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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 10:17:50 GMT -5
Really, I didn't know that. So Biden is in favor a back door Estate Tax? Wow!!! I am actually surprised and flabbergasted. I guess-what is the real difference between Biden and Warren/Sanders then? or Biden and Karl Marx?
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,813
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 26, 2019 10:24:57 GMT -5
The first 250K/500K is excluded from capital gains on real estate for anything but a short term sale. That's a huge amount, even in high appreciation areas. If a married couple bought their house for $250K and did incredibly well, selling it for $850K, they get taxed on $100K. Increasing their tax by 20K when they just made 600K in an instant doesn't seem like a catastrophe. Maybe even more to the point, through the recent tax reform's gutting of SALT, you've already mauled the people you're referring to (those whose primary wealth is their ownership of real estate in an area where real estate is costly). And, unlike a capital gains tax, you've done it on an annual basis, resulting in very real cash-flow related hardship, as opposed to reducing a one time huge inflow to a still large if smaller one. The capital gains tax kicks in only upon a sale, so it affects folks far less frequently. I have no issue with the SALT reform by the way. But as someone affected by it negatively, I can tell you that it has a much larger impact on me than would a capital gains increase. After just a few years, the net effect is larger. Put back SALT and increase the capital gains is a big win for me and my neighbors. Biden is making no such exclusion of 250k or 500k. So yes, in a one time transaction consummating 20-25 years of appreciation, 46% of the gain will go to Uncle Joe. In your example about $275,000 is lost to taxes. But wouldn't the rules of how the tax is applied remain the same even when the actual number increases or decreases?
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 10:28:36 GMT -5
Not for one second in a Democratic Congress. Look at what the Democrat House just did on second generation IRAs taxing them over 10 years instead of the life of recipient. Hopefully, this will die in the Senate.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Aug 26, 2019 10:36:09 GMT -5
Does it concern you that we do not collect anywhere near enough revenue? Don’t you realize we need higher taxes?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Aug 26, 2019 10:36:44 GMT -5
Really, I didn't know that. So Biden is in favor a back door Estate Tax? Wow!!! I am actually surprised and flabbergasted. I guess-what is the real difference between Biden and Warren/Sanders then? or Biden and Karl Marx? I don't know all the details, but my understanding is he has proposed including the value of the would-be capital gain within the estate tax exemption. So, you get a stepped up basis so long as stepping up the basis doesn't take you over the nine-figure exemption amount. It's actually a pretty darned conservative idea overall because it removes the disincentive for nearly all people to sell capital while they're alive and therefore frees up capital and liquidity. Oh, and you didn't comment on the portion of my post on the real estate tax.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 10:40:25 GMT -5
Are the people in favor taxing second generation IRAs and apparently eliminating stepped up basis going to keep the $250/500 exclusion? That is not the direction they are going.
I hate the SALT deductibility rule as well but since it was coupled with eliminating the AMT for all but the very richest, the tradeoff works out ok.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Aug 26, 2019 10:46:16 GMT -5
You're now speculating by admission.
If you're so concerned about being able to leave your children and grandchildren with something approximating your net worth or standard of living, then maybe supporting the political party that has exploded the national debt during its last three administrations versus the one that did the opposite in its last two make less sense. Not to mention the costs that will become necessary to mitigate global warming.
(Yes, I know it went up a great deal under Obama but still less on a percentage basis than either Bush or where Trump is headed.)
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 11:12:34 GMT -5
I am agnostic about the National Debt. We have been able to increase it five fold in the last 15 or so years with not one single private sector investment project crowded out by government borrowing. The long bond was about 5% in 2007 and it is about 2% now. No real harm so far. The way to keep it manageable is make sure growth in GDP exceeds it and to avoid recessions and wars. I wish it wasn't there but it is a necessary component of public finance Ronald Reagan once said of the National Debt "we owe it to ourselves."
