hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 8, 2024 18:36:52 GMT -5
Not intended as such--let's make that clear. Being frustrated in the process is not being negative, it's just not what many expected a year ago. Well you suggested they brought Burks in to fill Ryan's seat on the bench - so to play a total of 56 minutes all season. Maybe you did not mean it to be negative, but it sure came across that way to me. Jordan Burks played a total of 143 minutes as a freshman for a Kentucky team that got its coach fired. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jordan-burks-1/gamelog/2024Ryan Mutombo as a freshman played a total of 319 minutes for a Georgetown team that got its coach fired. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/ryan-mutombo-1.htmlIt's not that outrageous of a comparison.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 8, 2024 18:40:35 GMT -5
Are you equating not getting minutes on a Kentucky NCAA tourney team with not getting minutes on a Patrick Ewing team? In any event, still not something you have to throw out there 20 minutes after the young man commits.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 8, 2024 18:49:15 GMT -5
I understand that maybe the expectations are higher, but can we really complain about a top 25 transfer and a top 25 freshman class....with 3 more spots to go that could only improve those rankings? Getting a center is obviously super important. I would feel much better if Sorber and Fielder are the backup 5 options. Im not as concerned about shooting. We've been told for a year now that Georgetown had a big-time NIL bag to throw at recruits this offseason. That was the "hope" that was sold to us as Cooley put up a 2-18 Big East record in his first campaign at Georgetown. Various sources have cited Georgetown as having a "top 5" NIL "Georgetown is expected to have an NIL budget of around $5 million this offseason. This would put them comfortably in the top 10 in the nation for NIL budgets among college basketball programs. It’s a really big number in this new NIL era of college athletics. Georgetown AD Lee Reed told donors last summer that the program had identified $3 million as the annual number for a high major college basketball program to be competitive in this era of college basketball. Georgetown’s roster this season, according to two sources, is believed to cost a little over $1 million in NIL. After Georgetown missed out on Hunter Dickinson and a couple other highly-touted transfers, Cooley decided to pool a majority of this year’s budget and push it to next year’s budget, when the roster would already have a couple of pieces (ideally) and be in better position to contend in Year 2. People around college basketball say that Georgetown has made it very well known in AAU and high school circles, as well as with other power brokers in college basketball, that they are ready to spend big this summer." hilltophoops.substack.com/p/georgetown-transfer-portal-nil-offseasonSo yeah, after hearing stuff like this from multiple sources, I think it is completely fair to expect better than what Cooley's done recruiting-wise. If you're spending top 5 money, you should get better than borderline top 25 results.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 8, 2024 18:49:55 GMT -5
I just don't get you at all. The one definitive statement you make here is that "there is no doubt: Cooley can outrecruit Ewing and JTIII in his sleep." How is that even remotely true. Even in dark times JTIII and Ewing recruited Jamorko, Yurtseven, Derrickson, Govan, Akinjo, MccLung, Aminu, etc. Cooley famously never recruited much to Providence - having almost no four star recruits in his 12 years there. If you had said "there is no doubt: Cooley can outcoach Ewing and JTIII in his sleep." then you would have been closer to something true. Truth is when you bring back a coach who goes 5-12 in the big east and loses his entire (very talented team) to the portal for 3 more years (including going 2-37 in the conference his last two years) it is a program destroyer. Unfortunately, because of the continued support of Degioia and so many on this board (you?) of Ewing, the damage has been done. Cooley was never a killer recruiter. I am so confused by your statement about his recruiting ability. The hope was that he would be better at recruiting with a bigger brand and more resources behind him. Hopefully he can get enough of his guys and get them aligned to have some success in the near term. It is pretty rich for some people (including you) on this board who supported Ewing for four years too long to start ripping on Cooley before year 2, especially about his recruiting which was never his strength. Thanks for the comments. I've managed to annoy people twice today, so let's see if I make the trifecta. The opinion, restated: " Ed Cooley can out-recruit Ewing and JTIII." To have a dialogue, one must ask the question: what does it mean to "recruit"?. It's more than just signing talent--it's a combination of salesman, evangelist and strategist who can build a team and get them to follow you going forward, whether that's in basketball, the armed services, or for a law firm. Ed Cooley has all three of these qualities and even his most