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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 11, 2023 17:45:13 GMT -5
Here is a supplement to my post. These are our defensive rebounds by zone:
At the Rim: 54 DRB chances, 28 rebounds (9th percentile nationally-horrible) In the Paint: 53 DRB chances, 26 rebounds (1st percentile nationally-literally cannot get worse) Mid Range 2's: 65 DRB chances, 50 rebounds (68th percentile-not bad at all) Corner 3's: 24 chances, 20 rebounds (92nd percentile--really good surprisingly) Other Threes: 101 chances, 70 rebounds (31st percentile)
The proof is really there in the stats. We are getting utterly destroyed at the rim and in the paint at rebounding. This is largely why our defense stinks. While Cook is efficient on offense, he's killing us on the boards. While Fielder isn't perfect by any stretch, he's been rebounding better. And it makes you wonder what Mutombo would do.
Cook simply needs to play better, though. I think many times he's all over the place looking for blocks, and then nobody blocks out for a rebound, and nobody gets it. This needs to change. I really hope Cooley and his staff are aware of how bad this situation is (I am sure they do).
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 11, 2023 17:49:36 GMT -5
Here is a supplement to my post. These are our defensive rebounds by zone: At the Rim: 54 DRB chances, 28 rebounds (9th percentile nationally-horrible) In the Paint: 53 DRB chances, 26 rebounds (1st percentile nationally-literally cannot get worse) Mid Range 2's: 65 DRB chances, 50 rebounds (68th percentile-not bad at all) Corner 3's: 24 chances, 20 rebounds (92nd percentile--really good surprisingly) Other Threes: 101 chances, 70 rebounds (31st percentile) The proof is really there in the stats. We are getting utterly destroyed at the rim and in the paint at rebounding. This is largely why our defense stinks. While Cook is efficient on offense, he's killing us on the boards. While Fielder isn't perfect by any stretch, he's been rebounding better. And it makes you wonder what Mutombo would do. Cook simply needs to play better, though. I think many times he's all over the place looking for blocks, and then nobody blocks out for a rebound, and nobody gets it. This needs to change. I really hope Cooley and his staff are aware of how bad this situation is (I am sure they do). Cook is averaging 11.4 points and 8.3 rebounds in his first year at a high major after moving up from Fairfield. He was a late add from the portal. What more do you expect of the guy? If there is anything to be mad at, it's that we don't have players besides Cook who are doing more from a rebounding standpoint. That's a coaching and personnel issue. That's not Supreme Cook's fault. I have a really difficult time putting too much blame on a guy that is statistically doing exactly what you brought him in to do.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Dec 11, 2023 19:36:04 GMT -5
I've been offline since Saturday morning, so this is my first opportunity to comment on Saturday's game. First, I completely agree that defensive rebounding is killing us, but in addition, Syracuse clearly had the two best players on the floor Saturday in Mintz and Starling. The only way we might have countered that would have been to shoot well from 3, and we did just the opposite. This team will live by the three and die by the three, and this was one of the games where we died. To me, some of the threes were really bad shots that were taken at or near the end of the shot clock, but particularly in the first half we had many good looks, and just missed them. Mama said there'd be days like this.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 11, 2023 20:17:37 GMT -5
Here is a supplement to my post. These are our defensive rebounds by zone: At the Rim: 54 DRB chances, 28 rebounds (9th percentile nationally-horrible) In the Paint: 53 DRB chances, 26 rebounds (1st percentile nationally-literally cannot get worse) Mid Range 2's: 65 DRB chances, 50 rebounds (68th percentile-not bad at all) Corner 3's: 24 chances, 20 rebounds (92nd percentile--really good surprisingly) Other Threes: 101 chances, 70 rebounds (31st percentile) The proof is really there in the stats. We are getting utterly destroyed at the rim and in the paint at rebounding. This is largely why our defense stinks. While Cook is efficient on offense, he's killing us on the boards. While Fielder isn't perfect by any stretch, he's been rebounding better. And it makes you wonder what Mutombo would do. Cook simply needs to play better, though. I think many times he's all over the place looking for blocks, and then nobody blocks out for a rebound, and nobody gets it. This needs to change. I really hope Cooley and his staff are aware of how bad this situation is (I am sure they do). Cook is averaging 11.4 points and 8.3 rebounds in his first year at a high major after moving up from Fairfield. He was a late add from the portal. What more do you expect of the guy? If there is anything to be mad at, it's that we don't have players besides Cook who are doing more from a rebounding standpoint. That's a coaching and personnel issue. That's not Supreme Cook's fault. I have a really difficult