EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 6, 2020 10:16:25 GMT -5
Those of us old enough well remember hearing the news the Allied forces had invaded France. The Normandy invasion was long awaited but few of us understood the enormous loss of life that would accompany that first step in toppling Hitler. I thank those who survived the long battles ahead and offer silent prayers for those who fell.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 6, 2020 10:35:46 GMT -5
And they were fighting real live fascists. Wonder if the Antifa crowd can take a knee today to remember the people that secured the freedoms they enjoy?
Or maybe just refrain from defacing their monument?
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 6, 2020 11:45:01 GMT -5
And they were fighting real live fascists. Wonder if the Antifa crowd can take a knee today to remember the people that secured the freedoms they enjoy? Or maybe just refrain from defacing their monument? Fighting fascism is just as vital today as it was back then. I just don’t know that many expected the fight to be at home this time. And, make no mistake, the president you voted for and continue to support has fascist tendencies and would like nothing more than to reshape our government into something that far more resembles 1930s Germany, Italy, and Spain than the US government that we’ve long taken for granted.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 6, 2020 11:47:08 GMT -5
And they were fighting real live fascists. Wonder if the Antifa crowd can take a knee today to remember the people that secured the freedoms they enjoy? Or maybe just refrain from defacing their monument? Fighting fascism is just as vital today as it was back then. I just don’t know that many expected the fight to be at home this time. And, make no mistake, the president you voted for and continue to support has fascist tendencies and would like nothing more than to reshape our government into something that far more resembles 1930s Germany, Italy, and Spain than the US government that we’ve long taken for granted. So that’s a no...
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 6, 2020 11:55:37 GMT -5
Fighting fascism is just as vital today as it was back then. I just don’t know that many expected the fight to be at home this time. And, make no mistake, the president you voted for and continue to support has fascist tendencies and would like nothing more than to reshape our government into something that far more resembles 1930s Germany, Italy, and Spain than the US government that we’ve long taken for granted. So that’s a no... The whole point of securing those freedoms was 1) keep a fascism from coming here and 2) have the ability to continue to fight for freedoms. Stopping the fight now against a very real and present threat would be contrary to all those guys fought for.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 6, 2020 12:03:24 GMT -5
The whole point of securing those freedoms was 1) keep a fascism from coming here and 2) have the ability to continue to fight for freedoms. Stopping the fight now against a very real and present threat would be contrary to all those guys fought for. And defacing the monument to those who saved the world Helps how?
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 6, 2020 12:08:55 GMT -5
The whole point of securing those freedoms was 1) keep a fascism from coming here and 2) have the ability to continue to fight for freedoms. Stopping the fight now against a very real and present threat would be contrary to all those guys fought for. And defacing the monument to those who saved the world Helps how? Sure, if you were only talking about defacing a monument, I’d agree with you. But you’re not.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 6, 2020 12:14:20 GMT -5
And defacing the monument to those who saved the world Helps how? Sure, if you were only talking about defacing a monument, I’d agree with you. But you’re not. I asked whether ANTIFA (not the large majority of protestors) would take a knee to honor DDay and refrain from defacing monuments. The rest is your own projection Junior.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Jun 6, 2020 12:30:50 GMT -5
Ed makes thread to honor WW2 veterans Elvado trolls and defaces it to try to score political points Elvado is what he argues against
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 6, 2020 12:32:17 GMT -5
Ed makes thread to honor WW2 veterans Elvado trolls and defaces it to try to score political points Elvado is what he argues against Another no.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Jun 6, 2020 12:42:36 GMT -5
Sure, if you were only talking about defacing a monument, I’d agree with you. But you’re not. I asked whether ANTIFA (not the large majority of protestors) would take a knee to honor DDay and refrain from defacing monuments. The rest is your own projection Junior. Actually, you said: And they were fighting real live fascists. Wonder if the Antifa crowd can take a knee today to remember the people that secured the freedoms they enjoy? Or maybe just refrain from defacing their monument? You suggested they “take a knee” or “refrain from defacing monuments.” If it was just a request to leave the memorial alone, I’d totally agree with you. But, it was not. You want these people to be silent probably because it makes you uncomfortable to see protests against your very own fascist preferences.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 6, 2020 12:46:00 GMT -5
I asked whether ANTIFA (not the large majority of protestors) would take a knee to honor DDay and refrain from defacing monuments. The rest is your own projection Junior. Actually, you said: And they were fighting real live fascists. Wonder if the Antifa crowd can take a knee today to remember the people that secured the freedoms they enjoy? Or maybe just refrain from defacing their monument? You suggested they “take a knee” or “refrain from defacing monuments.” If it was just a request to leave the memorial alone, I’d totally agree with you. But, it was not. You want these people to be silent probably because it makes you uncomfortable to see protests against your very own fascist preferences. I asked if the Antifa crowd.... Read complete sentences; it may help you comprehend.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Jun 6, 2020 12:57:04 GMT -5
And they were fighting real live fascists. Wonder if the Antifa crowd can take a knee today to remember the people that secured the freedoms they enjoy? Or maybe just refrain from defacing their monument? Fighting fascism is just as vital today as it was back then. I just don’t know that many expected the fight to be at home this time. And, make no mistake, the president you voted for and continue to support has fascist tendencies and would like nothing more than to reshape our government into something that far more resembles 1930s Germany, Italy, and Spain than the US government that we’ve long taken for granted. How little you understand the Germany, Italy, and Spain of that era.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 6, 2020 13:10:17 GMT -5
