miracles87
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,150
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Post by miracles87 on Jan 22, 2023 10:08:53 GMT -5
Why would DeGioia want to appease a dozen or so loudmouths on the internet? I know y'all enjoy egging each other on, convinced that your feelings are more important than Brandon Murray's, but make no mistake, the people that matter don't think much of such the kind of garbage that is spewed around here. You need to sit this one out. Not fair. I have needs too. Just because I would rather direct my primal screams towards the loosely nit loser cabal on HoyaTalk than join them in their pathetic whining does NOT mean these last couple years haven't made me want to do the triple Lindy off the Key Bridge from time to time
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hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,031
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Post by hoyajmw on Jan 22, 2023 10:44:42 GMT -5
With the win Saturday, Xavier keeps alive its very faint hopes of being only the second team in Big East history to go through a conference season, including the BET, with only one loss in the double-round robin era (the only one so far is Ray Allen's 95-96 UCONN team and his freakin' "I went up thinking I was gonna pass" shot in the BET final. Hoyas also did it in the 79-80 single round robin season, going 7-1 overall on the way to inaugural Big East title (the year we "officially closed" Manley then beat SUcks again in BET final). NO team has ever gone undefeated even in the regular conference season, which DePaul earlier in the week made sure X would not do...
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 22, 2023 10:45:00 GMT -5
You need to sit this one out. Not fair. I have needs too. Just because I would rather direct my primal screams towards the loosely nit loser cabal on HoyaTalk than join them in their pathetic whining does NOT mean these last couple years haven't made me want to do the triple Lindy off the Key Bridge from time to time So, those of us that saw this problem early on and want a change so the team that represents our university can be successful are losers? That’s an odd take.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,332
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Post by thedragon on Jan 22, 2023 10:50:48 GMT -5
You need to sit this one out. Not fair. I have needs too. Just because I would rather direct my primal screams towards the loosely nit loser cabal on HoyaTalk than join them in their pathetic whining does NOT mean these last couple years haven't made me want to do the triple Lindy off the Key Bridge from time to time Maybe, and I'm just spit-balling out loud here, it isn't particularly effective to greatly misrepresent the number of people calling for this obviously sinking ship to throw the captain and his crew overboard while simultaneously tossing out insults. If Ewing means more to you than the school/program - more power to you and your loyalty. But I would think it prudent or maybe just realistic, to realize that you are the vast minority in the alumni/fanbase - not the, checks notes, "loser cabal of pathetic whiners" you called the rest of us.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 22, 2023 12:29:57 GMT -5
Fear of Ewing not showing up for the 40th anniversary of the national championship? If that is enough all hope is lost…. If JD is heading up the search then hope is lost in my view, hard to head in the right direction when the person steering has blinders on
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jackofjoy
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 237
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Post by jackofjoy on Jan 22, 2023 13:14:17 GMT -5
Why would DeGioia want to appease a dozen or so loudmouths on the internet? I know y'all enjoy egging each other on, convinced that your feelings are more important than Brandon Murray's, but make no mistake, the people that matter don't think much of such the kind of garbage that is spewed around here. The "why do we ever want to do something to please / answer a question from / explain something to the fanbase" attitude really has to change with this next hire. In 2022, all of that is part of the job, and doing those things is how you build trust. There's no relationship between the program and the audience because that's been the attitude for 50 years, and maybe it worked in the 1980's - mainly because there was a mutual mistrust of the media that were the middlemen between the program and the audience (Feinstein, Curry Kirkpatrick, etc were all boogeymen then). We're not in the 1980's anymore and you can now have a much more direct relationship with fans. This. I'm more worried that JD is focused on a dozen or so cronies and hangers-on.
