thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by thedragon on Feb 15, 2024 22:30:09 GMT -5
I think the portal wish list for the frontcourt is pretty straight forward. I'd like to see us invest our NIL money in the best center we can land. The guy from Yale might be a fit, but there will be many options 6 weeks from now if that doesn't pan out. I'd start Cook at 4 and the transfer at 5, and I'd have Sorber start the season backing up both and playing ~25 minutes a game. I would try to talk Fielder into coming back for another year to round out the remaining minutes with potential to play more if we have injuries or foul trouble, and with assurances that his role would expand as a junior when Cook graduates. If he's not feeling that I'd understand, and we'd need to pursue one last big in the portal--not somebody who would command any significant NIL, and someone who would be content with occasional minutes (10th man in a 9 man rotation). A graduate transfer from the patriot league or the CAA, something like that.... In some match ups it might be beneficial for us to go smaller and play someone like McKenna or Williams down a position at the 4. Not something we'd do regularly, but it's an option in a pinch. On the wing, I don't think we need to do anything. Styles is good enough to be a starter on a winning team IMHO, and I'd like to see what McKenna and Williams can do backing him up. If Wayne wants to stay one last year and graduate a Hoya and try to push for minutes he has earned that. I don't think we should pursue wings in the portal unless there is some all-conference level stud who really wants to play for us, maybe then you make an exception and make it work, but otherwise we're ok there. Backcourt is the hardest. Many seem to think that Epps is the linchpin to build around, I personally am not so sure. Volume shooting tweener who creates as many issues as he solves. If he is in the right frame of mind, great, let us keep him in the fold. But I think we should be pursuing the best point guards AND shooting guards we can find, and not worrying too much about how someone fits next to Epps. It'll be hard enough to find an elite guard to come here, we shouldn't be expecting them to cover for Epps's shortcomings too. Whoever the best guard transfers we can get are, we should take. If it's someone who doesn't fit nicely next to Epps, then maybe Epps slides to 6th man and we give more minutes to Mulready, Brumbaugh or another incoming transfer who is a better fit next to that lead guard. Or if Epps is not wild about that, his NIL is reinvested elsewhere. Not trying to chase the kid off by any means, a little continuity would be nice. But we badly need a talent infusion in the backcourt and expecting a stud guard who is also a perfect fit with the tweener we already have may be too much to ask for. I'd rather take the talent and shrink Epps's role if need be than to take some B- recruit just because he's good at some of the things Epps isn't. I personally wouldn't want Cook playing the 4. To me, he's the prototypical 15 minute a game backup 5. Outphysicals the opposing teams back up 5 and can play bigger minutes in a foul trouble pinch without totally falling off a cliff. Free throw shooting gets minimized as he's not playing crucial minutes. Brings a seasoned vet to the 2nd unit. Whether he'd be content with that role I don't know. And while I don't disagree at all with your Epps take, I just don't think it's rooted in reality. Cooley wants some continuity and Epps being in next years starting lineup feels like probably the safest bet on the whole roster. |
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Feb 15, 2024 22:33:55 GMT -5
Why would Cook sign up for that? He’s arguably our best player, easily our most consistent. NIL is a two-way street. I highly doubt Cook will want to return if his role is reduced. If we go winless the rest of the way, then I don’t think there’s a NIL portal market for any of the players on the team. Primo. Murray. Carey. Wahab. Akok. Come on. Cooks going to average a near double double in the Big East and you don't think there would be a portal market for him? We've jumped the shark. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 15, 2024 22:40:29 GMT -5