ardent detractors at Federal Hill would admit that he's persuasive. He's also smart enough to know that he has job duties beyond recruiting and so he must count on assistants to do the heavy lifting in many cases. You don't have to sell a monorail to be a good coach - Nebraska's Tom Osborne was no Barry Switzer and he was eminently successful - but there's an art to it. For all his efforts, Patrick Ewing was not an elite recruiter, and many former NBA players-turned-coaches fit this bill. It's a grind. Ewing benefited from someone bringing back an assistant named Robert Kirby, who had a long list of recruiting contacts in the business and could thus get in front of talent on the transfer wire (Pickett, McClung, Yurtseven, LeBlanc, Bile, the brief run of Jalen Harris) that Ewing might not have been able to reach on his own. (To your point above, Govan was a JT III recruit, not Ewing.) That's not to say Ewing couldn't sell, but it was not something he had any experience in at the college level and thus he relied on Kirby through 2022 and later Kevin Nickelberry (Spears, Murray, Ezewiro) to bring in talent: some of which fit and some that did not. JT III was a better recruiter than Ewing but he also benefited from assistants. Yes, he inherited Bowman, Cook, Owens, Green, and Hibbert from Craig Esherick, but he assembled a group of recruiters (Mike Brennan, Kevin Broadus, David Cox, and the aforementioned Robert Kirby) to be competitive locally and nationally. Some of it is luck, too: when Otto Porter was being recruited, it didn't hurt that Kirby was a college teammate of Otto Sr. The core assistants left after 2012-13 and things soon trended downhill. JT III's decision not to recruit Josh Hart opened the local doors for Jay Wright to win a national championship with DC talent, and JT III could not shake the rap that his style of play wouldn't work anymore. Monumental Sports notwithstanding, JT III is only 58 and is still not in demand as a head coach or assistant. All that said, Cooley's job is tougher than Ewing or JT III because of where the Hoyas are today. JT III could sell the NBA pipeline and its Top 10 finishes and steer past the first round NCAA losses, while Cooley can't even sell that. There was no NIL or transfer portal to upend rosters. Ewing could sell his experience as a Hall of Famer to big men; oddly enough, Qudus Wahab was the only top big man that Ewing ever landed. Picking up Kenny Johnson as an assistant will bear results locally, but it's not there yet. If I'm being overly optimistic, that's fine, but I place Cooley alongside Shaka Smart and Dan Hurley as three Big East coaches that can uniquely sell their programs, even if each has a different case to sell. That's not to say Cooley is the third best coach, because that's subjective and names like Pitino, McDermott, Miller, et al. are also in the conversation. Finally, I support any and all Georgetown coaches, win or lose. This is not always popular, such as when a former poster claimed I worked for the Thompsons, or others asking why I wouldn't speak ill of Craig Esherick in the then-lean years of 19 wins in 2002 or 2003, or didn't pile on Ewing when there was plenty of others doing that. Coaches have my support. Two months ago, I wrote on the main site the following: "Unlike his predecessor, college basketball is Ed Cooley's job. He is not content to sit out his contract and be rich as you-know-what while his future earning opportunities deteriorate. No university hired Patrick Ewing after last season because, in part, bad coaching records become tough to shake. No one has hired John Thompson III, either. In fact, nine consecutive head coaches since 1949 have ended their college coaching careers at Georgetown; that is, they never coached at any school thereafter. Without the progress this program needs in 2024-25 and beyond, Ed Cooley will not stay around long enough to become the tenth. If he cannot win at Georgetown, he will win somewhere else." "After a decade of poor institutional decisions, rebuilding is no easy task, regardless of the coach. But there is precedent. While it becomes all but impossible to replicate the arc that defined John Thompson III's first three seasons at Georgetown from 2004 to 2007 (an NIT bid in season one, then the Sweet 16, then a Big East title and the Final Four), improvement can follow. For all his faults as a coach and administrator, even Ewing elevated the program from 15 to 19 wins in his second season before the revolving door of transfers took hold. But this is not the past. A poor first season, as this surely was, only accelerates the need for Cooley to show progress sooner, not later." The ability to support him becomes even more important going forward. Agree to disagree (again), I suppose.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 8, 2024 18:50:08 GMT -5
Are you equating not getting minutes on a Kentucky NCAA tourney team with not getting minutes on a Patrick Ewing team? In any event, still not something you have to throw out there 20 minutes after the young man commits. I didn't "throw it out there", I was just defending a reasonable comment from another poster. Just because it's not what you want to hear doesn't make it unreasonable and anti-Georgetown.