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bluegray79
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,100
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Post by bluegray79 on Jan 22, 2023 13:15:52 GMT -5
About Primo and his game against Xavier -- yes, to all the posters saying he was hot and the only real PG out there and he's only a layer and the coach allows for that to happen, and that he also had 11 assists, etc., etc. My takeaway is how I felt the whole game watching all that. I'm more than happy to have a player who can get hot and go off like that. He is definitely a unique talent in his ability to create space and hit a pretty high percentage of his shots. But the whole time I was struck yet again by the unsustainability of our offense. Yes, our defense in indefensibly bad, but just watching difficult shot after difficult shot be our offense had me shaking my head wondering how we could expect to win and how the coaches could be watching the same game I was and not make any apparent adjustments. It was a decent game score-wise until the last 4 minutes, but it wasn't a fun game to watch. I never felt like we were finally going to pull off a W. It's all become so fatalistic and depressingly predictable. Hell, here's my prediction posted 4-5 days before:
We will see glimpses of play that make us think, maybe believe, for a nanosecond that we can keep it up and stay with Xavier. Little by little, however, they will pull away and win by 15-20.
John Boehner 83 Eric, Ivanka & Tiffany 65
And, despite my presence here, I'm not an overly knowledgeable sports guy, I don't bet on games and I generally suck at predicting games. But when you look at what we do and how we keep doing it, game after game, it's really maddening.
Hire Rick Pitino, please. Let the basketball gods swing that pendulum the other way and stop the madness. Rick Pitino.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 23, 2023 11:04:38 GMT -5
A few quick toughts:
- We allowed Xavier to score 1.27 points per possession, another horrendous defensive performance. This seems to be a common refrain. For perspective on how bad we are, Georgetown has given up 1.19 points per possession in Big East play. DePaul is 10th, and they give up 1.07. And DePaul isn't good either. We are just next-level-horrendous. It'll be hard to win any games, including against DePaul, if we give up points at this rate.
- Our offense scored 1.09 points per possession. Not eye popping, but it would be good enough to win games if we had a decent offense. I would love to see one of those "shot quality v. shot makes" chart for this game. Primo, especially, took a LOT of bad shots, but made them to his credit. This included a lot of long twos, but also just really bad shots closer to the basket that went in. Primo's biggest problem at this point, aside from shot selection, is that he turns it over way too much. 7 last game, 6 this game. That really hurts his efficiency substantially.
I think Primo is a talented guy. I would love to see someone like Pitino coach him, as I think with some structure he'd be a lot more efficient and a much more valuable player.
- Riley is obviously not a perfect player, and while it makes sense he would be behind Murray and Heath on the depth chart, I still see absolutely no reason why he was benched for much of the OOC.
- We had a bizarre minute where Ezewiro played with Wilson. How many people had that bewildering lineup on thier bingo cards?
- Ryan Mutomobo's continued absence remains strange, not because I think he'd improve our team substantially, but because we stink and if Wilson gets any minutes, it's odd that Ryan isn't getting them.
- Akok had 3 blocks and 2 steals. It's hard to imagine how much worse our defense would be without him. He's a guy I truly hope remains on the roster even if there are coaching changes at the end of they year.
- The announcers of the game said a bunch of erroneous things, but I did think it was funny that they had a crush on Primo Spears.
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Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
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Post by Elvado on Jan 23, 2023 11:15:32 GMT -5
The "why do we ever want to do something to please / answer a question from / explain something to the fanbase" attitude really has to change with this next hire. In 2022, all of that is part of the job, and doing those things is how you build trust. There's no relationship between the program and the audience because that's been the attitude for 50 years, and maybe it worked in the 1980's - mainly because there was a mutual mistrust of the media that were the middlemen between the program and the audience (Feinstein, Curry Kirkpatrick, etc were all boogeymen then). We're not in the 1980's anymore and you can now have a much more direct relationship with fans. I'd be satisfied with looking around at best practices at other programs and simply adopting some of them. That really shouldn't be controversial. Heck, you can look internally at best practices for some of it. I have supported men's soccer and baseball over the years so I'm on their lists. In season I get an email each week or two from the head coach with a little synopsis on what just happened and what is to come. It usually contains just a bit of inside information although nothing even remotely controversial. The hoops equivalent would be "we've really been working with Q on recognizing and passing out of double teams and he did a good job one possession against Xavier and got a hockey assist on an open three. Hopefully we see more of that.". Shoot, it doesn't even have to be true!!! And neeedless to say, the head coach doesn't actually have to write it or be involved at all. Year ago I bought a pair of sneakers from Ewing’s company. I get three emails a week from them. Priorities….
