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Post by OklaHoya2006 on Apr 17, 2004 10:47:22 GMT -5
I got the scoop on the e-mail writer for everyone who wants to know even more on HB's lack of credibility - he was drunk.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 17, 2004 11:22:03 GMT -5
Hoya Blue just lost any credibility on campus they had, which from what I can gather is very little. I wish people with actual leadership skills would get involved and maybe it will become something to talk about. I can't excuse the behavior of the e-mail's author and will not defend the apparent lack of leadership displayed by many in the HB organization, but I also can't defend many other groups affiliated with the program. Many of them have not been as successful as they should be in leading their respective groups. First, President DeGioia, while his decision to remove Esherick was the correct decision and the right thing to do, has not shown anything else over the last few years that suggests to me that he is doing his part to lead the program toward its on-the-court goal of winning a national championship. Were it not for an influential few, who would our coach be today? Second, the HHC can clearly do more. Less than 1% of GU alumni give to the basketball program. I wonder how many of them actually know about the HHC. They need to be more visible and active, for starters. Third, there has also been a lack of leadership within the program due to Craig Esherick. I won't belabor the point, but how much better is he than the Hoya Blue folks? He's an Eshoholic, and some of them are alcoholics. Pick your poison, but the two have the same results. It can go on and on, but, the way I see it, Hoya Blue is not alone in the sense that they have lacked some leadership over the last few years. Many other, more influential people in the program have also lacked leadership, candor (Esherick), etc.
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 17, 2004 11:38:22 GMT -5
This isn't the "Craig was a horrible leader and never deserved a damn thing that he got" thread.
This is the "Boy, was Hoya Blue irresponsible or what? Is this a trend or what?" thread.
Hence, this is where you will find Hoya Blue-bashing. If you want people to leave Hoya Blue alone, post in another thread and don't read this one.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 17, 2004 11:44:08 GMT -5
This isn't the "Craig was a horrible leader and never deserved a damn thing that he got" thread. This is the "Boy, was Hoya Blue irresponsible or what? Is this a trend or what?" thread. Hence, this is where you will find Hoya Blue-bashing. If you want people to leave Hoya Blue alone, post in another thread and don't read this one. Re-read my post. I said that I would not excuse HB and would not defend the lack of leadership in the current organization. If you think I want people to leave HB alone, either you didn't read my post, didn't read it carefully, or wanted to distort what I said to fit your general line of thought. I also believe that Esherick deserved some of the things that he got. He deserved to serve as interim coach through the end of the 1999 season. He deserved, in the eyes of a great coach, the opportunity to play basketball at a fine academic institution. So, wrong again on that characterization. My point is that many of the criticisms of HB in this thread should not be isolated, but should be taken in context. Some of them are home-grown problems, but many others are symptomatic of what exists throughout all levels of the program, in my mind.
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Joe Hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 17, 2004 13:21:06 GMT -5
We all know that Hoya Blue "isn't alone", as you said.
But in this thread, we're taking Hoya Blue to task. There are other threads (i.e. all of them) to bash the others you mentioned.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 17, 2004 15:15:27 GMT -5
We all know that Hoya Blue "isn't alone", as you said. But in this thread, we're taking Hoya Blue to task. There are other threads (i.e. all of them) to bash the others you mentioned. So what? JerseyHoya's right. Just because this thread started out talking about the email and moved to a more general discussion of Hoya Blue's problems doesn't mean JerseyHoya can't make a very astute observation that they are not the ONLY problem that needs fixin'. I mean, my previous post in the thread spends a lot of time talking about what the average student needs to improve about their involvement with the team. I think it's an important point to make. But it wasn't about Hoya Blue entirely, I offered non-HB options for involvement. If this thread is supposed to be only about why Hoya Blue sucks, well that doesn't do much good. I know--the first step is admitting we have a problem and so forth. But where we REALLY get something done is when we start talking about what can be done and identifying areas of improvement. JerseyHoya pointed to several areas of improvement that need to be made OUTSIDE of Hoya Blue. He sees a similar culture in those groups as we have in HB, and I think that's a darn significant point, and at worst a logical enough connection to the HB discussion to warrant posting in this thread. And if you look at YB's recent posts, you'll see he is attempting to integrate HHC and the Athletic Dept. with HB in his efforts. These constituencies absolutely belong together IMO. And in this thread too. And I will add on the points about Esherick in the above posts my personal take. I like how when interviewers ask Phil Mickelson now about what it was like being the best golfer without a major for so long, he smiles, tugs on his green jacket and says "I don't have to think about that anymore" and moves on. For me, the question that is being brought up here...Did Craig deserve what he got? From my perspective, I like to shrug my shoulders and say "He's gone, don't gotta think about that anymore". And move on. Let's not worry about Craig anymore. Let's focus our energies (and finally FLHoya gets back to Hoya Blue and his original point)... ...on giving the new coach--whoever, whenever--a nice big welcome and doing our part as students with Hoya Blue or without to make sure that we ALL do better to help support the team next year. Because Jersey's right after all. HB has faltered, but everyone needs to improve. ----- On the "Hoya Blue emailer being drunk" scoop above, I will submit for the record that the email was sent at 3:21pm in the afternoon. ;D Good times. --FLHoya--
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Post by BlueHoya04 on Apr 17, 2004 20:03:34 GMT -5
OK, so I do indeed have egg on my face....