If we go winless the rest of the way, then I don’t think there’s a NIL portal market for any of the players on the team. Primo. Murray. Carey. Wahab. Akok. Come on. Cooks going to average a near double double in the Big East and you don't think there would be a portal market for him? We've jumped the shark. Do you know how much they are getting paid at their new stop vs what they were paid at GU last year? Besides, those players wanted to get away from GU as fast as possible or were not playing for Cooley (i.e., Akok and Cooley didn’t see eye to eye). Remember Cooley’s “I want players who want to be here” comment in March? Sure, there’s a market for players who are willing to take less NIL$ than what they get now, but no one is paying more for players from a horrible team. If the team goes winless the rest of the way, then Cook will not make more NIL$ somewhere else than at GU and I don’t think Cooley will push him out. |
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Post by raleighfriar on Feb 16, 2024 7:29:21 GMT -5
Primo. Murray. Carey. Wahab. Akok. Come on. Cooks going to average a near double double in the Big East and you don't think there would be a portal market for him? We've jumped the shark. Do you know how much they are getting paid at their new stop vs what they were paid at GU last year? Besides, those players wanted to get away from GU as fast as possible or were not playing for Cooley (i.e., Akok and Cooley didn’t see eye to eye). Remember Cooley’s “I want players who want to be here” comment in March? Sure, there’s a market for players who are willing to take less NIL$ than what they get now, but no one is paying more for players from a horrible team. If the team goes winless the rest of the way, then Cook will not make more NIL$ somewhere else than at GU and I don’t think Cooley will push him out. Cook may not start next season, but if Ed runs him off, then he’s completely lost his mind. Supreme & Rowan are two of the hardest playing dudes y’all have. Can’t imagine Ed wouldn’t want that kind of heart on his team |
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Feb 16, 2024 7:52:01 GMT -5
Do you know how much they are getting paid at their new stop vs what they were paid at GU last year? Besides, those players wanted to get away from GU as fast as possible or were not playing for Cooley (i.e., Akok and Cooley didn’t see eye to eye). Remember Cooley’s “I want players who want to be here” comment in March? Sure, there’s a market for players who are willing to take less NIL$ than what they get now, but no one is paying more for players from a horrible team. If the team goes winless the rest of the way, then Cook will not make more NIL$ somewhere else than at GU and I don’t think Cooley will push him out. Cook may not start next season, but if Ed runs him off, then he’s completely lost his mind. Supreme & Rowan are two of the hardest playing dudes y’all have. Can’t imagine Ed wouldn’t want that kind of heart on his team I’m a big believer in “culture” and recruiting locally, as Ed says (and I believe him) he is too. I agree completely on both guys. They may choose to leave but Ed really needs to try to keep them both. If he doesn’t/can’t, it will be a very very bad sign… |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 16, 2024 7:56:37 GMT -5
Do you know how much they are getting paid at their new stop vs what they were paid at GU last year? Besides, those players wanted to get away from GU as fast as possible or were not playing for Cooley (i.e., Akok and Cooley didn’t see eye to eye). Remember Cooley’s “I want players who want to be here” comment in March? Sure, there’s a market for players who are willing to take less NIL$ than what they get now, but no one is paying more for players from a horrible team. If the team goes winless the rest of the way, then Cook will not make more NIL$ somewhere else than at GU and I don’t think Cooley will push him out. Cook may not start next season, but if Ed runs him off, then he’s completely lost his mind. Supreme & Rowan are two of the hardest playing dudes y’all have. Can’t imagine Ed wouldn’t want that kind of heart on his team I agree that he should be back. From the interviews, Cook likes it here and he fits what Cooley looks for in a player according to his staples. IIRC, in his intro press conference, Rowan said he wasn’t looking for a NIL$ deal. He just wanted to be a Hoya. Hopefully that hasn’t changed. |
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Feb 16, 2024 8:12:52 GMT -5
Then we are agreed. The traffic in transfers will be permitted, but controlled, and Supreme Cook will give us time at the 4 & the 5, and there will be the peace.