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,813
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 26, 2019 12:17:19 GMT -5
Not for one second in a Democratic Congress. Look at what the Democrat House just did on second generation IRAs taxing them over 10 years instead of the life of recipient. Hopefully, this will die in the Senate. The SECURE act passed by a 417-3 count in the House, that's kinda bipartisan, right? www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1994/actions05/23/2019 Passed/agreed to in House: On passage Passed by the Yeas and Nays: 417 - 3 (Roll no. 231).(text: CR H4124-4135) Seems like the pros outweigh the cons in the bill but by all means continue to troll us about issues that affect a small amount of more than likely very well off folks... money.usnews.com/money/retirement/iras/articles/what-is-the-secure-actTHE HOUSE OF Representatives passed the Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement Act on May 23, 2019. If the bill, which has more than 20 sections, passes the Senate and is signed by the president, its impact could lead to shifts in retirement savings and planning. “Many of the sections will only affect a small portion of the population, while others will affect all workers and retirees,” says Scott Michalek, a senior financial advisor at Wescott Financial Advisory Group in Philadelphia.
If the SECURE Act passes into law, you can expect:
* More part-time workers to have the opportunity to participate in a 401(k) plan. * The chance to contribute to traditional IRAs for as long as desired. *The minimum distribution age for retirement accounts to shift from 70 1/2 to 72 years old. * Penalty-free withdrawals to be allowed for special circumstances. * A requirement to withdraw from inherited retirement accounts within 10 years.
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DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,630
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Post by DallasHoya on Aug 26, 2019 12:17:43 GMT -5
Does it concern you that we do not collect anywhere near enough revenue? Don’t you realize we need higher taxes? Federal tax revenues listed below. It's never enough for you, is it? Maybe it just might be the spending, by both parties? FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted. FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated. FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion. FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion. FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion. FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion. FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion. FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion. FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion. FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion. FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion. FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion. FY 2008 - $2.52 trillion. FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion. FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion. FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion. FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion. FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion. FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion. FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
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Post by hoya9797 on Aug 26, 2019 12:32:42 GMT -5
Spending should be cut as well but there is definitely not enough revenue coming in and trump has made this situation much worse.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 12:36:40 GMT -5
Not for one second in a Democratic Congress. Look at what the Democrat House just did on second generation IRAs taxing them over 10 years instead of the life of recipient. Hopefully, this will die in the Senate. The SECURE act passed by a 417-3 count in the House, that's kinda bipartisan, right? www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1994/actions05/23/2019 Passed/agreed to in House: On passage Passed by the Yeas and Nays: 417 - 3 (Roll no. 231).(text: CR H4124-4135) Seems like the pros outweigh the cons in the bill but by all means continue to troll us about issues that affect a small amount of more than likely very well off folks... money.usnews.com/money/retirement/iras/articles/what-is-the-secure-actTHE HOUSE OF Representatives passed the Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement Act on May 23, 2019. If the bill, which has more than 20 sections, passes the Senate and is signed by the president, its impact could lead to shifts in retirement savings and planning. “Many of the sections will only affect a small portion of the population, while others will affect all workers and retirees,” says Scott Michalek, a senior financial advisor at Wescott Financial Advisory Group in Philadelphia.