Yes, I am the one who sent out the Hoya Blue email about the anticipated JT3 announcement.
First off, my sincere apologies for spreading a rumor that turned out to be false. Two kids on the basketball team had said, independently, that they had been told on Tuesday that JT3's hiring would be announced last night. I don't know if this information was untrue, or if the announcement was simply delayed (perhaps because Joe Lang had to skip the banquet at the last minute?), but either way I apologize for spreading a false rumor.
Secondly, to whichever person posted the "scoop" about me being drunk when I sent out the email, I'll just say that it was 3:30 in the afternoon and I was sitting at work in the middle of an 8-hour day at the office. Sorry to dissapoint.
Thirdly, and most importantly, I want to respond briefly to the posters (both in this thread and in previous threads throughout the year) who have bashed Hoya Blue and our efforts around campus. I'm certainly not going to pretend that we're perfect. But I only ask that in the future, rather than typing up a post on this message board complaining about the latest Hoya Blue email you've recieved, please instead click the "reply" button on that email and forward your suggestions directly to us. Say what you will about Hoya Blue, but the fact is that we are one of the most bottom-up, membership driven groups on campus. Many of our projects and events are ideas that come not from the chairmen, board members, or other members of the "black-shirt-wearing, I-planned-Midnight-Madness" fraternity that was criticized above, but rather from students who have been willing to put in the effort to bring their ideas to us and help us make them happen. In the next few weeks, we're going to put out a general call for applications for next year's Hoya Blue Executive Board. In fact, I'll be sure to put an announcment on this message board when we do. If you are really that distressed about the direction Hoya Blue is taking, please take the time to apply. It may take a little more time and effort than simply typing up a negative post on this message board, but if you really are a committed, rabid Hoya fan, we need your enthusiasm and dedication. In other words, put up or shut up.
Again, I apologize for spreading around a rumor that turned out not to be true. I knew that the 900+ students on our email list would want to know the info on our coaching situation as soon possible, much as they did when I announced to them the scoop of Esherick's firing a few weeks ago. (An announcement, I might add, that also drew criticism on this message board until it was confirmed by ESPN several hours later). But please don't use this mistake as an excuse to bash Hoya Blue in general; the mistake was mine personally, not the club's. I'm still under the impression (if my info is worth anything anymore) that JT3 will be announced shortly, at which point you can bank on Hoya Blue loudly and enthusiastically trumpetting this news around campus. Until then, I apologize and encourage everyone to keep their fingers crossed.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 18, 2004 8:32:19 GMT -5
OK, so I do indeed have egg on my face.... Yes, I am the one who sent out the Hoya Blue email about the anticipated JT3 announcement. First off, my sincere apologies for spreading a rumor that turned out to be false. Two kids on the basketball team had said, independently, that they had been told on Tuesday that JT3's hiring would be announced last night. I don't know if this information was untrue, or if the announcement was simply delayed (perhaps because Joe Lang had to skip the banquet at the last minute?), but either way I apologize for spreading a false rumor. Secondly, to whichever person posted the "scoop" about me being drunk when I sent out the email, I'll just say that it was 3:30 in the afternoon and I was sitting at work in the middle of an 8-hour day at the office. Sorry to dissapoint. Thirdly, and most importantly, I want to respond briefly to the posters (both in this thread and in previous threads throughout the year) who have bashed Hoya Blue and our efforts around campus. I'm certainly not going to pretend that we're perfect. But I only ask that in the future, rather than typing up a post on this message board complaining about the latest Hoya Blue email you've recieved, please instead click the "reply" button on that email and forward your suggestions directly to us. Say what you will about Hoya Blue, but the fact is that we are one of the most bottom-up, membership