was only a matter of time before he left the university he spent his life with -- and handing the reins over to/extending Craig Esherick, can't you? My biggest concern isn't with the hire, since I think it was a solid one, but with keeping the pressure on the administration so that they don't think they've now solved all of the program's problems by getting a new coach. That concern would be the same no matter who was hired, and I'm just hoping that the extended negotiating time with JT3 included a good deal of reassurances from University officials that basketball was going to be made a priority again.
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
Posts: 1,313
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 21, 2004 18:23:16 GMT -5
Maybe I'm just naive, but I don't think JTIII is afraid of turning things upside-down, even if it may anger the admin or his dad.
In fact, I think to a large extent, that is why his father (and the rest of the coaching community, for that matter) respects him so much.
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Post by hoyas2getherforeve on Apr 21, 2004 20:53:48 GMT -5
I agree with DFW that it is not the hire that is the problem but the process. JTII could end up being a hero down the road but the process makes one feel a little dirty. To SOCALHOYA, I believe your source is not very good. Dawkins was never the front runner, if he was a runner at all. To imply that the committee found out something about him that was distasteful is unfair to a very sold and moral human being who was never in the running.
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 21, 2004 23:33:14 GMT -5
My source, who was intimately involved with the process, has REconfirmed that Dawkins was at one time the frontrunner, and that other coaches considering the position had considered it a done deal.
And case anyone else got the wrong impression, like hoyastogether, I have no idea why the committee switched tracks on Dawkins. I have no information that would call into question his "moral" background. It could've just been a $ issue, which could've been hard for either side to agree on...
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Post by michiganhoya on Apr 22, 2004 6:38:55 GMT -5
SoCal ... your information does not seem that useful. You claim that Dawkins was the frontrunner but then mysteriously dropped out of the running because of some secret issue.
What was that issue? Which other coaches were interviewed? When did JTIII emerge as the frontrunner? How big a role did JTII play? What about the $700 million for Afghanistan?
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Post by hoyas2getherforeve on Apr 22, 2004 7:48:15 GMT -5
socalhoya- I say once again I would check your sources, I can promise you Dawkins was never in the running!!!! I actually by chance ran into one of the committee members and asked him this questions out right. The answer was strong that they were only considering candidates with head coaching experience. This was early in process. This information with the other information I have regarding Dawkins - I can tell you 100% that Dawkins was never the front runner and his name was never in the hat. If you care to e-mai me I can be more forthcoming not on a public message board.
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GPHoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 466
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Post by GPHoya on Apr 22, 2004 7:50:08 GMT -5
Hoops McCann:
You have either missed or deliberately misstated my position.
Based on his statement at the press conference, I infer that Coach Thompson will not materially change our schedule for the coming season because he wants to win some games in his first season with a team that he does not expect to be highly competitive.
I am okay with that and was trying to head-off heavy early criticism from others who have held out scheduling improvement as one of the litmus tests for the new coach. Much as I would like and expect Coach Thompson to upgrade the out of conference schedule over time, I am for giving him a free pass.
Indeed, I am inclined to give him a free pass on everything but integrity issues (about which I expect no problems) for at least three years because I think that is in the best interests of the progam to do so. Offering qualified or conditional support or withholding judgment on his selection is unproductive because there will not be a second chance to get this right if he does not achieve a modicum of reasonable success. If he ultimately fails, we can all spend the rest of our lifes lamenting how Georgetown blew a singular opportunity in the 1980's through a combination of arrogance, hubris, sloth and ignorance as we watch our beloved Hoyas drop from the Big East cellar into Patriot League oblivion. For the next several years, he is the last, best chance for salvaging a credible and competitive position in major college basketball (albeit a dim reflection of the brilliance of the dominant 80's).
As far as I am concerned, he can schedule who he wants, play or bench who he wants without regard to short term wins or losses, and hire the assistants who he wants (but please not Ronny) as long as he is building and making progress.
In his father's second year at Georgetown and my senior year, his team went into a slump and his coaching judgments were highly suspect. On the road against Fordham in Rose Hill, he tried to hold the ball with a one point lead and seven minutes to go by relying on an erratic freshman point guard named Alonzo Holloway. In my vast wisdom as a 21-year old, I wrote a critical column in The Hoya entitled "The Honeymoon is Over" in which I critiqued the lack of fundatmentals (no boxing out, no cutting off the baseline, no halfcourt offensive structure). A day after the column was published a racist moron dropped the infamous banner and I was mortified for the university and for the possibility that my criticism could have validated or inspired this warped individual.
Thirty years later, I am resolved that Coach Thompson should receive a longer honeymoon period than I was willing to extend to his father. My resolution comes not just from seeing the benefits that we all derived from having a university administration that remained patient and supportive of JT Jr. as he learned and grew through the 70's. I have watched similar development for Jim O'Brien and Al Skinner through some lean and disappointing years at BC before they hung Big East championship banners at Conte. I remember Calhoun's struggles at UConn as well in the early years.
Whatever our views on the merits or process for selecting Coach Thompson, self-interest as well as basic fairness dictates that we extend to him an unqualified welcome and an extended honeymoon period of support where we suppress our instincts for critical thinking and writing. He is entitled to every benefit of the doubt.
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Apr 22, 2004 9:42:26 GMT -5
A slight correction of the GP narrative. The banner incident was in John Thompson's third year.
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Post by michiganhoya on Apr 22, 2004 10:14:49 GMT -5
Give the guy (GP) a break, he's clearly an old man.
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SoCalHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
No es bueno
Posts: 1,313
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Post by SoCalHoya on Apr 22, 2004 10:29:43 GMT -5
1) Source would not say what "other coaches" were involved. But the source did confirm there were other coaches, and that they were convinced Dawkins had it made. Dawkins was talking to GU family members.
2) I have no idea what "the issue" was that made the cmte switch tracks (in fact, it was probably the fact that we decided to only pursue those with head coaching experience, explaining the quick drop in interest).
3) I don't know when JT III emerged as frontrunner.
My take: put both stories together and it actually makes sense. Dawkins was a favorite, talked to some folks at GU, committee formally met, decided "head coaches only", Dawkins was then dropped from candidate list, search continued and found JT III was best fit.
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Post by hoyas2getherforeve on Apr 22, 2004 10:46:50 GMT -5
Since no one but the "committee" knows the whole truth I think this is as close to it as we will ever come and now onto a new beginning with a hopefully happy ending.
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