The sources of our problems?

[jwp91]

One of the biggest reasons JTIII failed was a failure to adapt to changes in the game. He undervalued the importance of traditional PGs as guards emerged to dominate the game. Changes in the ways referees interpreted and applied the rules also made his preferred style of play less effective. In my opinion, he didn’t adapt quickly enough to changes in the game, and it cost him his career as a college coach.

I wonder is Coach Ewing is also suffering from not adapting fast enough to changes in the game.

I am not an expert X’s & O’s guy, but I think this video explains some concepts that I think we are struggling with.



None of our bigs are agile enough to switch everything….except maybe Billingsley, and he has other problems. And when are opponents do this to us, we are not savvy enough (and maybe skilled enough) to feed our center to take advantage of the mismatch.

I wonder if we are stuck in the old paradigm with our players and style of play while others have progressed.

Thoughts?

[hoyalove4ever]

Teams can win with a multitude of styles. We just need good enough players, and we need the skills of those players to match that system. We have struggled with skill level and match.

[southernhoyafan]

I think this thread speaks directly to my earlier post which I detailed what I think is acting as a barrier to program success.

This was posted twice before.--Admin

[Lethal_Interjection]

[johnnysnowplow]

Feb 2, 2022 13:41:50 GMT -5 southernhoyafan said:

I think this thread speaks directly to my earlier post which I detailed what I think is acting as a barrier to program success.

1) Ability to Connect - First time head coach who played under and adored the legendary John Thompson. Ewing came in with that same Thompson hard nose man-up approach to interacting with young people verses establishing his own approach. You can't use that approach with young people today. Its a different era. Different mindset that these kids have today. Ewing came from that "man-up" environment which was again, instilled in him by Coach Thompson and its also apart of his upbringing given his Caribbean background where you work hard and you are called out when necessary. Again, different time... Different kids... Contributes to the large number of transfers...

2) Staffing - I think Ewing if had it to do all over again, would construct his staff differently... More youth and a staff that connects better with young people vs some of the guys that are there now. No connection... No energy... Lack of understanding of what it takes to motivate young people... That's what happens when you are "ole skool". Again, contributes to the large number of transfers...

3) Team Construction (A) - This current team is badly constructed. You all are on here talking as if much more can be done with this team. IT CAN"T!!! WAKE UP!!! Look at this team for what it really is. You have a non athletic team with the exception of 0, 2, 12, and maybe 3. Other than those that I named, these guys do not have the athleticism to compete as you need them to. Look at how they can't catch simple passes. Look at how they trip and fall so easily. Look at how bad their defense is. Look at how many fouls they commit when they do try to play tight defense. Look at the number of turnovers. A team with no athleticism equals bad defense, lots of turnovers, and lots of fouls and ultimately, a lot of losses. You have a young team.

And on top of it all, he wants to play a speed up offense with a team that lack athleticism. You can't do that as we can see. He has to be willing to accept that and slow this team down on offense and work the ball around in some sort of a motion offense. To be perfectly honest, this team is PERFECTLY BUILT for JTIII's Princeton Style Offense. But speeding this team up on offense is going to result in more turnovers.

4) Team Construction (B) - You have 4 bigs on the team that are all projects. That's not how you construct a team. You can't build your team with all projects. Granted... we lost a big due to disciplinary issues/transfer before the season began... But you have 4 projects. So you expect project-type outcomes.

With all of that being said, I won't sit here and call for a coaching change as I believe that Ewing is a coach who can realize adjustments need to be made and has the ability to make those adjustments. Additionally, I will not argue with those who says that a coaching change is deserved as the evidence is what it is. What I will say is that I am still with my Hoyas including both coaches and players. Always will be... Because 1 thing I do see is that Ewing coaches hard and the players are playing hard. They are committed and so am I.

You’ve copy/pasted this in 3 different threads

[southernhoyafan]

Happy reading to ya in 3 different places.

[drquigley]

I remember how happy we were with Ewings system when he first got here because we were sick of that slow neo-Princeton offense. The fast pace was exhilarating. But we see now that every time Ewing tried to find guys to fit that fast paced NBA style offense he failed. Either they transferred, got kicked out, or were just not good enough. As others have pointed out if you add Akinjo, Wahab, LeBlanc and maybe the transfer who got kicked out of school this year to Carey, Harris, Mohammad, and maybe Riley you definitely don't have an 0-8 BE team. May even have a BE contender if Pickett stayed. But his failure to develop an atmosphere suitable to keep those guys is just as much a knock on his coaching as are his X and O failures during a game. Just look at Jay Wright and Cooley.