driven groups on campus. Many of our projects and events are ideas that come not from the chairmen, board members, or other members of the "black-shirt-wearing, I-planned-Midnight-Madness" fraternity that was criticized above, but rather from students who have been willing to put in the effort to bring their ideas to us and help us make them happen. In the next few weeks, we're going to put out a general call for applications for next year's Hoya Blue Executive Board. In fact, I'll be sure to put an announcment on this message board when we do. If you are really that distressed about the direction Hoya Blue is taking, please take the time to apply. It may take a little more time and effort than simply typing up a negative post on this message board, but if you really are a committed, rabid Hoya fan, we need your enthusiasm and dedication. In other words, put up or shut up. Again, I apologize for spreading around a rumor that turned out not to be true. I knew that the 900+ students on our email list would want to know the info on our coaching situation as soon possible, much as they did when I announced to them the scoop of Esherick's firing a few weeks ago. (An announcement, I might add, that also drew criticism on this message board until it was confirmed by ESPN several hours later). But please don't use this mistake as an excuse to bash Hoya Blue in general; the mistake was mine personally, not the club's. I'm still under the impression (if my info is worth anything anymore) that JT3 will be announced shortly, at which point you can bank on Hoya Blue loudly and enthusiastically trumpetting this news around campus. Until then, I apologize and encourage everyone to keep their fingers crossed. Welcome aboard, BlueHoya. Thanks for giving us some background on the info that you sent out. If nothing else, many others, including Michael Wilbon, have said that JT3 is/was a leader for the job. So, I think that your info was correct to a certain degree at one point in time. Anyway, I think the main problem that I have is not so much whether the info was true or false. The issue is that Hoya Blue should not be in the business of putting news out there. Leave it for ESPN. The two hours between when a decision is made regarding the coach and when the news is broken will not make a difference to most Hoyas. In my mind, Hoya Blue should be more about supporting whoever shows up come October/November, whether it be JT3, Dawkins, or anyone else, and supporting the program, whatever path that it takes. The advice that has been given in this thread by a well-respected mind in the GU basketball community should be heeded. Also, your point is well taken about people on this message board. I have been known to levy some harsh criticism from time to time. So, please post on here about opportunities to be involved in Hoya Blue next year, and I will be more than willing to put up, as I want to do what I can to bring about some change in Hoya Blue, which I think we can agree would be beneficial. Please also keep the board posted on the day-to-day workings of Hoya Blue. Many alums on here have great ideas and have been involved more recently in some interesting discussions. It would be great to establish more coordination among the different interest groups so that everyone is moving in the same direction and on the same page. Anyway, thanks again for stopping by and please stick around.
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Post by T-Bone on Apr 18, 2004 14:34:30 GMT -5
Confirmation from 2 players actually on the team is a lot better source material than what often passes for "sources" on this board, I think people should cut BlueHoya some slack.
As for those people so upset about the "elitism of Hoya Blue", I would like to hear EXACTLY how those people tried to get involved and were shunned by the board. It's easy to throw stones from afar.
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Post by RaleighHoya on Apr 18, 2004 15:22:05 GMT -5
Jersey,
I do not think that anyone will argue Hoya Blue is just a symptom of a bigger problem. However, I feel it is the easiest symptom to correct. It gets frustrating when the people who have the ability to be most involved, either lack the motivation or leadership. Clearly they do not have much help in the way of Hoyas Unlimited or more directly the HHC, but that should not be an excuse. It is a lot easier to get students involved due to their proximity, then a bunch of alumni that live hundreds of miles away. BOth are important though.
