PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 7:41:20 GMT -5
Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 12, 2005 7:41:20 GMT -5
1. billy hunter is on the record as saying the age limit said it was racist. but agreed to it as part of a negotiation.
2. as for the jobs thing, its not significant that other black players are advantaged by it. its that it institutes an arbitrary inequitable rule relieving the white owners/gms from making a risky decision at the expense of the young black players.
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HoyaNCCT
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
We will remind them.
Posts: 685
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 8:35:43 GMT -5
Post by HoyaNCCT on Jul 12, 2005 8:35:43 GMT -5
racist?!?
first of al since when does race = age?
second of all, lets look at at the numbers. How many draft entries over the past few years have their been under the age limit? What race were they, predominantly? White. So unless they are implying that the NBA is racist against Eastern European White kids, I have to disagree.
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hoyaboy1
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,346
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 9:28:39 GMT -5
Post by hoyaboy1 on Jul 12, 2005 9:28:39 GMT -5
1. billy hunter is on the record as saying the age limit said it was racist. but agreed to it as part of a negotiation. 2. as for the jobs thing, its not significant that other black players are advantaged by it. its that it institutes an arbitrary inequitable rule relieving the white owners/gms from making a risky decision at the expense of the young black players. Point 2 is absurd. By the same logic not having the age limit is racist since it forces old black players out of work. If anything this discriminates against youth, not race.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 9:49:15 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 12, 2005 9:49:15 GMT -5
2. yes (but in some cases the baseball minor league contracts are comparable). my point is that money should not be the reason to justify discrimination. just because its "a lot more money" doesnt make it ok. baseball found a different solution. so should the nba. if taking kobe with the #1 pick looks like a good gamble, then do it. if it doesnt, then pick someone else. dont put up a blanket rules which excludes everyone, even those that are deserving. baseball didnt do it, neither should the nba. Just wanted to be clear. I don't think the age limit is right, but I also don't think racism (intentional or not) is a driving reason behind it.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 9:54:33 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 12, 2005 9:54:33 GMT -5
1. I think that the differences between the NBDL and the minor leagues are where your recourse to that example breaks down - high schoolers are frequently signed to contracts and shipped to the minor leagues - but they have a major league contract and they are not encumbered by an age limit. The NBDL has an age limit that is 1 year younger than the NBA's, so their solution is the worst of all possible worlds: there are two age limits and a player cannot get the financial security that he is seeking in playing professional basketball. This is a ludicrous argument. In every draft, there are one or two baseball players with "major league deals" and an ML deal means almost nothing. It does not guarantee much high pay, merely start the "option" clock ticking. In baseball, a HS player is guaranteed about $2MM. In basketball, a HS (before the age limit) is guaranteed $8-12MM. How can you not see the difference. And now, they go to prep for a year, or the NDBL for a year. Granted the millions aren't guaranteed, but they are still making money. Anyway, baseball has restrictions. US players (mostly white) can declare after high school, or if they go to a 4 year college, after their JUNIOR year. But international players, mostly black/latino, can sign at 16!!! Clearly racist versus whites.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 19:06:48 GMT -5
Post by EasyEd on Jul 12, 2005 19:06:48 GMT -5
I thought the thread was about Macklin.
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rkerby15
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 301
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 19:21:54 GMT -5
Post by rkerby15 on Jul 12, 2005 19:21:54 GMT -5
Thank you, I was waiting for that
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,861
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 20:01:52 GMT -5
Post by CTHoya08 on Jul 12, 2005 20:01:52 GMT -5
It was supposed to be about Macklin...