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hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyajmw on Feb 16, 2024 8:15:09 GMT -5
Then we are agreed. The traffic in transfers will be permitted, but controlled, and Supreme Cook will give us time at the 4 & the 5, and there will be the peace. I see and appreciate what you did there… You should change your handle to Don Barzini…😀 |
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 16, 2024 10:11:27 GMT -5
Then we are agreed. The traffic in transfers will be permitted, but controlled, and Supreme Cook will give us time at the 4 & the 5, and there will be the peace. This made me laugh. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 16, 2024 10:29:58 GMT -5
I personally wouldn't want Cook playing the 4. To me, he's the prototypical 15 minute a game backup 5. Outphysicals the opposing teams back up 5 and can play bigger minutes in a foul trouble pinch without totally falling off a cliff. Free throw shooting gets minimized as he's not playing crucial minutes. Brings a seasoned vet to the 2nd unit. Whether he'd be content with that role I don't know. And while I don't disagree at all with your Epps take, I just don't think it's rooted in reality. Cooley wants some continuity and Epps being in next years starting lineup feels like probably the safest bet on the whole roster. Re: Cook, if Sorber turns out to be what we all hope, that may well be how it goes. Especially as Sorber acclimates over the course of the season, totally possible that he is the superior player and he moves into a 30mpg starting role next to our transfer big and Cook backs up both as a high motor big off the bench (which is a role he's suited for). I'm not inclined to split hairs on the 4/5 distinction, he's listed as a forward and he doesn't have the defensive presence you might want from a center, I think he can probably float between the two positions especially if we are playing a standard 8-9 man rotation. About the inevitability of Epps, you may be right. I can appreciate the desire for continuity and if Epps has the right frame of mind he's an asset to the team. I just don't think he's good enough to build a team around, or rather, I don't see a team that's built around him being good enough. I've seen a lot of sentiment along the lines of "We can't take Dug McDaniel, because McDaniel and Epps is too small and would never work" or "We can't take Malik Mack, a Mack/Epps backcourt wouldn't be big enough" and I just don't think that's the right way to look at it. If those guys are open to coming home and playing for Georgetown and we can make the NIL work we should, because I think they're likely both better than Epps. It's not their fault that our 2 guard is small and not a great defender. I think I'd rather get a high level point guard like McDaniel or Mack and start them next to Mulready if necessary and let Brumbaugh and Epps come in off the bench than to get some mediocre transfer point guard who doesn't actually make us better but at least he's 6'4 and helps us feel better about our back court being tiny (I'm imagining a Jonathan Mulmore or Jalen Harris type). Of course if you can get a 6'4 point guard who is a terrific talent, that's the best case! But it feels like the odds of somebody checking all 3 boxes--high level talent, big enough to be a good fit next to Epps, and wants to play at Georgetown--are not great. So for me, the "high level talent" part needs to take precedent over "good fit with the current guys", given that I don't think the current guys are good enough to be centerpieces on a team that's competing for the top of the Big East. |
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Post by bearsandbulls on Feb 16, 2024 11:13:05 GMT -5
I think the portal wish list for the frontcourt is pretty straight forward. I'd like to see us invest our NIL money in the best center we can land. The guy from Yale might be a fit, but there will be many options 6 weeks from now if that doesn't pan out. I'd start Cook at 4 and the transfer at 5, and I'd have Sorber start the season backing up both and playing ~25 minutes a game. I would try to talk Fielder into coming back for another year to round out the remaining minutes with potential to play more if we have injuries or foul trouble, and with assurances that his role would expand as a junior when Cook graduates. If he's not feeling that I'd understand, and we'd need to pursue one last big in the portal--not somebody who would command any significant NIL, and someone who would be content with occasional minutes (10th man in a 9 man rotation). A graduate transfer from the patriot league or the CAA, something like that.... In some match ups it might be beneficial for us to go smaller and play someone like McKenna or Williams down a position at the 4. Not something we'd do regularly, but it's an option in a pinch. On the wing, I don't think we need to do anything. Styles is good enough to be a starter on a winning team IMHO, and I'd like to see what McKenna and Williams can do backing him up. If Wayne wants to stay one last year and graduate a Hoya and try to push for minutes he has earned that. I don't think we should pursue wings in the portal unless there is some all-conference level stud who really wants to play for us, maybe then you make an exception and make it work, but otherwise we're ok there. Backcourt is the hardest. Many seem to think