Jesuit Tournament

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

This appeared in V-Mail - an Espn.com section that should usually be skipped, but it bring up an interesting issue.

Q: With the emergence in the past few years of many Jesuit schools (Marquette, St. Joseph's, Gonzaga, Xavier and Boston College), do you think there is any chance of maybe eight schools -- including these five, along with Georgetown, Holy Cross and Creighton -- being able to get together to form an annual eight-game tournament at the beginning of the season? -- Brendan Boyce (Wellesley, Mass.)

VITALE -- I don't see that happening in the future with the Jesuit schools. Right now, I think those schools are content competing in their quality leagues. With so many league games and other in-season tournament commitments, I think it would be difficult to pull that off.

What do you all think?

I think it would be a fun tournament with a lot of quality teams - although it would have to be planned well in advance.

[Deleted]

Vitale is so stupid. Don't see it happening in the future because of other in-season tournament commmitments? Do you think they've got their schedules wrapped up for the next 20 years, DICK? I agree its not likely to happen, but I wouldn't slam the door on it like he is.

[HoyaLawya]

Creighton was putting out feelers about starting up such a tournament in the past year or so. I heard that the idea was received well by most ADs at the Jesuit schools having D1 basketball, with only Marquette and BC acting a little cool to the idea.

Main thing to figure out is the rotation for each year, if it's a tournament which seeks exempt status and is organized around the idea of playing to a championship. That's because many of the Jesuit schools are within the same conference and wouldn't want to meet up in an ooc setting.

Big East is Jesuit-rich.

A-10 with the addition of St. Louis is getting that way.

WCC's 8 members consist of 7 Catholic colleges + Pepperdine (Church of Christ). Of the 7, I know that 4 are Jesuit.

Vitale's long-ago stint at Detroit Mercy does not make him a "Jesuit expert" ...... he just thinks he is.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

I think it sounds like a good idea and just as long as the quality of teams is there, it could be an interesting tourney.

[the_way]

If you read between the lines in what Vitale is saying, he is completely right. Only a small, minute portion of this country would be interested in those games. ESPN or CBS wouldn't air a tournament llike that. I think it is a dumb idea. It would only inerest people to those who attend those schools. It wouldn't really be beneficial to our program. We can't get into the business of playing "wouldn't it be nice or wouldn't it be really cool" type games. Those sentiments are for the Crieghton's, Holy Cross' and St. Joe's of the world. We got to think long-term here. It is of no benefit for us to play in such a tournament. We would be the biggest name in that tournament. Being the best Jesuit basketball playing school means nothing in terms of how we stack against the high-ranks of the Big East or high-ranks NCAA tournament teams. That is the goal at hand.

[DFW HOYA]

It would be a great idea. Rotate it around the nation (e.g., Washington, St. Louis, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and rotate among teams each year: (Georgetown, Gonzaga, Creighton, and Fordham one year, BC, Santa Clara, Loyola Marymount and St. Peter's in year 2, Marquette, Loyola-Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit in year 3, St. Joe's, Fairfield, Holy Cross and Xavier in year 4.) Proceeds could go to Catholic Charities.

Whether ESPN or CBS wants to carry it is immaterial. As they say, these schools answer to a higher authority.

[the_way]

dfw said:

It would be a great idea. Rotate it around the nation (e.g., Washington, St. Louis, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and rotate among teams each year: (Georgetown, Gonzaga, Creighton, and Fordham one year, BC, Santa Clara, Loyola Marymount and St. Peter's in year 2, Marquette, Loyola-Chicago, St. Louis and Detroit in year 3, St. Joe's, Fairfield, Holy Cross and Xavier in year 4.) Proceeds could go to Catholic Charities.

Whether ESPN or CBS wants to carry it is immaterial. As they say, these schools answer to a higher authority.

Oh please! And all the other schools are a bunch of heathens, right? Just so you know, being the best Jesuit or local school doesn't make you money, i.e., you won't be seeing any "facility upgrades" you so desperately yearn for almost everytime you make a post. Any University, Jesuit or otherwise is in the business of making money. You can slice it and dice it all you want. As JT2 once said, "you don't have a basketball program, unless you make money". These little Jesuit tournaments won't do us any good. That is why I said "we need to think long-term" and get the big picture.