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Macklin
Jul 12, 2005 20:07:43 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 12, 2005 20:07:43 GMT -5
1. I think that the differences between the NBDL and the minor leagues are where your recourse to that example breaks down - high schoolers are frequently signed to contracts and shipped to the minor leagues - but they have a major league contract and they are not encumbered by an age limit. The NBDL has an age limit that is 1 year younger than the NBA's, so their solution is the worst of all possible worlds: there are two age limits and a player cannot get the financial security that he is seeking in playing professional basketball. This is a ludicrous argument. In every draft, there are one or two baseball players with "major league deals" and an ML deal means almost nothing. It does not guarantee much high pay, merely start the "option" clock ticking. In baseball, a HS player is guaranteed about $2MM. In basketball, a HS (before the age limit) is guaranteed $8-12MM. How can you not see the difference. And now, they go to prep for a year, or the NDBL for a year. Granted the millions aren't guaranteed, but they are still making money. Anyway, baseball has restrictions. US players (mostly white) can declare after high school, or if they go to a 4 year college, after their JUNIOR year. But international players, mostly black/latino, can sign at 16!!! Clearly racist versus whites. Sorry I hijacked the thread with a parenthetical comment that involved the "r" word. My point is that baseball players in the minor leagues get fundamentally different treatment than life in the NBDL. NBDL contracts are peanuts compared to the million dollar deals that minor league ball players get. NBDL players are also not attached to a particular team and hence are not being watched out for by any party that is interested in their success. Unlike the minor leagues where players are given big signing bonuses and multi-million dollar minor league deals and watched out for and groomed by a team with the goal of improving the major league franchise. Players in the NBDL are playing to prove that they can play in the NBA in general - they are paid less money, their future is less certain, and they have no one that is directly involved with them in the league that is interested in their success or failure. The point about the MLB draft being racist is very far outside of the scope of a conversation about the institution of an age limit in the NBA. The age limit discriminates on several levels (besides the hopefully obvious element of age discrimination) the age limit discriminates against a group of players who are overwhelmingly African-American by making them forego an $8-$16M salary and instead get a menial salary that belittles their attempt to turn professional in order to move out of what are often destitute economic circumstances.
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Macklin
Jul 13, 2005 7:34:53 GMT -5
Post by stafford72 on Jul 13, 2005 7:34:53 GMT -5
Baseball has 40 + rounds in its draft and most of the minor league players get 5 - figure bonuses to sign and earn relative peanuts. Still--they have a choice in signing or not and can be redrafted if they decline to sign--some win and some lose.
One of the biggest arguments for the NBA in trying to push more players to college for at least 2 yaars is marketing. Al of the TV and hype makes the better college player a household name. This comes at no expense to the NBA and name recognition helps sell tickets. This is over and above the additional seasoning, maturity, improvement, weight and strength gain developed. When Kwame Brown was the first selection, almost no one knew who he was or had seen him play. There was little excitement about his debut. Counter that with the Knicks drafting of Patrick and his debut. There are few high schoolers who get the notoriety of Labron James prior to college.
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Macklin
Jul 13, 2005 8:04:29 GMT -5
Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jul 13, 2005 8:04:29 GMT -5
What up with Macklin? Frankly I think the age limit should be higher and I think guys like Randolph Morris, Andruw Bynum & others would benefit because they'll realize when they get to college that they need a couple more years. Villaneuva should have stuck around at least another year and now I think he will simplly be an average NBA player at best throughout his career. Sure it may prevent people from the big payday, but let's be honest, how many of these guys don't make it to the league and would be much better off having a degree in hand for when they get dropped after a year and only have 600K to live on for the rest of their lives (I am talking about the D'Antonio Wingfield types here).
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Macklin
Jul 14, 2005 20:29:42 GMT -5
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 14, 2005 20:29:42 GMT -5
Macklin has gone on record saying that he would have gone to college with or without the age restriction. I think we should let him speak for himself instead of parroting the "conventional wisdom."
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Macklin
Jul 15, 2005 0:39:38 GMT -5
Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 15, 2005 0:39:38 GMT -5
If he is going to college like you say Jersey - are we still in the lead for him? Who has fallen off the pace?
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
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Macklin
Jul 15, 2005 7:28:49 GMT -5
Post by RBHoya on Jul 15, 2005 7:28:49 GMT -5
Also, is there any indication when his decision will be made? Will we know this summer, or is he going to make us sweat it out until fall?
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Macklin
Jul 15, 2005 12:18:37 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 15, 2005 12:18:37 GMT -5
Well he said the other day in an update he'd like to make his decision by the end of the Summer. Now take that with a grain of salt as recruiting takes many twists and turns. As of Monday--Macklin was quoted saying end of the summer for his decision.
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