My father was not at D-Day but in "The Forgotten Campaign" and the Battle of the Colmar pocket. No one I know supports or condones the defacing of the WWII Memorial. A volunteer’s photo selection from the National Archives shows the Normandy landing and its aftermath. www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/06/d-day-photos-remembrance/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_retrop-dday-845am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_retrop-dday-845am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ansRecommended reading: To the American reader, references to Vichy France, East Germany, fascists, and Communists may seem over-the-top, even ludicrous. But dig a little deeper, and the analogy makes sense. The point is not to compare Trump to Hitler or Stalin; the point is to compare the experiences of high-ranking members of the American Republican Party, especially those who work most closely with the White House, to the experiences of Frenchmen in 1940, or of East Germans in 1945, or of Czesław Miłosz in 1947. These are experiences of people who are forced to accept an alien ideology or a set of values that are in sharp conflict with their own. www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Jun 6, 2020 14:17:59 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so quick to label the desecration of a World War II memorial as the work of "the antifa crowd". Sad reality is that there are operatives at work perpetrating a LOT of what has been attributed to protesters during the recent demonstrations. In today's internet age, once an allegation is made it grows legs and gets spread like it's a fact.
There has been an ongoing, organized effort to undermine the Black Lives Matter movement. BLM is a nonviolent cause that rubs certain people the wrong way. As a consequence some will do and support whatever they can to defeat it. Fact.
BTW, are you familiar with Cointelpro...?
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 6, 2020 14:31:41 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so quick to label the desecration of a World War II memorial as the work of "the antifa crowd". Sad reality is that there are operatives at work perpetrating a LOT of what has been attributed to protesters during the recent demonstrations. In today's internet age, once an allegation is made it grows legs and gets spread like it's a fact. There has been an ongoing, organized effort to undermine the Black Lives Matter movement. BLM is a nonviolent cause that rubs certain people the wrong way. As a consequence some will do and support whatever they can to defeat it. Fact. BTW, are you familiar with Cointelpro...? Avant, my first DOJ office back in 1984 defended FBI agents in the last of the COINTELPRO lawsuits brought under a Bivens theory of liability (money damages for violation of constitutional torts agsinst individual federal defendants - the US has never waived sovereign immunity for such torts for money damages). It involved an FBI dirty tricks campaign to falsely spread rumors that certain black "activists" were actually FBI informants at Tougaloo College in Mississippi. We secured a jury verduct in our favor. The doctrine of qualified immunity shielded individual federal defendants from most suits. The current SCT appears ready to jettison that defense since both Justice Thomas and Justice Sotomayor agree that the defense has gone too far. It's possible that white supremacist or right wing groups may be involved to damage the BLM movement. amp-rgj-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.rgj.com/amp/3139032001?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15914720346697&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rgj.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2F2020%2F06%2F03%2F3-held-terror-charges-spark-violence-las-vegas-protests%2F3139032001%2F
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DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by DallasHoya on Jun 6, 2020 19:22:06 GMT -5
My father was not at D-Day but in "The Forgotten Campaign" and the Battle of the Colmar pocket. No one I know supports or condones the defacing of the WWII Memorial. A volunteer’s photo selection from the National Archives shows the Normandy landing and its aftermath. www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/06/06/d-day-photos-remembrance/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_retrop-dday-845am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans&itid=hp_hp-more-top-stories_retrop-dday-845am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ansRecommended reading: To the American reader, references to Vichy France, East Germany, fascists, and Communists may seem over-the-top, even ludicrous. But dig a little deeper, and the analogy makes sense. The point is not to compare Trump to Hitler or Stalin; the point is to compare the experiences of high-ranking members of the American Republican Party, especially those who work most closely with the White House, to the experiences of Frenchmen in 1940, or of East Germans in 1945, or of Czesław Miłosz in 1947. These are experiences of people who are forced to accept an alien ideology or a set of values that are in sharp conflict with their own. www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/My father was not at d-day either but fought in the battle of Saint Lo shortly thereafter. Not intended to be a comment on our current situation - but sometimes we need to be grateful for how much better we have it. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saint-L%C3%B4
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 6, 2020 19:33:57 GMT -5
Agreed. My father lost his dad at 10 and was oldest son in a family of six growing up in Buffalo, NY. Attended Vo-Tech high school before being drafted. He basically worked full time since age ten and only went to college because of the GI Bill. oil
Despite his WWII service he could not get a job with the FBI because of Hoover's discriminatory hiring practices. He couldn't buy a house in Virginia because of restrictive covenants. I remember not being able to get hotel rooms in the South when he'd take us on summer vacations from SF to Florida in the 1960s. His federal service began in WWII and effectively ended when he was choppered off the US Embassy roof in Saigon on April 30. 1975, retiring two years later.