[hoya9797]

Feb 2, 2022 14:26:49 GMT -5 southernhoyafan said:

Happy reading to ya in 3 different places.

What evidence do you have that Ewing knows how to or is willing to make adjustments?

[southernhoyafan]

Feb 2, 2022 14:40:53 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Feb 2, 2022 14:26:49 GMT -5 southernhoyafan said:

Happy reading to ya in 3 different places.

What evidence do you have that Ewing knows how to or is willing to make adjustments?

[hoya9797]

Feb 2, 2022 15:25:43 GMT -5 southernhoyafan said:

Feb 2, 2022 14:40:53 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

What evidence do you have that Ewing knows how to or is willing to make adjustments?

Nothing. Just as I figured.

[southernhoyafan]

Look. I am not defending him. The picture is what it is. I'm just not calling for his head. I am just going to sit back and let the Georgetown administration handle things and let the chips fall where they may. And whichever way that is, I am going to be a Hoyas supporter.

[rhw485]

Honestly this is stuff I've been writing on this board for almost two years if I went back to the timestamps.  When the video showed the Xs and Os of the hard hedge I felt seen.  In reality, even though we're playing more of a drop(ish) coverage, our help defenders do the same thing and suck in.  I've talked about the fact that we dont switch screens, I do think the reality there is we haven't recruited personnel that could handle that system.  Small point guards and large centers struggle in those situations.  Nova has a system, they recruit to it.

That being said, while I've advocated for something, anything, resembling schemes more like this, we've crossed the point of no return.  UConn, Seton Hall, Michigan, Purdue and countless others all play 7 footers and don't switch everything and have competent defenses.  We're so far away on that end that we're not a tweak away.  And more importantly, Ewing has shown no desire or ability to adapt on that end of the floor.  He consistently puts it on the players not listening to him.  

Yes, we have a 10 game (not 4 game) sample where the scheme worked with a more athletic, experienced team that took a few months (and maybe a players only meeting)  and everything locked in (with maybe a touch of 3 point luck in McDonough but that doesnt explain the BET).  Either way a good system can't require perfect conditions for competence.  

[EtomicB]

The program hasn't had any cohesiveness during Coach Ewing's era which I think stems from his systems that calls for individuals to make plays for the team not the team making plays for the individual...

In other words I think this teams play very selfishly in almost all facets of the game, hard to win a lot in a team oriented sport like basketball in my view...

[prhoya]

Feb 2, 2022 15:29:26 GMT -5 rhw485 said:

That being said, while I've advocated for something, anything, resembling schemes more like this, we've crossed the point of no return.  UConn, Seton Hall, Michigan, Purdue and countless others all play 7 footers and don't switch everything and have competent defenses.  We're so far away on that end that we're not a tweak away.  And more importantly, Ewing has shown no desire or ability to adapt on that end of the floor.  He consistently puts it on the players not listening to him.  

After $15M and five years, Pat is still trying to figure out how he wants his team to play defense. But, he doesn’t teach or communicate the logic to his players. Just terrible! Here’s Yurt in his own words:

“Defensively, Yurtseven was put into a system that asks a lot of its center in pick-and-roll coverage, no matter how good of a fit they are for it. For a Georgetown defense that ranked last in the Big East in defensive rating last season, its refusal to have its centers play anything but the hedge defense they are asked to execute on ball screens was head-scratching, to say the least.

“In past years, when Jessie [Govan] was here, we played down on the sides, and then hedge free throw line and up. This past year, he [Patrick Ewing] just decided to play hedge, and we just followed. I don’t really know why,” said Yurtseven. “But it was his scheme and all we had to do was go with it and trust in it. That’s what we did as a team and tried to run it the best way possible.”

“I tried to talk to him once,” Yurtseven went on to say. “I was trying to learn what is the basketball logic behind hedging, because I wanted to know, and he just said that’s the way I want to play, and that was it. That was the only answer I heard.”