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Post by 1975hoya on Apr 18, 2004 16:01:49 GMT -5
I also was surprised that the announcement was not made before or at the banquet. No one should be surprised when JTIII is announced as the head coach. This was a done deal probably even before Coach E. was fired.The guess here is that there has been a snag in the negotiations either on salary, length of contract,assistant coaches that should be kept or dimissed and perhaps quarrels over who may be allowed to come on board (brother?)...or any combination of the above. We were probably only seeing the tip of the iceberg last year with what took place on the floor...there is probably a lot that needs to be straightened out...apparently there was even a manager on the team that is on full scholarship that was out of control....this will take some time to straighten out what was(is) a bigger mess than everybody realized(realizes). Unfortunately the longer this goes on the more chance we stand to lose current players and recruits or potential recruits and thus make problems even worse. Green was awesome last night and it is really going to be a shame if he doesn't get his SAT score! Selah
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Post by sambomash on Apr 18, 2004 16:32:31 GMT -5
That's your opinion. It remains to be seen if Thompson III can cut it. At this stage -- GU needs a coach with the ability to recruit and to coach with skill to get the Hoyas back in conmtention, especially with the new Big East lineup.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 18, 2004 17:39:46 GMT -5
This was a done deal probably even before Coach E. was fired. Absolutely not. Jack DeGioia would not have made the public statements he did to support Craig if there was some "done deal" waiting out there. And not too many "done deals" go 4-5 weeks, either. Georgetown has to be very careful in this search because of what faces them heading forward. There are no assurances out there, nor should there be.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Apr 18, 2004 17:47:07 GMT -5
Confirmation from 2 players actually on the team is a lot better source material than what often passes for "sources" on this board, I think people should cut BlueHoya some slack. As for those people so upset about the "elitism of Hoya Blue", I would like to hear EXACTLY how those people tried to get involved and were shunned by the board. It's easy to throw stones from afar. I can't speak for anyone's story but my own on this point. I was in contact with the Hoya Blue people in August, just prior to the beginning of school, about being a columnist, article-writer, or game recapper on their website--basically an open-ended invitation to do whatever they wanted. At the time, they gave me a polite "thanks but no thanks" because they had enough people working on the site already. I did say I would be interested in doing guest columns. At the time, it didn't bother me at all--in fact, i was excited because it probably meant if they had such a good response that they were turning people away, this was a sign of good things to come. Of course, since then the site's gone through some problems, including being down for a long time. And I never did see a lot of different people's work on it--maybe it was decided that columns per se weren't the best thing for the site and that it was better used to promote events. But it bugged me later on that it died, b/c it seemed like they could've had more people willing to work. BlueHoya's got a point when he calls on people to be more direct w/ his organization in identifying problems and proposing new activities, rather than just spewing fire on the internet. In my first big post in the thread I focused the second half on just that point. I'm not going to say that Hoya Blue has done a good job in reaching out to kids this year, because in my opinion they haven't. But I will second the notion that every kid whose got a concern should take it to them and try to be part of the solution, even if you're not on the board. We all want the same thing here--for Hoya Blue to be a huge presence on campus and to be a solid force in promoting the team. Hopefully we're taking some steps here to come closer to that.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 18, 2004 18:46:27 GMT -5
I like that everyone is discussing this issue and I would like to see us all come together and help improve Hoya Blue. I joined the board in the second semester and I look forward to helping improve Hoya Blue a great deal. I've only been a part of the board for a short time and although I haven't done much yet there are certainly many things that bother me about how the board works. Im not about to bash my fellow board members on an internet talk board but the point is we all need to improve. I know that most of the board members are extremely busy and dont have much free time but I also think that if they cant find time for board meetings or attending sporting events then they should give up their position and let someone else who really wants to be there join the board. Once again, not to insult anyone on the board but I honestly dont remember seeing many board members at basketball games. I attended every single game and I dont recall them being at many. Im sorry, but in my opinion that is completely unacceptable. I dont mean this to insult or criticize anyone, but that simpy needs to change.
In my first year at Georgetown the only thing that I have truly been upset about is the lack of support for our sports teams. I cant comprehend the complete lack of loyalty that I see among my fellow students everyday. For me it is completely incomprehensible to even wear a piece of clothing from another college, but I see and talk to students everyday who not only wear other teams apparel but are actually fans of those teams. We need to help change this. It truly hurts me to see a kid wearing Syracuse shorts or a "Go Orange" t-shirt.