[kghoya]

any excuse to play quality out of conference opponents is a good one

it doesnt matter what you call it as long as you arent playing a meac schedule...oh or the big south of course

local tournament works...md or gw

jesuit tournament works...bc, st joes gonzaga

or just a plain strong ooc schedule...duke, illinois, michigan

its all the same....we just need to make sure we do so every year in order to have the best possible chances of making the ncaa tournament

[TBird41]

I know I'd enjoy watching a Jesuit tournament. And I think ESPN or CBS would pick up a Gonzaga-Georgetown championship game. And it's not like it could be any worse than the Sun Bowl tournament we're playing in. I'd rather play an average rpi Jesuit school than Colgate any year. Plus, if we won that, we would have the sole rights to chant "God's on our side".

[Deleted]

You're SO right, _way. Since only a small portion of the country would care, there's NOOOOO reason to do this. Thank GOD we've got Colgate and UTEP in the Sun Bowl tourney. Lord knows all of America is going to be glued to the TV for those!!

Your argument blows.

[AvantGuardHoya]

I agree with you, DFW. You reflected on this and have come up with what I consider a reasonable approach. And I do feel there'd be sufficient interest if this idea was properly nurtured.

A two year trial certainly strikes me as possible. Let's say year one is GU/Holy Cross/St. Joe's/Fordham in MSG. Year two is Marquette/Xavier/St. Louis/Loyola-Chi in the United Center. I think those events could sell out and there would be TV interest, too.

I don't see the schools playing as having narrow fan interest, nor do I see the idea as lacking $$$ potential. I hope it does happen.

[AvantGuardHoya]

dfw said:

Whether ESPN or CBS wants to carry it is immaterial. As they say, these schools answer to a higher authority.

Oh, I forgot to add -- I liked your "higher authority" quip, too!

[the_way]

buffalohoya said:

You're SO right, _way. Since only a small portion of the country would care, there's NOOOOO reason to do this. Thank GOD we've got Colgate and UTEP in the Sun Bowl tourney. Lord knows all of America is going to be glued to the TV for those!!

Your argument blows.

Again, you can't see the forrest from the trees. A balanced, "national", and "non-exclusive" OOC schedule is what we need. We have that this year. I'm glad JTIII is making our OOC schedule because if it were up to some of you guys, between local and Jesuit tournaments, Georgetown would wind up being bottom feeder for the Big East and would be reduced down to the size of George Mason or GW in terms of prominence and appeal, and money-earning potential. You got to look at the bigger picture. The world is bigger than Jesuit schools and the D.C. metropolitan area. You have to step out of your comfort zone in order to live comfortably.

[Deleted]

How is a tournament with BC and Gonzaga and Xavier and St. John's NOT national? How is it NOT balanced?

While you're at it, explain to us how playing Colgate and UTEP instead IS national and DOES raise our "prominence and appeal, and money-earning potential." I think a Jesuit tourney does more for us than the freaking Sun Belt tourney which won't even make SportsCenter, guaranteed. Not to mention, putting the Jesuit tourney in a big East coast city guarantees sell-outs and more loot for the schools participating, and increases the likelihood of TV participation. You think playing a few games in freakin' El Paso is going to do our "prominence and appeal, and money-earning potential" any good? You're delusional if that's what you think.

Maybe for once, YOU need to step out of your comfort zone, _way. Nobody is saying III has put together a bad schedule. In fact, I think 99.99% of the board LOVES our schedule this year. But there is ZERO way you can tell me a tourney with the likes of 'Zaga, BC and other Jesuit schools is somehow worse for GU than the Sun Belt tournament. Go ahead and try.

[TBird41]

theway said:

buffalohoya said:

You're SO right, _way. Since only a small portion of the country would care, there's NOOOOO reason to do this. Thank GOD we've got Colgate and UTEP in the Sun Bowl tourney. Lord knows all of America is going to be glued to the TV for those!!

Your argument blows.

Again, you can't see the forrest from the trees. A balanced, "national", and "non-exclusive" OOC schedule is what we need. We have that this year. I'm glad JTIII is making our OOC schedule because if it were up to some of you guys, between local and Jesuit tournaments, Georgetown would wind up being bottom feeder for the Big East and would be reduced down to the size of George Mason or GW in terms of prominence and appeal, and money-earning potential. You got to look at the bigger picture. The world is bigger than Jesuit schools and the D.C. metropolitan area. You have to step out of your comfort zone in order to live comfortably.

You realize that playing in the Sun Bowl tournament gets us LESS nat'l exposure than playing in a Jesuit tournament would. You'd rather play Colgete/UTEP than Zaga/Xavier? Or St. Joe's/Fordham? If anything, the Sun Bowl is beneath us. What the hell do we need UTEP or Colgate for? I mean, UTEP hasn't done squat since beating Kentucky and everyone knows the Patriot league is horrible when it comes to basketball.