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jan 23, 2023 14:10:38 GMT -5
I'd be satisfied with looking around at best practices at other programs and simply adopting some of them. That really shouldn't be controversial. Heck, you can look internally at best practices for some of it. I have supported men's soccer and baseball over the years so I'm on their lists. In season I get an email each week or two from the head coach with a little synopsis on what just happened and what is to come. It usually contains just a bit of inside information although nothing even remotely controversial. The hoops equivalent would be "we've really been working with Q on recognizing and passing out of double teams and he did a good job one possession against Xavier and got a hockey assist on an open three. Hopefully we see more of that.". Shoot, it doesn't even have to be true!!! And neeedless to say, the head coach doesn't actually have to write it or be involved at all. Year ago I bought a pair of sneakers from Ewing’s company. I get three emails a week from them. Priorities…. Good story, Abe. media.giphy.com/media/3o6Mb97xcLXhAy0RAk/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e478nfisezbokgojla4jfkft5dsj43ldtxrnup8bkq2&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 23, 2023 14:48:46 GMT -5
There was preseason discussion about whether Denver was a 1 or 2. Based on the evidence so far, I do not see a 1, but I’m trying to keep coaching and lack of PT in mind. The more serious aspect is the time on the court this imposes on Primo. He continues to play very high minutes (a Ewing trademark) and I can’t help wonder how much of the “bad” we see in him would be mitigated by fewer minutes.
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bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 236
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Post by bills on Jan 23, 2023 15:11:29 GMT -5
A few quick toughts: - We allowed Xavier to score 1.27 points per possession, another horrendous defensive performance. This seems to be a common refrain. For perspective on how bad we are, Georgetown has given up 1.19 points per possession in Big East play. DePaul is 10th, and they give up 1.07. And DePaul isn't good either. We are just next-level-horrendous. It'll be hard to win any games, including against DePaul, if we give up points at this rate. - Our offense scored 1.09 points per possession. Not eye popping, but it would be good enough to win games if we had a decent offense. I would love to see one of those "shot quality v. shot makes" chart for this game. Primo, especially, took a LOT of bad shots, but made them to his credit. This included a lot of long twos, but also just really bad shots closer to the basket that went in. Primo's biggest problem at this point, aside from shot selection, is that he turns it over way too much. 7 last game, 6 this game. That really hurts his efficiency substantially. I think Primo is a talented guy. I would love to see someone like Pitino coach him, as I think with some structure he'd be a lot more efficient and a much more valuable player. - Riley is obviously not a perfect player, and while it makes sense he would be behind Murray and Heath on the depth chart, I still see absolutely no reason why he was benched for much of the OOC. - We had a bizarre minute where Ezewiro played with Wilson. How many people had that bewildering lineup on thier bingo cards? - Ryan Mutomobo's continued absence remains strange, not because I think he'd improve our team substantially, but because we stink and if Wilson gets any minutes, it's odd that Ryan isn't getting them. - Akok had 3 blocks and 2 steals. It's hard to imagine how much worse our defense would be without him. He's a guy I truly hope remains on the roster even if there are coaching changes at the end of they year. - The announcers of the game said a bunch of erroneous things, but I did think it was funny that they had a crush on Primo Spears. The thing that stands out to me are how many turnovers we have that result in an open layup for the other team. Points off turnovers captures part of that but it significantly impacts a number of other statistics IMHO - opponents points per possession, field goal percentage allowed, points in the paint are some of them. These are uncontested layups and dunks, not breakdowns in our defense. Every team has some turnovers but I think very few have the number of turnovers that we have that result in a breakaway uncontested basket. I don’t have hard statistics, just an opinion that our defensive statistics go from poor to atrocious because of the uncontested layups give up because of really bad turnovers. It is very hard to win games when you are working the ball against a set defense and your opponent is making layups.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 23, 2023 16:27:48 GMT -5
