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Post by theEDGEfactor on Apr 4, 2006 14:38:26 GMT -5
we all know thornton has the shot but really id rather work on sapps point skills than shooting skills-but deff crawford and egerson it wouldnt hurt for them 2 get better in the perimeter J category
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 4, 2006 16:11:02 GMT -5
Key for next year: guard play.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Apr 4, 2006 16:21:16 GMT -5
OK, I think watching UCLA's stinker last night (yes, I was the one) shows you cannot win in D1 bball without the ability as a team to shoot the 3. Specifically, when playing a motion offense, you have to show the ability to take and make 3s within the flow of the offense- not rushed, but judicious. We can't simply say, we're throwing 3 tall players who are good out there and hope they all work out. We need at a minimum 3 players who can hit 3s consistently, plus one who can hit mid-range jumpers and one who could post up if no backdoors can be found. The ability of next year's squad to hit 3s consistently within the offense will be possibly the biggest challenge we'll have, and we should hope they adapt to it. I hope guys like Thornton, Crawford, Wallace, Sapp and Ewing are working on this- it will be crucial to the team's success next year. Great post, YB, and also some great stats, TrueHoyaBlue. While I didn't mean to make it seem like I was saying that outside shooting wouldn't mean much to next year's team, I was merely saying that if we could shoot at the same percentage as this year's team (35%), then I think we'd be fine. Doesn't mean we necessarily have to make as many threes as we did last year, but I'm pretty confident that our lineup next year can at least match that 3pt shooting percentage. 35% as a team is barely above average, by NCAA standards. I think it was Pitino who said that shooting 33% from 3 was the same as shooting 50% from 2 (when he was defending his players' gunner mentality). You can bet that with Roy/Jeff/Macklin next year, we're going to be shooting a hell of a lot better than 50% from 2.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Apr 4, 2006 16:24:19 GMT -5
I agree with the obvious stuff already stated - we need three point threats to open up space inside.
We only have one guy we know will get playing time and be able to hit better than 33% for sure from deep - Wallace. We don't really have anyone who can make "tough threes" - shots that are deep, contested, or off screens.
Green will hit some threes too, but I can't really say I have confidence in anyone else (maybe Summers). Hopefully Sapp or Ewing improve a lot in that area. Otherwise JTIII might have to bite the bullet and give Thornton minutes, because we can't have Wallace and Green as the only guys taking more than 1 three a game.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Apr 4, 2006 16:28:01 GMT -5
I agree with the obvious stuff already stated - we need three point threats to open up space inside. We only have one guy we know will get playing time and be able to hit better than 33% for sure from deep - Wallace. We don't really have anyone who can make "tough threes" - shots that are deep, contested, or off screens. Green will hit some threes too, but I can't really say I have confidence in anyone else (maybe Summers). Hopefully Sapp or Ewing improve a lot in that area. Otherwise JTIII might have to bite the bullet and give Thornton minutes, because we can't have Wallace and Green as the only guys taking more than 1 three a game. Don't forget about Rivers or Egerson. Marc shot the ball well from outside in his limited time, and I could definitely see him as a guy who we could count on to hit at least one three a game. What's the word on Rivers' perimeter game?
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njcoach
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Post by njcoach on Apr 4, 2006 16:28:02 GMT -5
This offense **requires** 3-point potency.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 4, 2006 16:39:08 GMT -5
A Lee Humphrey type player would really make this team a force next season. Maybe Thornton can be that for us - a pure spot up shooter who can hit those threes that tear the heart out of the other team
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 4, 2006 16:42:58 GMT -5
We don't really have anyone who can make "tough threes" - shots that are deep, contested, or off screens. Exactly. From an offensive standpoint, there are really five ways to score. You've got jump shooting, low post play, dribble penetration, offensive rebounding and fast breaks. To be really well rounded, you should be able to do each of these (Florida could, with penetration being their weakest link, I think). However, once in a half court set, say, as the shot clock is winding down, you can't initiate a fast break or count on offensive boards (well, you can, but bad idea). So you've got a choice to put it in the post, hit a jumper or create offense through penetration. Next year, we've got #1. But we're possibly less likely to do #2 next year, and we have a problem with #3 as well. If we can't shoot or take people off the dribble, we won't be able to get the ball into the post because the sagging we'll see will be awful. We need someone to step up like Ashanti to be more well rounded.