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guru
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Post by guru on May 8, 2024 19:12:46 GMT -5
Comparing the Calipari and Ewing exits is disingenuous even for you. If you actually think you’ve made a cogent point/argument here, you’re wrong.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 8, 2024 19:31:08 GMT -5
I agree. I do not think we can have a strategy that is transfer/NIL driven and expect to compete with the big boys. We don't have the rep or the money. We need to be more like Xavier or Creighton than Kentucky. That said, it's extremely hard to judge what Cooley will choose to do and where he will choose to spend when he has talent as opposed to coming off a 2-19 BE season. The situations are not analogous at all, and it would be a big mistake to try and force a strategy of cohesion and development on a team with not enough talent to develop. Furthermore, Rowan is the only player left that really has materially years of development in front of him. And while I am all for developing the freshmen class, we cannot afford not to improve in terms of recruiting and momentum. We won't keep who we have or get the next wave if we don't step up. Competition isn't a bad thing, and while Peavy is an upperclassman, both Mack, Williams and Burks are sophomores. (Keita would be a junior with Epps.) They, too, can be part of a developing team. When you look at it by class: Sr. - Peavy Jr. - Epps, (Transfer Center?) So. - Fielder, Williams, Burks, Mack Fr. - Sorber, McKenna, Mulready, Williams That's still a team where you are focused on development. It's also got a shot to be more than 8 deep. In my view it's not about Gtown's lack of a rep or money, it won't work because Cooley's style doesn't fit continuously changing teams. Cooley's strengths are connecting & motivating players, he's not an innovative or system driven type coach. I'm not a fan of the "lack of talent" excuse because it lets the staff off the hook most of the time. The team was terrible last year and limited depth wise without doubt but none of us will state(including Cooley) that they played anywhere near their potential so some of the blame for the poor season has to go to the staff. Older players who have experience playing for a coach can be a good resource for the new players joining the team, my hope wasn't just that Styles would play well but that he'd be a good mentor to DM, The Williams & Peavy too. Those are the perks that get lost when there's a constant shuffling of the roster.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on May 8, 2024 19:48:06 GMT -5
Are you equating not getting minutes on a Kentucky NCAA tourney team with not getting minutes on a Patrick Ewing team? In any event, still not something you have to throw out there 20 minutes after the young man commits. Totally agree! Let’s show our new arrivals all the love and respect that we would want if it were us!
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Post by professorhoya on May 8, 2024 20:12:14 GMT -5
Your Rowan Brumbaugh played 0 minutes his true freshman year/1st year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 8, 2024 20:35:37 GMT -5
Comparing the Calipari and Ewing exits is disingenuous even for you. If you actually think you’ve made a cogent point/argument here, you’re wrong. We don’t always see eye to eye but this is correct. But not surprising. That poster decided long ago that Georgetown under Cooley will be a failed program (and he especially despises Cooley for reasons I don’t understand but which predate his time at Georgetown) so he won’t be positive about anything. This is why he keeps posting the same things over and over again about NIL even though NIL expenditures have been way higher this off season than anybody expected, and the idea we have top 5 NIL at this point seems like a big stretch.