247sports.com/college/georgetown/Article/omer-yurtseven-readies-for-nba-draft-looks-back-on-georgetown-hoyas-career-153091736/

[hoyajmw]

Feb 2, 2022 15:43:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Feb 2, 2022 15:29:26 GMT -5 rhw485 said:

That being said, while I've advocated for something, anything, resembling schemes more like this, we've crossed the point of no return.  UConn, Seton Hall, Michigan, Purdue and countless others all play 7 footers and don't switch everything and have competent defenses.  We're so far away on that end that we're not a tweak away.  And more importantly, Ewing has shown no desire or ability to adapt on that end of the floor.  He consistently puts it on the players not listening to him.  

After $15M and five years, Pat is still trying to figure out how he wants his team to play defense. But, he doesn’t teach or communicate the logic to his players. Just terrible! Here’s Yurt in his own words:

“Defensively, Yurtseven was put into a system that asks a lot of its center in pick-and-roll coverage, no matter how good of a fit they are for it. For a Georgetown defense that ranked last in the Big East in defensive rating last season, its refusal to have its centers play anything but the hedge defense they are asked to execute on ball screens was head-scratching, to say the least.

“In past years, when Jessie [Govan] was here, we played down on the sides, and then hedge free throw line and up. This past year, he [Patrick Ewing] just decided to play hedge, and we just followed. I don’t really know why,” said Yurtseven. “But it was his scheme and all we had to do was go with it and trust in it. That’s what we did as a team and tried to run it the best way possible.”

“I tried to talk to him once,” Yurtseven went on to say. “I was trying to learn what is the basketball logic behind hedging, because I wanted to know, and he just said that’s the way I want to play, and that was it. That was the only answer I heard.”

247sports.com/college/georgetown/Article/omer-yurtseven-readies-for-nba-draft-looks-back-on-georgetown-hoyas-career-153091736/

Now THAT is one of the most damning things I’ve ever read and puts some real inside knowledge into the sense many of us have from the outside looking in on attitude toward players and willingness to adapt. Thanks for posting!

[bigskyhoya]

Feb 2, 2022 15:43:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Feb 2, 2022 15:29:26 GMT -5 rhw485 said:

That being said, while I've advocated for something, anything, resembling schemes more like this, we've crossed the point of no return.  UConn, Seton Hall, Michigan, Purdue and countless others all play 7 footers and don't switch everything and have competent defenses.  We're so far away on that end that we're not a tweak away.  And more importantly, Ewing has shown no desire or ability to adapt on that end of the floor.  He consistently puts it on the players not listening to him.  

After $15M and five years, Pat is still trying to figure out how he wants his team to play defense. But, he doesn’t teach or communicate the logic to his players. Just terrible! Here’s Yurt in his own words:

“Defensively, Yurtseven was put into a system that asks a lot of its center in pick-and-roll coverage, no matter how good of a fit they are for it. For a Georgetown defense that ranked last in the Big East in defensive rating last season, its refusal to have its centers play anything but the hedge defense they are asked to execute on ball screens was head-scratching, to say the least.

“In past years, when Jessie [Govan] was here, we played down on the sides, and then hedge free throw line and up. This past year, he [Patrick Ewing] just decided to play hedge, and we just followed. I don’t really know why,” said Yurtseven. “But it was his scheme and all we had to do was go with it and trust in it. That’s what we did as a team and tried to run it the best way possible.”

“I tried to talk to him once,” Yurtseven went on to say. “I was trying to learn what is the basketball logic behind hedging, because I wanted to know, and he just said that’s the way I want to play, and that was it. That was the only answer I heard.”

247sports.com/college/georgetown/Article/omer-yurtseven-readies-for-nba-draft-looks-back-on-georgetown-hoyas-career-153091736/

Yurt doesn't sound angry, just matter-of-fact. And what he said is consistent with what most of us see. Little willingness to adapt or change.

[SSHoya]

Not only an unwillingness to adapt or change, but also an inability (or unwillingness) to communicate to his players.

Anyone who has ever been in a leadership position should know if you can't explain the "why" of a proposed course of action but instead rely upon "because I said so" you have failed as a leader.

[the_way]

1a) Recruiting.

1b) GM/roster construction - making sure all the pieces fit.

JT2 was a master of roster construction. JTIII struggled with it. Ewing is cognizant of matchup-problems with personnel, but evaluating/bringing the guys in from the high school level has been a challenge in filling needs. He has done well with graduate-transfers/transfers though.

This current group has a lack of athleticism and height and defensive prowess at the 3,4, and 5 positions. As a result, we have tweeners trying to play against the trees inside. Opponents scoring at will inside the paint. Alley-oop dunks against us. Our bigs getting their shot and dunk attempts blocked.