time putting too much blame on a guy that is statistically doing exactly what you brought him in to do. At Fairfield, Cook's defensive rebounding percentage was 22.6, 26.9, 23.5. This year it is 16.2. While the Big East is different, we haven't started playing those games, and really only played 3 games against high major competition. So no, I don't think Cook is doing what he was brought in to do. As far as other players, I can agree with you there. Akok's loss hurt there though he was never a great rebounder either. Drew Fielder is really the only good defensive rebounder we have, and his other weaknesses offset that. The only regular lineup we have that are above the 50th percentile in defensive rebounding is Epps, Burmbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder (87th percentile). Every other lineup with more than 20 possessions played is horrible. The two most common lineups we've played are Epps, Heath, Styles, Cook, and then either Bristol or Brumbaugh. The Brumbaugh lineup is 27th percentile, Bristol 45th.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 11, 2023 21:50:46 GMT -5
When you do, also include the Cooley post-game conference. When asked if our low 3FG % was due to what you describe, Cooley mentions their defense and that we missed “wide,wide-open” 3s, so it wasn’t just the defense. Again, my initial post included “everything else being equal”. It’s a huge points swing if both teams shoot to their averages, or close to it. As Cooley pointed out, our defense was terrible, but that wasn’t part of my equation. For me, I would start by not scheduling a game vs our all-time rival in the middle of Final Exams Period/Week. Cooley might have scheduled like that at Fairfield and Providence, but GU is another animal (esp. with all the new student-athletes). Follow Duke’s example and don’t play during that period or schedule cupcakes. Cooley is learning... PR, I'm a big fan of your posts, but I think you have to give Cooley & Co. a bit more of a break on this one. OOC scheduling is not always as easy as it looks. Specific to the Syracuse game, key elements include: 1) Availability of Verizon Center - not many dates available, has to be a night when the Caps and Wizards don't play or on a weekend day 2) Scheduling around other "locked-in" high major games like the Big East-Big 12 challenge and Gavitt Games (which sadly, may no longer be an issue in 2024 and beyond) 3) Scheduling around holidays - can't be during Thanksgiving week and can't be when students are out of town for Christmas break 4) Scheduling that fits Syracuse's needs, which includes #2 above and what is now an early start to the ACC season (Syracuse played at Miami the Saturday before our game) When you take these factors into consideration, there aren't that many dates to choose from, especially if you limit it to a weekend game (which it seems like we've done throughout this series since Syracuse left the Big East - which is likely to allow out of town fans to travel in for the game). In terms of scheduling around finals, I have two thoughts on that: 1) Yes, it would be great if it wasn't around finals so a lot of students show up in the stands. However, you also have the Thanksgiving/Christmas break issues mentioned above that you need to worry about and recognize that more student fans will show up during finals time than they will during Thanksgiving or Christmas break; and 2) I think it's highly unlikely that the basketball players themselves are bogged down by studying for finals. This is not 1988 or even 2018. This is the NIL era. These are professional athletes. They are at Georgetown to play basketball, not to get a degree. Studying for finals has no bearing on how a guy like Ed Cooley is scheduling in 2023 and beyond. Thanks! If these rivalry games between both schools continue, and I think everyone wants it, this game should not be during the Thanksgiving or Christmas break so that students can enjoy it, and it should be on a Saturday so that students can travel to the away game. This rivalry deserves a special date in early December. By that I mean that both schools should “lock” the date for this game which should be on the first Saturday of December (like the Kentucky Derby’s first Saturday in May). This way everyone is on notice when scheduling other games, both student bodies can travel to the away game and the game doesn’t interfere with Finals.
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Post by hsaxon on Dec 11, 2023 22:01:06 GMT -5
I've been offline since Saturday morning, so this is my first opportunity to comment on Saturday's game. First, I completely agree that defensive rebounding is killing us, but in addition, Syracuse clearly had the two best players on the floor Saturday in Mintz and Starling. The only way we might have countered that would have been to shoot well from 3, and we did just the opposite. This team will live by the three and die by the three, and this was one of the games where we died. To me, some of the threes were really bad shots that were taken at or near the end of the shot clock, but particularly in the first half we had many good looks, and just missed them. Mama said there'd be days like this. Plenty of bad shots.
