jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 14, 2024 9:45:16 GMT -5
So I think the players most likely to be on the roster next year are...
McKenna, Sorber, Mulready, and Williams - have signed agreements to play next year
What do you do with?
Epps, Styles, Cook, Fielder, Brumbaugh
I think all of them are likely welcome back but perhaps not in the same role they had this year.
Do you offer them their updated NIL deal and tell them you're either on the bus or off the bus? Want to enter the portal? That's great, but we are moving on. Or do you let them test the market?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 14, 2024 9:53:27 GMT -5
So I think the players most likely to be on the roster next year are... McKenna, Sorber, Mulready, and Williams - have signed agreements to play next year What do you do with? Epps, Styles, Cook, Fielder, Brumbaugh I think all of them are likely welcome back but perhaps not in the same role they had this year. Do you offer them their updated NIL deal and tell them you're either on the bus or off the bus? Want to enter the portal? That's great, but we are moving on. Or do you let them test the market? I had a post edited by a moderator, who said you're not allowed to talk about not bringing a player back next year. So not sure if we'll be able to comment on this thread topic or if that censorship is only limited to certain posters. I also don't understand why we're not allowed to talk about the coach's salary, seems like a pretty pertinent topic when we're allowed to talk about NIL and other topics related to how much money is spent on the program.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Mar 14, 2024 9:55:10 GMT -5
So I think the players most likely to be on the roster next year are... McKenna, Sorber, Mulready, and Williams - have signed agreements to play next year What do you do with? Epps, Styles, Cook, Fielder, Brumbaugh I think all of them are likely welcome back but perhaps not in the same role they had this year. Do you offer them their updated NIL deal and tell them you're either on the bus or off the bus? Want to enter the portal? That's great, but we are moving on. Or do you let them test the market? hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/1053037/threadRumor has it that Rowan is looking elsewhere. I would really like for him to stay, but if he's not happy I wish him well. Cooley really needs to bring in talent on the floor and on his staff to make this project work out for him. If not, it's going to be ugly again next season.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 14, 2024 10:12:36 GMT -5
So I think the players most likely to be on the roster next year are... McKenna, Sorber, Mulready, and Williams - have signed agreements to play next year What do you do with? Epps, Styles, Cook, Fielder, Brumbaugh I think all of them are likely welcome back but perhaps not in the same role they had this year. Do you offer them their updated NIL deal and tell them you're either on the bus or off the bus? Want to enter the portal? That's great, but we are moving on. Or do you let them test the market? hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/1053037/threadRumor has it that Rowan is looking elsewhere. I would really like for him to stay, but if he's not happy I wish him well. Cooley really needs to bring in talent on the floor and on his staff to make this project work out for him. If not, it's going to be ugly again next season. I don't read that thread. It likely attracts posters and conversations I am not interested in. I like Rowan and his game a lot. It is not quite there to be the full-time PG for a winning major conference team. I would bring in a 1 year PG and hope he continues to develop. For marginal players (and I am not saying RB is one), this portal could be the end of their basketball career. Thinking there is more of a market than there is for your services is a killer. I have also heard rumors of some portal activity from someone and also (separately) that Rowan was not that guy.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 14, 2024 10:14:56 GMT -5
So I think the players most likely to be on the roster next year are... McKenna, Sorber, Mulready, and Williams - have signed agreements to play next year What do you do with? Epps, Styles, Cook, Fielder, Brumbaugh I think all of them are likely welcome back but perhaps not in the same role they had this year. Do you offer them their updated NIL deal and tell them you're either on the bus or off the bus? Want to enter the portal? That's great, but we are moving on. Or do you let them test the market? I had a post edited by a moderator, who said you're not allowed to talk about not bringing a player back next year. So not sure if we'll be able to comment on this thread topic or if that censorship is only limited to certain posters. I also don't understand why we're not allowed to talk about the coach's salary, seems like a pretty pertinent topic when we're allowed to talk about NIL and other topics related to how much money is spent on the program. I am not sure I am talking about who to bring back but rather what to do if they want to play a bit in the portal.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 14, 2024 10:24:20 GMT -5