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DrumsGoBang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on Apr 4, 2006 16:54:50 GMT -5
I'm betting Greens 3pt and FT % improve slightly over the summer. That will give us a few extra points. Also I think that we are going to be doing a lot more rotation of the guards and bigs this year. A lot more people will get to see the floor and hit some outside shots. I do like Cooks fade-away 2 pointers. Maybe someone like Sapp can learn to do that.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 4, 2006 16:56:31 GMT -5
This offense **requires** 3-point potency. Hearkening back to BE media day -- When asked what the first thing they looked for in a player, Bo-heem and Calhoun started talking about character, etc. Thompson just wanted shooters.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 4, 2006 17:14:59 GMT -5
Its kind of hard to gauge this team right now because of so many things.
I think next year you will see some adjustments from JTIII. Because next year's team seems more like a Pops type team now more than ever. Our frontcourt is loaded. PE2, JG, and Roy make for an excellent inside players. I think Crawford may get more playing time, but although he is a guard, he is more in the mold of Perry McDonald. He is more of a forward, a banger. Maybe Crawford starts at small forward.
BUT, who is our starting small forward? Will Tay make a drastic step up and start? Is Rivers good enough to start and warrant a 3 guard offense by III? I think Sapp will start next year alongside Wallace.
The question mark is the small forward position, because I don't see PE2 as a small forward. I see him as a PF/C. Again, I'm judging by what I saw him do at Indiana. He may have a SF built, but his game seemed more like a PF. Jeff could play SF, but I think he is better suited at the PF position with Roy at C. Are Macklin and Summers PF's?
I don't really see us being a great 3-pt shooting team next year. Even though we shot alot of 3's this year, were we really a "great" or should I say consistent 3-pt shooting team at all the last 2 years? Again, I think JTIII may switch things up. He is going to keep the Princeton, of course, but I think you will see some adjustments on his part. This team seems like a Pops type team for next year.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 4, 2006 17:26:50 GMT -5
Summers is a SF. So is PE2--he is much more like Bowman in build and height, and his game is much better suited to being the SF. That's one of the main reasons he transferred--he was being misused at Indiana. Him at PF is very similar to when Esherick was starting Bowman at PF his sophomore year.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 4, 2006 17:29:48 GMT -5
Summers is a SF. So is PE2--he is much more like Bowman in build and height, and his game is much better suited to being the SF. That's one of the main reasons he transferred--he was being misused at Indiana. Him at PF is very similar to when Esherick was starting Bowman at PF his sophomore year. With that said, you think he takes Brandon's spot?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 4, 2006 17:41:43 GMT -5
Definately. PE2 will be starting next year. He looked awesome in kenner, he's got a year of practice in the offense under his belt and Wilbon said that some people close to the program thought he was the best player on our team this year.
That being said, Summers is supposed to be a stud too and he should get some minutes (maybe in a Sapp style role?).
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Apr 4, 2006 19:07:37 GMT -5
If Crawford starts @ SF, we're in trouble. First off, he's not big enough. Secondly, he hasn't proven consistently that he can shoot or dribble drive. Lastly, there's too much talent ahead of him. I think junior will start @ the 3. Summers, ticket, Rivers, thorton and tay and Luv will all play. Don't know how you can fit crawford in. Watch out for Luv@ the 3. He has some experience, has an improving stroke, is a bull and can finish. If that shot gets consistent, he'll take alot of Tay's minutes.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 4, 2006 19:20:41 GMT -5
If Crawford starts @ SF, we're in trouble. First off, he's not big enough. Secondly, he hasn't proven consistently that he can shoot or dribble drive. Lastly, there's too much talent ahead of him. I think junior will start @ the 3. Summers, ticket, Rivers, thorton and tay and Luv will all play. Don't know how you can fit crawford in. Watch out for Luv@ the 3. He has some experience, has an improving stroke, is a bull and can finish. If that shot gets consistent, he'll take alot of Tay's minutes. I forgot all about Edge. Yeah, that is right. I think he can fit in nicely at the 3 and play 2 at times.