If the SECURE Act passes into law, you can expect:
* More part-time workers to have the opportunity to participate in a 401(k) plan. * The chance to contribute to traditional IRAs for as long as desired. *The minimum distribution age for retirement accounts to shift from 70 1/2 to 72 years old. * Penalty-free withdrawals to be allowed for special circumstances. * A requirement to withdraw from inherited retirement accounts within 10 years.There has got to be something like 50 million traditional IRAs, so yes this is one of the provisions affecting the masses. Shame on the House Republicans too for voting for this.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,813
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 26, 2019 12:45:57 GMT -5
The SECURE act passed by a 417-3 count in the House, that's kinda bipartisan, right? www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1994/actions05/23/2019 Passed/agreed to in House: On passage Passed by the Yeas and Nays: 417 - 3 (Roll no. 231).(text: CR H4124-4135) Seems like the pros outweigh the cons in the bill but by all means continue to troll us about issues that affect a small amount of more than likely very well off folks... money.usnews.com/money/retirement/iras/articles/what-is-the-secure-actTHE HOUSE OF Representatives passed the Setting Every Community Up for Retirement Enhancement Act on May 23, 2019. If the bill, which has more than 20 sections, passes the Senate and is signed by the president, its impact could lead to shifts in retirement savings and planning. “Many of the sections will only affect a small portion of the population, while others will affect all workers and retirees,” says Scott Michalek, a senior financial advisor at Wescott Financial Advisory Group in Philadelphia.
If the SECURE Act passes into law, you can expect:
* More part-time workers to have the opportunity to participate in a 401(k) plan. * The chance to contribute to traditional IRAs for as long as desired. *The minimum distribution age for retirement accounts to shift from 70 1/2 to 72 years old. * Penalty-free withdrawals to be allowed for special circumstances. * A requirement to withdraw from inherited retirement accounts within 10 years.There has got to be something like 50 million traditional IRAs, so yes this is one of the provisions affecting the masses. Shame on the House Republicans too for voting for this. Be honest, you had no idea the vote on this bill was that lopsided did you? Of the 50 million you quote, how many are of the 2nd generation variety to which you originally referred?
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 12:53:36 GMT -5
Who were the 3? These are folks who actually read the bill end to end. They have a future as CPAs if the Congress gig crashes.
You are right I did not know it was that one-way.
Of the 50 million traditional IRAS-they are all going to die, so every one except some that may go to charity will be 2nd gen eventually.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,813
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 26, 2019 14:20:13 GMT -5
Who were the 3? These are folks who actually read the bill end to end. They have a future as CPAs if the Congress gig crashes. You are right I did not know it was that one-way. Of the 50 million traditional IRAS-they are all going to die, so every one except some that may go to charity will be 2nd gen eventually. I think it's safe to say that you haven't read the bill from end to end either but in this political climate, a bill that gets bipartisan support seems good to me...
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 27, 2019 13:14:34 GMT -5
Hate to break it to you, but this won’t resonate one iota with people who haven’t made up their minds already. For evidence, I could find exactly two whopping mentions of this - one from the Buffalo News, and one from Grover Norquist’s group, who is frankly a zealot when it comes to tax issues. On top of that, when only 11% of Americans pay the tax to begin with, and of those it’s widely paid by the uppermost classes, I don’t think there’s much of an argument, especially when the core question isn’t one of policy, but rather, does the candidate care about me and the issues I’m facing. The two whopping mentions have now become the lead story in today's Wall Street Journal front page. www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-emerging-tax-idea-look-beyond-income-target-wealth-11566916571?mod=hp_lead_pos5
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 27, 2019 13:18:47 GMT -5
If the 2020 Democrats win, I wonder what Tyson's Corner Mall will look like in about 5 years
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 27, 2019 13:35:58 GMT -5
Biden's plan in the article is full immediate capital gains taxation of all inherited assets with a top 39.9% rate. No exclusions. He effectively reinstates the estate tax at its highest rate ever. Even before the estate tax was liberalized around 1977 there was at least some protective exclusion for middle class and lower middle class people. Biden's new back door estate tax doesn't even have that.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,238
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Post by prhoya on Aug 27, 2019 13:40:27 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 27, 2019 13:41:37 GMT -5
If the 2020 Democrats win, I wonder what Tyson's Corner Mall will look like in about 5 years The outside won't be different, just with a lot of vacancies from the demise of major mall merchants like Sears, Bloomingdale's, Lord & Taylor, etc. When Macy's or JCPenney goes under, these spaces won't be filled. Shopping centers are an endangered species. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/22/mall-of-america-minnesota-retail-anniversary
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