With no hate or malice towards any of these guys intended, we should have 0 feelings of disappointment or questioning of the staff if anyone from a 9-23 team doesn't return. Quite frankly it will be more concerning if we have most of the same core starting/playing big minutes. Only one I would love to stick around is Fielder as I think he has some serious upside as a stretch 4 for us.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2024 10:30:58 GMT -5
With no hate or malice towards any of these guys intended, we should have 0 feelings of disappointment or questioning of the staff if anyone from a 9-23 team doesn't return. Quite frankly it will be more concerning if we have most of the same core starting/playing big minutes. Only one I would love to stick around is Fielder as I think he has some serious upside as a stretch 4 for us. Questions of the staff re: player evaluation, roster construction and player development? Yes. Questioning of staff re: player retention of this 9-23 team? No.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 14, 2024 10:33:31 GMT -5
With no hate or malice towards any of these guys intended, we should have 0 feelings of disappointment or questioning of the staff if anyone from a 9-23 team doesn't return. Quite frankly it will be more concerning if we have most of the same core starting/playing big minutes. Only one I would love to stick around is Fielder as I think he has some serious upside as a stretch 4 for us. Questions of the staff re: player evaluation, roster construction and player development? Yes. Questioning of staff re: player retention of this 9-23 team? No. Totally fair; I don't think anyone would argue they did a good job of that this past year. Reserving judgement on any of it until we see how this offseason/next season plays out.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 14, 2024 10:36:02 GMT -5
I don't think you let anyone "test the market." If any want to enter the portal, best of luck, but we're not holding a spot for you. Nobody in the current group is irreplaceable. I think all 5 should be welcomed back, but nobody's position/role/minutes should be protected. If we can upgrade any position via the portal, we have to do so. That's just how it goes when you finish 2-18, some things need to change and that may mean some hurt feelings.
My priority order for retention would be:
1. Fielder-maybe counter-intuitive since he received the least PT of the 5, but I think he has the highest ceiling and looked good down the stretch. 6'10 guys who shoot better than 40% from 3 have a lot of value. He's going to develop, and I'd like it to be here.
2. Styles-he showed a lot at times despite also having some forgettable games. But of the 5 hes the one I feel most certain could be a starter on a good team. Hopefully McKenna and Williams push him a little and he builds on the jump he made this year.
3. Brumbaugh- he was one of the most productive freshmen in the conference and he has 3 more years of eligibility. I don't see him being ready to be a starter on a good team next year, but would like to hang onto him to see if he'll develop as a backup next year and maybe be ready to lead the team as a RS junior. The outline of a very good upperclassman lead guard is there, he just needs to grow into it.
4. Cook- easy player to root for, but his defensive shortcomings are the root of our historically bad defense, IMHO. And he can't do much on offense unless he's right at the rim. Basically he's a rebound/hustle player and that's it. I can live with that as a 9th man, but is that a role he'll be content with? If he's a starter again next year I think it's trouble. I'd rather see Fielder and Sorber get the minutes along with whatever transfer big we're able to land.
5. Epps- again counter-intuitive because of his counting stats, but I just don't believe you win with tweener guards who dominate the ball, are inefficient shooters, and who don't excel in other areas (defense, point guard responsibilities, etc.). Like Cook I would welcome him back in a much smaller role, but something tells me he may not be happy going from this year where he had carte blanche to being a 6th man or something as a junior. But I think that's his destiny--either a microwave 6th man on a decent or better team, or a hot and cold ball dominator on a bad one. And if he's going to be the latter, I don't want it to be here (again).