Cuse had the two best players.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 11, 2023 22:06:38 GMT -5
I've been offline since Saturday morning, so this is my first opportunity to comment on Saturday's game. First, I completely agree that defensive rebounding is killing us, but in addition, Syracuse clearly had the two best players on the floor Saturday in Mintz and Starling. The only way we might have countered that would have been to shoot well from 3, and we did just the opposite. This team will live by the three and die by the three, and this was one of the games where we died. To me, some of the threes were really bad shots that were taken at or near the end of the shot clock, but particularly in the first half we had many good looks, and just missed them. Mama said there'd be days like this. Plenty of bad shots. Cuse had the two best players.
I can agree with that.
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Dec 11, 2023 23:51:36 GMT -5
Cook is averaging 11.4 points and 8.3 rebounds in his first year at a high major after moving up from Fairfield. He was a late add from the portal. What more do you expect of the guy? If there is anything to be mad at, it's that we don't have players besides Cook who are doing more from a rebounding standpoint. That's a coaching and personnel issue. That's not Supreme Cook's fault. I have a really difficult time putting too much blame on a guy that is statistically doing exactly what you brought him in to do. At Fairfield, Cook's defensive rebounding percentage was 22.6, 26.9, 23.5. This year it is 16.2. While the Big East is different, we haven't started playing those games, and really only played 3 games against high major competition. So no, I don't think Cook is doing what he was brought in to do. As far as other players, I can agree with you there. Akok's loss hurt there though he was never a great rebounder either. Drew Fielder is really the only good defensive rebounder we have, and his other weaknesses offset that. The only regular lineup we have that are above the 50th percentile in defensive rebounding is Epps, Burmbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder (87th percentile). Every other lineup with more than 20 possessions played is horrible. The two most common lineups we've played are Epps, Heath, Styles, Cook, and then either Bristol or Brumbaugh. The Brumbaugh lineup is 27th percentile, Bristol 45th. You keep repeating the individual DR% number as if it means something on its own. First - Poor defensive rebounding is not a death sentence. USC (46), FSU (71), Missouri (74), UVA (4), Rutgers (13), Syracuse (80), and Memphis (34) are all worse DReb high-major teams than us & all of them are Top 100 KP defenses. Why? Because they're not total tire fires on that side of the ball. We don't turn teams over, we allow easy buckets (b/c of our poor G defense and our lack of interior presence), and we end up fouling teams a decent amount -- which is fairly unique for teams that don't pressure the ball & get TOs. With 3FG defense being far more of a crapshoot than 2FG, our defense could conceivably get even worse if teams ever start hitting more threes - while actually improving our DR%. When teams shoot more "close twos" (dunks, tips, layups - per BartT) at a higher percentage against you than any team in the conference, why would anybody need to shoot threes? Also - when offensive players are in a better position to score (i.e. closer to the hoop), they are also in a better position to grab an offensive rebound. You get hurt both ways. Wanna gripe about Cook? He's not a rim protector. That's much worse (not that he can do much about it) than him currently being at 16.2 DR%. But the terrible D starts on the perimeter. Bottom line -- our defense is awful, and it's currently leading to a skewing of defensive rebounding metrics. Not the other way around. As for Cook's individual numbers... - Effective Height of our team (not average height) when Styles was our PF. (It's a rising tide lifts all boats stat). As you wrote above the Fielder/Cook lineup is going to be better - for the team - than a Cook/Styles one. Massoud should be a little better than Styles w/ Cook at C, but maybe not enough. - 3Pt FG misses as a % of total misses -- already discussed - he's already up 1.2% in the last three games, alongside Ish - who's arguably as tall as SC & no reason he couldn't continue current trajectory towards 18-19 DR% - minutes, usage, system, etc Ken Pomeroy suggested in his Basketball Prospectus days... "if you make a high percentage of your shots and have trouble on the defensive end, it's foolish to crash the offensive boards." That might actually be a good idea for this squad, and help us set our D... which might in turn improve defensive rebounding.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 12, 2023 7:32:57 GMT -5
Ken Pomeroy suggested in his Basketball Prospectus days... "if you make a high percentage of your shots and have trouble on the defensive end, it's foolish to crash the offensive boards." That might actually be a good idea for this squad, and help us set our D... which might in turn improve defensive rebounding. In one of the first games of the season, the TV broadcast showed one of Cooley’s timeout huddles. He instructed the team to transition quickly off defensive rebounds and to slow it down off made baskets. Since we’re a bad rebounding team and we don’t take care of the ball, I would scrap the quick transition part. I think it would make a big difference for this team to focus on defensive rebounds and doing it as a unit of 5, not two and the other three off and running. Just forget about the quick transition and only focus on not giving the other team so many second-chance bunnies or long rebounds off missed 3s.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 12, 2023 9:57:01 GMT -5
I don't know. The colors on the uniforms were the same, but in retrospect without Boeheim, a stronger link to J2Jr, and the 2-3 zone, I was underwhelmed by this game. I would be OK if we moved on to other rivalries.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Dec 12, 2023 11:07:05 GMT -5
I would be OK if we moved on to other rivalries. Which are who exactly? The schools mentioned in the fight song?