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HoyaSpirit
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Post by HoyaSpirit on Apr 4, 2006 22:37:12 GMT -5
We don't really have anyone who can make "tough threes" - shots that are deep, contested, or off screens. Exactly. From an offensive standpoint, there are really five ways to score. You've got jump shooting, low post play, dribble penetration, offensive rebounding and fast breaks. To be really well rounded, you should be able to do each of these (Florida could, with penetration being their weakest link, I think). However, once in a half court set, say, as the shot clock is winding down, you can't initiate a fast break or count on offensive boards (well, you can, but bad idea). So you've got a choice to put it in the post, hit a jumper or create offense through penetration. Next year, we've got #1. But we're possibly less likely to do #2 next year, and we have a problem with #3 as well. If we can't shoot or take people off the dribble, we won't be able to get the ball into the post because the sagging we'll see will be awful. We need someone to step up like Ashanti to be more well rounded. SF Hoya, I agree, this used to happen when we had Sweets and one other big guy (I think it was Ruben one year, and Wesley Wilson another) - things got jampacked down low with both of them down there, and in addition teams packed it in on us a lot because we only had 1 or 2 guys at any given time ready to bury a 3 pointer and make the defense pay. When teams pack it in on us, it also makes offensive rebounds somewhat harder to get. This should be offset by some added height - I just don't think we're going to get as much of an overall boost in offensive rebounds as some folks have predicted on this thread. If teams don't pack it in on us, we'll get some more than last year, but if they pack it in, I think we'll get about the same number. I really hope JT3 is aware of the potential of this problem and encourages players to work on it now. Also, we were not this last year that much of a fast break team (though we perhaps could have done it more) and next year we will probably be less so with more bigs and fewer experienced guards (cook and owens) on the team. So of the five ways of scoring you mention, only inside play is a real strength, and even that could get shut down a good amount if we don't develop the outside shots or dribble drives. And the dribble drives get shut down fairly easily too when teams pack it in a lot, so the outside shooting becomes the thing again.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Apr 4, 2006 22:50:11 GMT -5
I think it is almost certain that we are a less efficient offensive team next year.
However, I still think we will be a better team overall, thanks to better defense and rebounding. But to be a top 10 caliber team, we will need 3 point shooting. Hopefully someone steps into that role (more than one "someone," preferably).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 4, 2006 23:12:46 GMT -5
We don't really have anyone who can make "tough threes" - shots that are deep, contested, or off screens. Exactly. From an offensive standpoint, there are really five ways to score. You've got jump shooting, low post play, dribble penetration, offensive rebounding and fast breaks. To be really well rounded, you should be able to do each of these (Florida could, with penetration being their weakest link, I think). However, once in a half court set, say, as the shot clock is winding down, you can't initiate a fast break or count on offensive boards (well, you can, but bad idea). So you've got a choice to put it in the post, hit a jumper or create offense through penetration. Next year, we've got #1. But we're possibly less likely to do #2 next year, and we have a problem with #3 as well. I thought I read here that Rivers is strong and can penetrate at will.
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Apr 4, 2006 23:16:59 GMT -5
Why would anybody think that a player of Jeff Green's intellect and work ethic wouldn't come back next year with a sweet 3 point shot and some better perimeter skills? If Jeff wants to raise his game to that of a meaningful NBA player he's got to develop a better 3 point shot. The "problem" with next year's squad is like the posts before mention: It's more of a JT 2 team. To me with the number of capable players coming back and the potential to physically dominate most teams running a 30 second offense limits the chances of our horses to blow out teams and may give our opponents a better shot to win. Running teams into the ground with a serious press and track meet fastbreak is what our personnel calls for. It wil be interesting to say the least to see how JT 3 handles it.
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