A few quick toughts: - We allowed Xavier to score 1.27 points per possession, another horrendous defensive performance. This seems to be a common refrain. For perspective on how bad we are, Georgetown has given up 1.19 points per possession in Big East play. DePaul is 10th, and they give up 1.07. And DePaul isn't good either. We are just next-level-horrendous. It'll be hard to win any games, including against DePaul, if we give up points at this rate. - Our offense scored 1.09 points per possession. Not eye popping, but it would be good enough to win games if we had a decent offense. I would love to see one of those "shot quality v. shot makes" chart for this game. Primo, especially, took a LOT of bad shots, but made them to his credit. This included a lot of long twos, but also just really bad shots closer to the basket that went in. Primo's biggest problem at this point, aside from shot selection, is that he turns it over way too much. 7 last game, 6 this game. That really hurts his efficiency substantially. I think Primo is a talented guy. I would love to see someone like Pitino coach him, as I think with some structure he'd be a lot more efficient and a much more valuable player. - Riley is obviously not a perfect player, and while it makes sense he would be behind Murray and Heath on the depth chart, I still see absolutely no reason why he was benched for much of the OOC. - We had a bizarre minute where Ezewiro played with Wilson. How many people had that bewildering lineup on thier bingo cards? - Ryan Mutomobo's continued absence remains strange, not because I think he'd improve our team substantially, but because we stink and if Wilson gets any minutes, it's odd that Ryan isn't getting them. - Akok had 3 blocks and 2 steals. It's hard to imagine how much worse our defense would be without him. He's a guy I truly hope remains on the roster even if there are coaching changes at the end of they year. - The announcers of the game said a bunch of erroneous things, but I did think it was funny that they had a crush on Primo Spears. The thing that stands out to me are how many turnovers we have that result in an open layup for the other team. Points off turnovers captures part of that but it significantly impacts a number of other statistics IMHO - opponents points per possession, field goal percentage allowed, points in the paint are some of them. These are uncontested layups and dunks, not breakdowns in our defense. Every team has some turnovers but I think very few have the number of turnovers that we have that result in a breakaway uncontested basket. I don’t have hard statistics, just an opinion that our defensive statistics go from poor to atrocious because of the uncontested layups give up because of really bad turnovers. It is very hard to win games when you are working the ball against a set defense and your opponent is making layups. It’s a lot of little things we don’t do well that put us in a position to lose.
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bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 236
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Post by bills on Jan 23, 2023 18:42:26 GMT -5
I don’t think the turnovers are a little thing.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 23, 2023 19:18:59 GMT -5
The thing that stands out to me are how many turnovers we have that result in an open layup for the other team. Points off turnovers captures part of that but it significantly impacts a number of other statistics IMHO - opponents points per possession, field goal percentage allowed, points in the paint are some of them. These are uncontested layups and dunks, not breakdowns in our defense. Every team has some turnovers but I think very few have the number of turnovers that we have that result in a breakaway uncontested basket. I don’t have hard statistics, just an opinion that our defensive statistics go from poor to atrocious because of the uncontested layups give up because of really bad turnovers. It is very hard to win games when you are working the ball against a set defense and your opponent is making layups. You are right, but giving up a lot of breakaway uncontested shots is also a good indication that our defense is problematic, too. We give up a ton of open shots on half-court sets too. The utter failure to defend and failure to contest shots is a major probelm. As you said, it is hard to win games when you are letting your opponents make layups, and you instead are taking long twos. Someone else mentioned the huddle, where Ewing told the guys to pass up bad threes for twos. In principle, this would make sense if his instruction was to take open layups rather than bad threes. But that's not what our guys do. They cannot get open threes easily, and they struggle to get layups, and then you have guys like Murray and Primo throwing up awful long twos, often with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. They don't even try to work for a good shot, since we have no offensive structure other than isolations. I admired how Xavier's offense really worked the ball to get a good shot on offense. They weren't slow, but they also didn't chuck it up before trying to get a good shot. If you watch our opponents, they take almost no long twos because they are awful shots and the worst shot in basketball. But, we are playing a 1985 game in a 2023 world.
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