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on May 8, 2024 20:52:16 GMT -5
I understand that maybe the expectations are higher, but can we really complain about a top 25 transfer and a top 25 freshman class....with 3 more spots to go that could only improve those rankings? Getting a center is obviously super important. I would feel much better if Sorber and Fielder are the backup 5 options. Im not as concerned about shooting. We've been told for a year now that Georgetown had a big-time NIL bag to throw at recruits this offseason. That was the "hope" that was sold to us as Cooley put up a 2-18 Big East record in his first campaign at Georgetown. Various sources have cited Georgetown as having a "top 5" NIL "Georgetown is expected to have an NIL budget of around $5 million this offseason. This would put them comfortably in the top 10 in the nation for NIL budgets among college basketball programs. It’s a really big number in this new NIL era of college athletics. Georgetown AD Lee Reed told donors last summer that the program had identified $3 million as the annual number for a high major college basketball program to be competitive in this era of college basketball. Georgetown’s roster this season, according to two sources, is believed to cost a little over $1 million in NIL. After Georgetown missed out on Hunter Dickinson and a couple other highly-touted transfers, Cooley decided to pool a majority of this year’s budget and push it to next year’s budget, when the roster would already have a couple of pieces (ideally) and be in better position to contend in Year 2. People around college basketball say that Georgetown has made it very well known in AAU and high school circles, as well as with other power brokers in college basketball, that they are ready to spend big this summer." hilltophoops.substack.com/p/georgetown-transfer-portal-nil-offseasonSo yeah, after hearing stuff like this from multiple sources, I think it is completely fair to expect better than what Cooley's done recruiting-wise. If you're spending top 5 money, you should get better than borderline top 25 results. It’s not multiple independently verified multiple sources, though. It’s just the typical game of telephone by the pundits. Some student at Georgetown claims there’s “$4-5mm”. Get clicks, get clicks. Johnny Fanta, gawd love that Ohio boy, picks it up. Others run with it. Kind of like one narrative that’s rolled out when Hoyas are routinely getting their a$$ beaten the past 5 years. Splashy-ish hire, smooth-talking new coach has a bunch of money. Cute story? Yeah. Completely true? Doubtful. Possible that there’s some money? Yeah. Portal work “disappointing” for a program coming off 5 and whatever the past 3 years with a 5 year old practice facility that was aged (like all things Georgetown) the day it opened, playing home games in a cavernous, soulless arena? I’m surprised anyone wants to come, unless it’s just to stock a closet with free Jordans. I think Cooley can sell ice to individuals who live in northern climates, TBH.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 8, 2024 21:29:09 GMT -5
This is exactly my hope as well, get old with experience in the system & playing together.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 8, 2024 23:22:40 GMT -5
It’s not multiple independently verified multiple sources, though. It’s just the typical game of telephone by the pundits. Some student at Georgetown claims there’s “$4-5mm”. Get clicks, get clicks. Johnny Fanta, gawd love that Ohio boy, picks it up. Others run with it. Kind of like one narrative that’s rolled out when Hoyas are routinely getting their a$$ beaten the past 5 years. Splashy-ish hire, smooth-talking new coach has a bunch of money. Cute story? Yeah. Completely true? Doubtful. Possible that there’s some money? Yeah. Portal work “disappointing” for a program coming off 5 and whatever the past 3 years with a 5 year old practice facility that was aged (like all things Georgetown) the day it opened, playing home games in a cavernous, soulless arena? I’m surprised anyone wants to come, unless it’s just to stock a closet with free Jordans. I think Cooley can sell ice to individuals who live in northern climates, TBH. Throughout the years, there have been multiple articles posted here regarding how GU’s head coaching job is one of the most coveted positions in college basketball.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 8, 2024 23:25:18 GMT -5
Your Rowan Brumbaugh played 0 minutes his true freshman year/1st year. You mean his redshirt year?