[thanks Buff--let's just say last night included an hour of dancing in the fountain and leave it at that]

[Deleted]

(TBird... you mean Patriot League, right?)

[the_way]

Again, like I said before, people cannot see the forrest from the trees. We are not dealing with emotions here guys, okay. Did those words out of my mouth say: "the sun belt conference would be a bigger tournament than the Jesuit conference". NO I did not. What I said was we need a "balanced, national, and non-eclusive If you think a Jesuit School tournament has national interest, you are sadly mistaken.

[TBird41]

theway said:

Again, like I said before, people cannot see the forrest from the trees. We are not dealing with emotions here guys, okay. Did those words out of my mouth say: "the sun belt conference would be a bigger tournament than the Jesuit conference". NO I did not. What I said was we need a "balanced, national, and non-eclusive If you think a Jesuit School tournament has national interest, you are sadly mistaken.

Which has more national interest-- a Jesuit tournament or the Sun Bowl tournament? I'd go with the former, thereby increasing our national exposure. And the only thing we'd be replacing w/ the Jesuit tournament is the Sun Bowl tournament. It's not the preseason NIT (is that the most prestigious in season tournament? It's the only one I can think of that's in the continental US) , but it'd still be better than what we have.

[Deleted]

No, _way, but you did say: "A balanced, "national", and "non-exclusive" OOC schedule is what we need. We have that this year." I think the only point being made is that participation in a Jesuit tourney like the one discussed here sometime in the future INCREASES balance, national exposure and money-making capabilities, which we all know you crave so badly by now. I don't see anyone dealing with emotions, I see people suggesting a way to up GU's national exposure a bit, boost the RPI if possible, get a little cash for the coffers, and so on.

Outside of the Preseason NIT, name me one pre- or in-season tournament that truly has national interest. Everything you claim G'Town needs that somehow only you can see, a Jesuit tournament would give us: sell-outs that generate money, more national exposure than any other tournament we could play in, patsies AND good teams... truly balanced, national and non-exclusive. I personally don't like in-season tournaments and I'd rather we schedule two games against Kentucky and Stanford instead, but if we're going to play in one of these tournaments and its not the P-NIT, then lets get something people can get excited about AS WELL AS generate some positives for the program. I fail to see how the Sun Bowl Tourney does either.

[the_way]

buffalohoya said:

No, _way, but you did say: "A balanced, "national", and "non-exclusive" OOC schedule is what we need. We have that this year." I think the only point being made is that participation in a Jesuit tourney like the one discussed here sometime in the future INCREASES balance, national exposure and money-making capabilities, which we all know you crave so badly by now. I don't see anyone dealing with emotions, I see people suggesting a way to up GU's national exposure a bit, boost the RPI if possible, get a little cash for the coffers, and so on.

Outside of the Preseason NIT, name me one pre- or in-season tournament that truly has national interest. Everything you claim G'Town needs that somehow only you can see, a Jesuit tournament would give us: sell-outs that generate money, more national exposure than any other tournament we could play in, patsies AND good teams... truly balanced, national and non-exclusive. I personally don't like in-season tournaments and I'd rather we schedule two games against Kentucky and Stanford instead, but if we're going to play in one of these tournaments and its not the P-NIT, then lets get something people can get excited about AS WELL AS generate some positives for the program. I fail to see how the Sun Bowl Tourney does either.

Sun Bowl vs. Jesuit is not my argument. My argument is that a Jesuit school tournament is of interest to those who interested in seeing a Jesuit School tournament, which is a very small group. The average Joe Schmoe basketball fan does not care about seeing Georgetown playing Gonzaga, Crieghton, St. Joe's, Xavier, or Holy Cross. Which of these Jesuit schools are big time programs or have as much prestige as Georgetown. NONE. You ask any recruit what schools they want to go school. I guarantee Creighton, St. Joe's, Xavier, or Holy Cross won't be in there top 50 schools mentioned. And where will these sell-outs be for these games. Not MSG, not in MCI center.That is where the money is. It would sell-out arenas the size of McDonough, or small-scale arenas. You fail to to see the bigger picture. That is what Dick Vitale was talking about. He didn't come out in say it, but he knows nobody cares about a Jesuit tournament, including the coaches who are trying to win conference and NCAA titles, not local or Jesuit school titles.