Now, as my fellow board member has already said, we need everyone to get involved rather than just complaining about the ineffectiveness of Hoya Blue. I am going to be listening to what everyone has to say and I would love to hear any suggestions you have to offer. I have 3 more years ahead of me at Georgetown and I intend to change everyone's opinion of Hoya Blue before I leave this university.
I invite any students out there who read this talkboard and others who dont but are truly loyal supporters of Georgetown to apply for the Hoya Blue board (especially people like JerseyHoya and FLHoya). I am hoping that my fellow board members will also listen to all of you but I think I read this board more than any of them so I will try to communicate your concerns to them.
We must unite and bring back school spirit to the Georgetown student body. I am looking forward to turning Hoya Blue into a much more effective organization and making students proud of all of our sports teams, not just basketball. Of course basketball will always be the most important sport here but we need to change the way people view athletics in general at Georgetown.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Apr 19, 2004 8:47:30 GMT -5
Well, BlueHoya and GUHoya2007, I would like to help from an alum standpoint by coordinating what HHC and the AD do with you guys.... for instance, instead of not knowing if the coach would be announced Friday, the AD should have coordinated that with you instead of leaving you hanging.
HB should be more active. HHC and the AD should as well. I think they can do more in a coordinated way to really increase the effectiveness of it all.
I'd be happy to chat more by IM/email about it.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 19, 2004 16:32:51 GMT -5
I like that everyone is discussing this issue and I would like to see us all come together and help improve Hoya Blue. I joined the board in the second semester and I look forward to helping improve Hoya Blue a great deal. I've only been a part of the board for a short time and although I haven't done much yet there are certainly many things that bother me about how the board works. Im not about to bash my fellow board members on an internet talk board but the point is we all need to improve. I know that most of the board members are extremely busy and dont have much free time but I also think that if they cant find time for board meetings or attending sporting events then they should give up their position and let someone else who really wants to be there join the board. Once again, not to insult anyone on the board but I honestly dont remember seeing many board members at basketball games. I attended every single game and I dont recall them being at many. Im sorry, but in my opinion that is completely unacceptable. I dont mean this to insult or criticize anyone, but that simpy needs to change. In my first year at Georgetown the only thing that I have truly been upset about is the lack of support for our sports teams. I cant comprehend the complete lack of loyalty that I see among my fellow students everyday. For me it is completely incomprehensible to even wear a piece of clothing from another college, but I see and talk to students everyday who not only wear other teams apparel but are actually fans of those teams. We need to help change this. It truly hurts me to see a kid wearing Syracuse shorts or a "Go Orange" t-shirt. Now, as my fellow board member has already said, we need everyone to get involved rather than just complaining about the ineffectiveness of Hoya Blue. I am going to be listening to what everyone has to say and I would love to hear any suggestions you have to offer. I have 3 more years ahead of me at Georgetown and I intend to change everyone's opinion of Hoya Blue before I leave this university. I invite any students out there who read this talkboard and others who dont but are truly loyal supporters of Georgetown to apply for the Hoya Blue board (especially people like JerseyHoya and FLHoya). I am hoping that my fellow board members will also listen to all of you but I think I read this board more than any of them so I will try to communicate your concerns to them. We must unite and bring back school spirit to the Georgetown student body. I am looking forward to turning Hoya Blue into a much more effective organization and making students proud of all of our sports teams, not just basketball. Of course basketball will always be the most important sport here but we need to change the way people view athletics in general at Georgetown. GU2007, expect an e-mail from me within the next couple of days. I am putting some ideas down on paper that will hopefully spur some off-line discussion.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Apr 19, 2004 17:38:40 GMT -5
Thanks Jersey, I look forward to hearing from you.
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angus
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Post by angus on Apr 19, 2004 17:49:08 GMT -5
This isn't the "Craig was a horrible leader and never deserved a damn thing that he got" thread. ________________________ Well, much to our surprise, Esh quickly landed another job and is succeeding beyond the fans' wildest expectations. Who would have thought that Esh could be such a dominant goaltender for the Philadelphia Flyers. Oh, Esche, not Esh? Never mind.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 20, 2004 17:00:15 GMT -5
Thanks Jersey, I look forward to hearing from you. I'm just putting some finishing touches on it and will have it to you later tonight.
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