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CaliHoya
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Post by CaliHoya on May 8, 2024 23:58:24 GMT -5
Met Coach Cooley at an event this week with a pretty nice Q&A. Lee Reed was there as well, who mentioned that he encouraged sharing info since there's a lot of misinformation around. Here's what Coach said:
- Last season was the toughest of Coach’s career - Recruiting is the "Wild West on steroids". There were stories of recruits coming to visits with an agent from LA. And players averaging 1ppg with big asks. - Recruits just care about NIL and not the degree at all in the current environment. - Cooley, unprompted, said we need a center - Still says his goal is to contend for a title in year 3 - Hoping to play a game on the west coast against UCLA, Stanford or Gonzaga - Trying to hire someone with international ties to help recruit abroad
I also will add that the staff and alums (who all had seemed to spend a lot of time with Cooley) really had high praise for Cooley.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 9, 2024 0:10:36 GMT -5
Met Coach Cooley at an event this week with a pretty nice Q&A. Lee Reed was there as well, who mentioned that he encouraged sharing info since there's a lot of misinformation around. Here's what Coach said: - Last season was the toughest of Coach’s career - Recruiting is the "Wild West on steroids". There were stories of recruits coming to visits with an agent from LA. And players averaging 1ppg with big asks. - Recruits just care about NIL and not the degree at all in the current environment. - Cooley, unprompted, said we need a center - Still says his goal is to contend for a title in year 3 - Hoping to play a game on the west coast against UCLA, Stanford or Gonzaga - Trying to hire someone with international ties to help recruit abroad I also will add that the staff and alums (who all had seemed to spend a lot of time with Cooley) really had high praise for Cooley. Thanks, Cali! Wonderful to read!
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on May 9, 2024 4:44:16 GMT -5
Are you equating not getting minutes on a Kentucky NCAA tourney team with not getting minutes on a Patrick Ewing team? In any event, still not something you have to throw out there 20 minutes after the young man commits. I didn't "throw it out there", I was just defending a reasonable comment from another poster. Just because it's not what you want to hear doesn't make it unreasonable and anti-Georgetown. Not only is it unreasonable, I'd say it is super-unreasonable. UK was a darkhorse FF team going into the tourney...GTown was a darkhorse 2nd rd maker of the BE tourney........Boya I truly believe that you will shoot down any level of excitement that this fanbase tries to conjure up.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on May 9, 2024 5:44:04 GMT -5
Met Coach Cooley at an event this week with a pretty nice Q&A. Lee Reed was there as well, who mentioned that he encouraged sharing info since there's a lot of misinformation around. Here's what Coach said: - Last season was the toughest of Coach’s career - Recruiting is the "Wild West on steroids". There were stories of recruits coming to visits with an agent from LA. And players averaging 1ppg with big asks. - Recruits just care about NIL and not the degree at all in the current environment. - Cooley, unprompted, said we need a center - Still says his goal is to contend for a title in year 3 - Hoping to play a game on the west coast against UCLA, Stanford or Gonzaga - Trying to hire someone with international ties to help recruit abroad I also will add that the staff and alums (who all had seemed to spend a lot of time with Cooley) really had high praise for Cooley. Contend for a title in year three, as in 2025-26? A BE title, right? Or is he talking about the big one? Because that would seem . . . a bit ambitious at this juncture.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on May 9, 2024 6:09:52 GMT -5
Well, all of his additions minus Peavy are players who will be upperclassmen in 2025-2026. And they are high ceiling guys. Regardless, he is building for the future and not the moment.
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on May 9, 2024 6:33:12 GMT -5
It’s not multiple independently verified multiple sources, though. It’s just the typical game of telephone by the pundits. Some student at Georgetown claims there’s “$4-5mm”. Get clicks, get clicks. Johnny Fanta, gawd love that Ohio boy, picks it up. Others run with it. Kind of like one narrative that’s rolled out when Hoyas are routinely getting their a$$ beaten the past 5 years. Splashy-ish hire, smooth-talking new coach has a bunch of money. Cute story? Yeah. Completely true? Doubtful. Possible that there’s some money? Yeah. Portal work “disappointing” for a program coming off 5 and whatever the past 3 years with a 5 year old practice facility that was aged (like all things Georgetown) the day it opened, playing home games in a cavernous, soulless arena? I’m surprised anyone wants to come, unless it’s just to stock a closet with free Jordans. I think Cooley can sell ice to individuals who live in northern climates, TBH. Throughout the years, there have been multiple articles posted here regarding how GU’s head coaching job is one of the most coveted positions in college basketball. Was commenting about NIL rumors …
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