We have 1 primary ball-handler at guard. The rest of our "guards" are swing-guys, not necessarily deft ballhandlers. So that puts an enormous pressure on the PG to play a substantial amount of minutes.


2) Coaching half-court defense

Wide-open 3's and guys having career nights against us behind the arc.


These are the main source of the problems. Fix 2 and we can live with the personnel deficits. Fix 2 and we would have won a few games this year already and would have won more games during the Ewing era.

Fix 1 and 2, we are annual contenders in college basketball.

[calhoya]

Feb 3, 2022 5:38:38 GMT -5 the_way said:

1a) Recruiting.

1b) GM/roster construction - making sure all the pieces fit.

JT2 was a master of roster construction. JTIII struggled with it. Ewing is cognizant of matchup-problems with personnel, but evaluating/bringing the guys in from the high school level has been a challenge in filling needs. He has done well with graduate-transfers/transfers though.

This current group has a lack of athleticism and height and defensive prowess at the 3,4, and 5 positions. As a result, we have tweeners trying to play against the trees inside. Opponents scoring at will inside the paint. Alley-oop dunks against us. Our bigs getting their shot and dunk attempts blocked.

We have 1 primary ball-handler at guard. The rest of our "guards" are swing-guys, not necessarily deft ballhandlers. So that puts an enormous pressure on the PG to play a substantial amount of minutes.


2) Coaching half-court defense

Wide-open 3's and guys having career nights against us behind the arc.


These are the main source of the problems. Fix 2 and we can live with the personnel deficits. Fix 2 and we would have won a few games this year already and would have won more games during the Ewing era.

Fix 1 and 2, we are annual contenders in college basketball.

Agree for the most part with this. The pieces do not fit. Not enough shooters on offense and not enough reliable ballhandlers who are ready to distribute first. But there is no lack of height at the 5, though clearly the athleticism is not there for two of the three 5s on the team. With respect to the 4 position, we have tried all year and failed to find a fix for players who are tweeners and for the most part offensively challenged. Rice has the raw numbers but is so streaky that the numbers are very misleading. He also is lost on defense much of the time. Holloway is the ultimate tweener--too small for the 4 and lacking a handle of the ability to create as the 3 and too slow to guard the perimeter. He is a high energy player who is perfect as a rotation player off the bench but on this team he has to start and play big minutes. Aminu is fine at the 2/3 but still very raw and learning the game. His shot is still not good and his decision-making a work in progress. He would truly benefit from another year to develop his talent on both ends of the court. I hope that year is with the Hoyas. I like Tyler's future but he needs time and experience to get where I think he will be in 3 years. Harris is maddening, showing flashes of what he can be as a PG who focuses on creating the offense and then constantly falling back into a pattern of ball dominance and trying to be a scoring guard, albeit one with a low shooting percentage. Defense is and will always be a problem I fear for Ewing. He is locked into his approach and even when the evidence is that a pressure approach will be a significant improvement he is very reluctant to use it. Certainly the lack of depth has something to do with that decision, but lack of depth brings us right back to roster construction.

[kghoya]

Feb 3, 2022 5:38:38 GMT -5 the_way said:

1a) Recruiting.

1b) GM/roster construction - making sure all the pieces fit.

JT2 was a master of roster construction. JTIII struggled with it. Ewing is cognizant of matchup-problems with personnel, but evaluating/bringing the guys in from the high school level has been a challenge in filling needs. He has done well with graduate-transfers/transfers though.

This current group has a lack of athleticism and height and defensive prowess at the 3,4, and 5 positions. As a result, we have tweeners trying to play against the trees inside. Opponents scoring at will inside the paint. Alley-oop dunks against us. Our bigs getting their shot and dunk attempts blocked.

We have 1 primary ball-handler at guard. The rest of our "guards" are swing-guys, not necessarily deft ballhandlers. So that puts an enormous pressure on the PG to play a substantial amount of minutes.


2) Coaching half-court defense

Wide-open 3's and guys having career nights against us behind the arc.


These are the main source of the problems. Fix 2 and we can live with the personnel deficits. Fix 2 and we would have won a few games this year already and would have won more games during the Ewing era.

Fix 1 and 2, we are annual contenders in college basketball.

We have more than enough data points to know that this staff can't fix 2