that Epps is the linchpin to build around, I personally am not so sure. Volume shooting tweener who creates as many issues as he solves. If he is in the right frame of mind, great, let us keep him in the fold. But I think we should be pursuing the best point guards AND shooting guards we can find, and not worrying too much about how someone fits next to Epps. It'll be hard enough to find an elite guard to come here, we shouldn't be expecting them to cover for Epps's shortcomings too. Whoever the best guard transfers we can get are, we should take. If it's someone who doesn't fit nicely next to Epps, then maybe Epps slides to 6th man and we give more minutes to Mulready, Brumbaugh or another incoming transfer who is a better fit next to that lead guard. Or if Epps is not wild about that, his NIL is reinvested elsewhere. Not trying to chase the kid off by any means, a little continuity would be nice. But we badly need a talent infusion in the backcourt and expecting a stud guard who is also a perfect fit with the tweener we already have may be too much to ask for. I'd rather take the talent and shrink Epps's role if need be than to take some B- recruit just because he's good at some of the things Epps isn't. I personally wouldn't want Cook playing the 4. To me, he's the prototypical 15 minute a game backup 5. Outphysicals the opposing teams back up 5 and can play bigger minutes in a foul trouble pinch without totally falling off a cliff. Free throw shooting gets minimized as he's not playing crucial minutes. Brings a seasoned vet to the 2nd unit. Whether he'd be content with that role I don't know. And while I don't disagree at all with your Epps take, I just don't think it's rooted in reality. Cooley wants some continuity and Epps being in next years starting lineup feels like probably the safest bet on the whole roster. No bad on Epps but I think this team needs Styles to "want to" step up and be the man, and he and Epps reverse roles. Epps is a good scorer, but he is asked to do too much and winds up doing less (suspect fatigue). Styles is a very good "go to" player but just seems like he doesn't want that role. Agreed we need a very good PG for next year. |
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Post by practice on Feb 16, 2024 11:30:35 GMT -5
If Sorber can pass and shoot then he and Cook can play on the court at the same time. The game at all levels rewards big mobile guys who can shoot and defend the 3. Cook is not that ... but maybe Sorber (and Fielder) can be. Priority #1 should be an experienced PG and every other priority should be loading up on any/all BE caliber starters.
I watch this season and I think most of our roster would not start -- and maybe not play -- on most BE teams. I can't believe that Epps doesn't have some sort of injury -- he gets no lift on his shot and until the Creighton game was unwilling to use his floater for the past month. Cook has effort and grit and is learning to be an offensive threat in real time. Styles was a find ... but he's usually only good for one half of a game ... and the rest of the team is either not ready nor not talented enough to play BE minutes.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 16, 2024 14:05:41 GMT -5
The lowering of expectations for Cooley during portal season has begun... "Finally, a word on the longer-term future. I know Hoya fans are anxiously awaiting transfer portal SZN and are counting the days until we can throw bags of cash at big-name transfers. I am definitely excited for that, too! But I think we (Cooley) need to be cautious in the portal. I think there are fewer guys who are poised to really help a team, particularly one like Georgetown than we would think. To me, the lesson of the portal so far has been that you should target guys who know how to play, have proven it and are not just simply looking for more opportunity. There are the occasional guys like Dontrez who are just squeezed out of playing time, but that is a needle in the haystack. I want guys who have shown they have more than just offensive upside. Please, please, please don’t just go after the best scoring. Yes, I am talking about guys in Michigan and Syracuse. I would steer well clear of those types of players." www.casualhoya.com/2024/2/16/24074974/hoyas-progress-reports-final-7-games-georgetown-cooley-epps-styles-cook-heath-brumbaugh-fielderOverall a decent article, though. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 16, 2024 15:15:24 GMT -5
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 16, 2024 15:45:33 GMT -5
I personally wouldn't want Cook playing the 4. To me, he's the prototypical 15 minute a game backup 5. Outphysicals the opposing teams back up 5 and can play bigger minutes in a foul trouble pinch without totally falling off a cliff. Free throw shooting gets minimized as he's not playing crucial minutes. Brings a seasoned vet to the 2nd unit. Whether he'd be content with that role I don't know. And while I don't disagree at all with your Epps take, I just don't think it's rooted in reality. Cooley wants some continuity and Epps being in next years starting lineup feels like probably the safest bet on the whole roster. No bad on Epps but I think this team needs Styles to "want to" step up and be the man, and he and Epps reverse roles. Epps is a good scorer, but he is asked to do too much and winds up doing less (suspect fatigue). Styles is a very good "go to" player but just seems like he doesn't want that role. Agreed we need a very good PG for next year. Completely agree. Stylez is the only true body-ready difference-maker on the team. Everyone else is either too young (Brum and Fielder) or just a role player, though I think Cook gets a bad rap because he's trying to go it alone down there. To me Stylez has a much higher ceiling than Epps or anyone else on the team. The fact that he didn't mature into the second team All BE level guy that he could/should be is to me one of the biggest disappointments of the season. |