In a perfect world, all of these guys are back and they embrace their new roles when we add new and better players via portal. In the real world, that doesn't feel too likely. Hopefully the NIL budget is spread so that players with bright futures can be retained and players who aren't likely to be winners (even if they are strong in one or two areas) are de-prioritized and either embrace a new role or find a new situation.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2024 10:37:05 GMT -5
I had a post edited by a moderator, who said you're not allowed to talk about not bringing a player back next year. So not sure if we'll be able to comment on this thread topic or if that censorship is only limited to certain posters. I also don't understand why we're not allowed to talk about the coach's salary, seems like a pretty pertinent topic when we're allowed to talk about NIL and other topics related to how much money is spent on the program. I am not sure I am talking about who to bring back but rather what to do if they want to play a bit in the portal. During his first days on the job, Cooley mentioned that he wanted players who wanted to be here, and he didn't retain any players who explored the portal. We'll see if that translates to re-recruiting any of the players he recruited who enter the portal.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 14, 2024 10:39:19 GMT -5
You make good points, but Epps was the only one who could create his own shot which may be the rarest skill set of all. Imagine last night without Epps. We would have lost by 50.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 14, 2024 10:40:42 GMT -5
I am not sure I am talking about who to bring back but rather what to do if they want to play a bit in the portal. During his first days on the job, Cooley mentioned that he wanted players who wanted to be here, and he didn't retain any players who explored the portal. We'll see if that translates to re-recruiting any of the players he recruited who enter the portal. I think the only thing different is that there is a stronger NIL component now. Players will want to know how we value them in cash for the next season.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2024 10:45:59 GMT -5
During his first days on the job, Cooley mentioned that he wanted players who wanted to be here, and he didn't retain any players who explored the portal. We'll see if that translates to re-recruiting any of the players he recruited who enter the portal. I think the only thing different is that there is a stronger NIL component now. Players will want to know how we value them in cash for the next season. Yes, imagine telling a player that next year he will get less NIL$. Yikes! Also, for example, last year Rowan mentioned that NIL$ wasn't a consideration for him to come here. Has that changed? Will he look for offers? No time to waste. These conversations need to happen very soon so that the staff knows how the roster is shaping up and how much NIL$ is available for new recruits. The silver lining is that we start early vs. Tournament teams.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 14, 2024 11:03:24 GMT -5
I just want some continuity. I get that guys will come & go but cheering on a brand new group of guys every year is getting old. I like Fielder & Brumbaugh for growth and I think Epps, Styles & Cook can all excel in different roles. I don't think anyone can look at this year and think that they don't need to greatly improve. If any of these kids is satisfied, they probably aren't the right kids.
The only other thing I could see is if a kid just didn't like the system or school after having been in it for a year or if they felt they weren't up to the level of competition and need to transfer down (I don't know anybody playing competitive sports who would view things this way but you never know). Looking forward to some good news hopefully in the weeks and months ahead.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 14, 2024 11:07:56 GMT -5
You make good points, but Epps was the only one who could create his own shot which may be the rarest skill set of all. Imagine last night without Epps. We would have lost by 50. I hear this logic, but I think the answer is to find a better SG--maybe one who is not going to have as many 30 point nights, but who is more likely to be a winner. We flirted with Cam Spencer last year but lost out, would love to find a similar player this year and seal the deal this time. Easier said than done I know. You look at some of the local guys who might be in the portal--Mintz, Dug, Mack... none of them pair nicely with Epps, because it's hard to find a player thats a good compliment to a ball dominant tweener but who is also impactful enough to help lift this team out of the doldrums. To me, the move isn't to try to find players who slot in nicely with Epps, because the odds that you find that complimentary fit AND the talent level is high enough are pretty slim. Instead, find the best player you can and build from there, and if Epps doesn't slot in nicely then it is he who would need to adapt or move on. He's not good enough to be the primary guy on a good team, and his play style doesn't lend itself to being anything other than the primary guy. I don't mean to derail the topic with an Epps debate, though. For me, I'm just not sold on him being a winner the way he plays. I think staff may feel differently though, so hopefully I'm wrong.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 14, 2024 11:22:13 GMT -5
Brando mentioned that Cooley was surprised that portal kids were looking for established winners. That seemed like a plant of sorts based on their dinner from the night before. Maybe they're thinking this is more of a rebuild then they thought. If so, it makes it even more important to retain and grow the young guys we got last cycle.