So yes, we've had it better but that is not guaranteed to last.
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Jun 6, 2020 19:39:41 GMT -5
Agreed. My father lost his dad at 10 and was oldest son in a family of six growing up in Buffalo, NY. Attended Vo-Tech high school before being drafted. He basically worked full time since age ten and only went to college because of the GI Bill. oil Despite his WWII service he could not get a job with the FBI because of Hoover's discriminatory hiring practices. He couldn't buy a house in Virginia because of restrictive covenants. I remember not being able to get hotel rooms in the South when he'd take us on summer vacations from SF to Florida in the 1960s. His federal service began in WWII and effectively ended when he was choppered off the US Embassy roof in Saigon on April 30. 1975, retiring two years later. So yes, we've had it better but that is not guaranteed to last. Interesting - both my father (and I) grew up in Buffalo as well. Any opinion (yours or maybe your father’s) on the accuracy of Frank Snepp’s Decent Interval on the last days of Saigon?
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Jun 6, 2020 20:07:09 GMT -5
Agreed. My father lost his dad at 10 and was oldest son in a family of six growing up in Buffalo, NY. Attended Vo-Tech high school before being drafted. He basically worked full time since age ten and only went to college because of the GI Bill. oil Despite his WWII service he could not get a job with the FBI because of Hoover's discriminatory hiring practices. He couldn't buy a house in Virginia because of restrictive covenants. I remember not being able to get hotel rooms in the South when he'd take us on summer vacations from SF to Florida in the 1960s. His federal service began in WWII and effectively ended when he was choppered off the US Embassy roof in Saigon on April 30. 1975, retiring two years later. So yes, we've had it better but that is not guaranteed to last. Interesting - both my father (and I) grew up in Buffalo as well. Any opinion (yours or maybe your father’s) on the accuracy of Frank Snepp’s Decent Interval on the last days of Saigon? My father went to the University of Buffalo, a German major as he spent 3(?) years as part of the occupation force and learned the language. He worked with Frank Snepp. I have my father's annotated copy of the book (he's in it not by name but identified only by a vague description). Generally, a correct history setting aside Snepp's narcissism. My father was a Cold Warrior, a Republican, and he didn't believe in cutting and running. He rolled into Berlin victorious in WWII and at the zenith of American power in 20th century. It disgusted him that the Agency and USG couldn't honor our promise to evacuate the local personnel when Saigon fell, the nadir of American power. One of the last things he did was distribute US dollars to his "locals" with an Agency number to call if they survived and somehow got out of Vietnam. My junior year at Georgetown we had one of his "locals" and her family living in the basement of our house as we had sponsored them out of Indiantown Gap, PA, relocation camp. When he retired, we had to persuade him to attend his own retirement ceremony to receive the Career Intelligence Medal from DCI William Colby. He was quite bitter about the way that war ended. I've read many books about the evacuation and there is an excellent film about it, "The Last Days of Saigon" which has some excellent interviews of some of the last folks out. www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/lastdays/By sheer coicidence. I was part of the DOJ defense team when the US was sued over the tragic Operation Babylift C-5A crash before the fall of Saigon. I also went back to Buffalo when I defended the US in an environmental law suit arising out of contamination at the Lake Ontario Ordinance Works. PS I visited Alsace-Lorraine four years ago where my father fought and visited the American Cemetary in Epinal. He was in the 16th Ordinance Maintenance Company, Third Army. My plans to visit Normandy this summer were scuttled by the pandemic. Your father must have been one tough guy to have fought at Saint-Lo.
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