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 16, 2024 20:20:31 GMT -5
No bad on Epps but I think this team needs Styles to "want to" step up and be the man, and he and Epps reverse roles. Epps is a good scorer, but he is asked to do too much and winds up doing less (suspect fatigue). Styles is a very good "go to" player but just seems like he doesn't want that role. Agreed we need a very good PG for next year. Completely agree. Stylez is the only true body-ready difference-maker on the team. Everyone else is either too young (Brum and Fielder) or just a role player, though I think Cook gets a bad rap because he's trying to go it alone down there. To me Stylez has a much higher ceiling than Epps or anyone else on the team. The fact that he didn't mature into the second team All BE level guy that he could/should be is to me one of the biggest disappointments of the season. Sorry, I think this is really expecting too much from Styles. Remember, this is a kid that couldn't even crack the rotation at UNC. While he does tend to disappear often, I think he's far exceeded expectations. Along with Cook, but no one else. |
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Post by hsaxon on Feb 16, 2024 23:05:42 GMT -5
Do you know how much they are getting paid at their new stop vs what they were paid at GU last year? Besides, those players wanted to get away from GU as fast as possible or were not playing for Cooley (i.e., Akok and Cooley didn’t see eye to eye). Remember Cooley’s “I want players who want to be here” comment in March? Sure, there’s a market for players who are willing to take less NIL$ than what they get now, but no one is paying more for players from a horrible team. If the team goes winless the rest of the way, then Cook will not make more NIL$ somewhere else than at GU and I don’t think Cooley will push him out. Cook may not start next season, but if Ed runs him off, then he’s completely lost his mind. Supreme & Rowan are two of the hardest playing dudes y’all have. Can’t imagine Ed wouldn’t want that kind of heart on his team Ed cannot run Cook off. If he does, he in incompetent. |
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,006
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Post by dense on Feb 17, 2024 5:04:49 GMT -5
Do you know how much they are getting paid at their new stop vs what they were paid at GU last year? Besides, those players wanted to get away from GU as fast as possible or were not playing for Cooley (i.e., Akok and Cooley didn’t see eye to eye). Remember Cooley’s “I want players who want to be here” comment in March? Sure, there’s a market for players who are willing to take less NIL$ than what they get now, but no one is paying more for players from a horrible team. If the team goes winless the rest of the way, then Cook will not make more NIL$ somewhere else than at GU and I don’t think Cooley will push him out. Cook may not start next season, but if Ed runs him off, then he’s completely lost his mind. Supreme & Rowan are two of the hardest playing dudes y’all have. Can’t imagine Ed wouldn’t want that kind of heart on his team I agree. I don't want to run Cook off but it so apparent he is a backup at this level not a 30 mins a night guy. 15-17 at best. |
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Feb 17, 2024 5:07:38 GMT -5
The lowering of expectations for Cooley during portal season has begun... "Finally, a word on the longer-term future. I know Hoya fans are anxiously awaiting transfer portal SZN and are counting the days until we can throw bags of cash at big-name transfers. I am definitely excited for that, too! But I think we (Cooley) need to be cautious in the portal. I think there are fewer guys who are poised to really help a team, particularly one like Georgetown than we would think. To me, the lesson of the portal so far has been that you should target guys who know how to play, have proven it and are not just simply looking for more opportunity. There are the occasional guys like Dontrez who are just squeezed out of playing time, but that is a needle in the haystack. I want guys who have shown they have more than just offensive upside. Please, please, please don’t just go after the best scoring. Yes, I am talking about guys in Michigan and Syracuse. I would steer well clear of those types of players." www.casualhoya.com/2024/2/16/24074974/hoyas-progress-reports-final-7-games-georgetown-cooley-epps-styles-cook-heath-brumbaugh-fielderOverall a decent article, though. I agree. I want fits not just names. |
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Feb 17, 2024 21:54:21 GMT -5
Danny Wolf must have been reading his HoyaTalk press clippings.
He's laying a real egg tonight. 0-8 from the field, 0pts late at Princeton. Team is down 8 at the under 4.
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