Winning will cure a lot of things. We obviously need to overpay a few kids and sell them on the vision for 24/25. Yes I feel like the recruiting is miles better but 2 of those 5 had committed to Providence first (fielder, mulready). I'm depressed.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 14, 2024 11:28:51 GMT -5
I am working on retaining my lunch…
The light the end of the tunnel always seems to be an onrushing train…
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 14, 2024 11:44:51 GMT -5
I don't think you let anyone "test the market." If any want to enter the portal, best of luck, but we're not holding a spot for you. Nobody in the current group is irreplaceable. I think all 5 should be welcomed back, but nobody's position/role/minutes should be protected. If we can upgrade any position via the portal, we have to do so. That's just how it goes when you finish 2-18, some things need to change and that may mean some hurt feelings. My priority order for retention would be: 1. Fielder-maybe counter-intuitive since he received the least PT of the 5, but I think he has the highest ceiling and looked good down the stretch. 6'10 guys who shoot better than 40% from 3 have a lot of value. He's going to develop, and I'd like it to be here. 2. Styles-he showed a lot at times despite also having some forgettable games. But of the 5 hes the one I feel most certain could be a starter on a good team. Hopefully McKenna and Williams push him a little and he builds on the jump he made this year. 3. Brumbaugh- he was one of the most productive freshmen in the conference and he has 3 more years of eligibility. I don't see him being ready to be a starter on a good team next year, but would like to hang onto him to see if he'll develop as a backup next year and maybe be ready to lead the team as a RS junior. The outline of a very good upperclassman lead guard is there, he just needs to grow into it. 4. Cook- easy player to root for, but his defensive shortcomings are the root of our historically bad defense, IMHO. And he can't do much on offense unless he's right at the rim. Basically he's a rebound/hustle player and that's it. I can live with that as a 9th man, but is that a role he'll be content with? If he's a starter again next year I think it's trouble. I'd rather see Fielder and Sorber get the minutes along with whatever transfer big we're able to land. 5. Epps- again counter-intuitive because of his counting stats, but I just don't believe you win with tweener guards who dominate the ball, are inefficient shooters, and who don't excel in other areas (defense, point guard responsibilities, etc.). Like Cook I would welcome him back in a much smaller role, but something tells me he may not be happy going from this year where he had carte blanche to being a 6th man or something as a junior. But I think that's his destiny--either a microwave 6th man on a decent or better team, or a hot and cold ball dominator on a bad one. And if he's going to be the latter, I don't want it to be here (again). In a perfect world, all of these guys are back and they embrace their new roles when we add new and better players via portal. In the real world, that doesn't feel too likely. Hopefully the NIL budget is spread so that players with bright futures can be retained and players who aren't likely to be winners (even if they are strong in one or two areas) are de-prioritized and either embrace a new role or find a new situation. I completely agree with this. Better guard play is a must.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 14, 2024 11:53:28 GMT -5
I dont disagree on most RBHoya - I just think the reality is that Epps will be back, and be a starter, so we have to build in that regard. To me, Cooleys job with Epps is showing him that an efficient 15 to 20 on a better team is just as valuable as 30 on a dogsh*t team. I've heard Epps is a willing learner and is coachable. A lot of this year Epps was out of necessity. Less minutes. Less of an offensive burden. And having him not be #1,2 and 3 on a scouting report should do wonders for his development.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 14, 2024 11:59:51 GMT -5
I will say this on Rowan. I hope he stays and accepts a lesser role, but I understand why in today's world that's unlikely. Having said that, it's been evident since Day 1 that Cooley didn't trust Rowan as his PG. Cooley made subtle comments at presser throughout year about needing to trust his PG. About how a PG should be an extension of the coach and a leader. Then he'd mention how Rowan needs to be more vocal. The shorter leash he had for Rowan after mistakes.
That doesn't mean a player can't grow and earn that trust - but we're in need to turn around the ship immediately mode after the last decade and the resources invested, and it feels like a relationship breakup that is about "bad timing". Cooley can't afford to be patient and Rowan wants to play more not less.
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