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 12, 2023 11:09:37 GMT -5
I would be OK if we moved on to other rivalries. Which are who exactly? The schools mentioned in the fight song? I think we'd probably start with the school our Coach came from whose fans hate our guts - that matchup has been circled on the calendar as game of the year by everyone in college basketball. Also, Maryland because there's history there and they are actually close in geography. Syracuse rivalry is kinda meh.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 12, 2023 11:28:53 GMT -5
You keep repeating the individual DR% number as if it means something on its own. First - Poor defensive rebounding is not a death sentence. USC (46), FSU (71), Missouri (74), UVA (4), Rutgers (13), Syracuse (80), and Memphis (34) are all worse DReb high-major teams than us & all of them are Top 100 KP defenses. Why? Because they're not total tire fires on that side of the ball. We don't turn teams over, we allow easy buckets (b/c of our poor G defense and our lack of interior presence), and we end up fouling teams a decent amount -- which is fairly unique for teams that don't pressure the ball & get TOs. With 3FG defense being far more of a crapshoot than 2FG, our defense could conceivably get even worse if teams ever start hitting more threes - while actually improving our DR%. When teams shoot more "close twos" (dunks, tips, layups - per BartT) at a higher percentage against you than any team in the conference, why would anybody need to shoot threes? Also - when offensive players are in a better position to score (i.e. closer to the hoop), they are also in a better position to grab an offensive rebound. You get hurt both ways. Wanna gripe about Cook? He's not a rim protector. That's much worse (not that he can do much about it) than him currently being at 16.2 DR%. But the terrible D starts on the perimeter. Bottom line -- our defense is awful, and it's currently leading to a skewing of defensive rebounding metrics. Not the other way around. As for Cook's individual numbers... - Effective Height of our team (not average height) when Styles was our PF. (It's a rising tide lifts all boats stat). As you wrote above the Fielder/Cook lineup is going to be better - for the team - than a Cook/Styles one. Massoud should be a little better than Styles w/ Cook at C, but maybe not enough. - 3Pt FG misses as a % of total misses -- already discussed - he's already up 1.2% in the last three games, alongside Ish - who's arguably as tall as SC & no reason he couldn't continue current trajectory towards 18-19 DR% - minutes, usage, system, etc Ken Pomeroy suggested in his Basketball Prospectus days... "if you make a high percentage of your shots and have trouble on the defensive end, it's foolish to crash the offensive boards." That might actually be a good idea for this squad, and help us set our D... which might in turn improve defensive rebounding. First, you say I am focusing on individual defensive rebounding rate. But everybody on the team who has played any significant minutes has a pretty bad rebounding rate except for Fielder, which means the team's defensive rebounding rate is bad. Really, nobody is doing it well, which is hurting our team. Second, I am focusing on it because it's something that should be easier to fix than some of the other problems. Things like steals, forcing turnovers, etc. is often a matter of athleticism and skill. Those factors aren't changing. But our guys can box out better. I am not sure if you saw my other post, but at the rim we are 9th percentile in DR rate, and in the paint the 1st percentile. There is huge room for improvement here. I don't care how limited Cook might be athletically or skill-wise, he should be able to rebound better than that. Third, I agree with you that you can have a much better defense without rebounding better. But, that would require, as you note, turning over other teams, getting steals, etc. This team's personnel just is not made for that. Can we get better? Maybe at the margins, but we aren't going to go from forcing a handful of turnovers to forcing a lot. But is our overall defense bad? Yes. I am just trying to focus on how it can be better. And rebounding is something I am confident we could do better.
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Dec 12, 2023 15:54:39 GMT -5
Which are who exactly? The schools mentioned in the fight song? I think we'd probably start with the school our Coach came from whose fans hate our guts - that matchup has been circled on the calendar as game of the year by everyone in college basketball. Also, Maryland because there's history there and they are actually close in geography. Syracuse rivalry is kinda meh. I'm talking non conference. Getting into a big thing with Providence is punching down in terms of brands.
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