|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 25, 2019 19:09:46 GMT -5
Joe Biden made the most incredible statement of the 2020 campaign this week when he endorsed the doubling of the capital gains tax to 39.9% from 20%. Can you imagine all the folks in their 50s who bought houses 20 years ago in say Woodlands Hills, CA, or Warren, NJ or Montgomery County PA that expected to pay 15, and at most 20% on their non-inflation adjusted gain after the capital gains exclusion of $500k (if Biden keeps it, he had no exception statement in his interview) who will now find out that will be paying double the rate.
I remember when Obama proposed taxing the appreciation of 529 plans for tuition and the firestorm that it set off in the suburbs, Jered Bernstein said that Democrats were "kicking the ball in their own goal" and the plan was soon scrapped.
If Biden doesn't pull back on this and call it a gaffe he just gave Trump the toehold he needs to win the high end suburbs that he lost to Hillary in 2016.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,314
|
Post by tashoya on Aug 25, 2019 19:40:06 GMT -5
Trump isn't winning CA or NJ.
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,473
|
Post by Elvado on Aug 25, 2019 19:44:09 GMT -5
Trump isn't winning CA or NJ. Nor did he last time. Pennsylvania on the other hand... If Biden meant it, he is not only tiptoeing into senility, he is an idiot.
|
|
|
Post by badgerhoya on Aug 25, 2019 20:24:30 GMT -5
Hate to break it to you, but this won’t resonate one iota with people who haven’t made up their minds already.
For evidence, I could find exactly two whopping mentions of this - one from the Buffalo News, and one from Grover Norquist’s group, who is frankly a zealot when it comes to tax issues. On top of that, when only 11% of Americans pay the tax to begin with, and of those it’s widely paid by the uppermost classes, I don’t think there’s much of an argument, especially when the core question isn’t one of policy, but rather, does the candidate care about me and the issues I’m facing.
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 7:12:52 GMT -5
I disagree. A candidate that will bring poverty to these people's old age and penury to their upper middle class grandchildren when they thought they were well fixed does not "care about me." That candidate actually cares to "destroy me". And by the way, by the time every one of my Northern Virginia neighbors gets a letter on this next October, Mark Warner may well be sent packing.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
|
Post by hoya9797 on Aug 26, 2019 7:31:57 GMT -5
I disagree. A candidate that will bring poverty to these people's old age and penury to their upper middle class grandchildren when they thought they were well fixed does not "care about me." That candidate actually cares to "destroy me". And by the way, by the time every one of my Northern Virginia neighbors gets a letter on this next October, Mark Warner may well be sent packing. Poverty?
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 7:46:33 GMT -5
Yes. The key difference between an upper middle class person and an upper class one is financial as opposed to real estate or more narrowly, primary residence wealth. When you attempt to confiscate through 40% federal and then 6% local taxes the housing wealth accumulation of a family, you are reducing them from a very solid to a precarious financial position. This would be especially true in the Chantillys, Burkes, Farifaxes and Alexeandrias of this state where the house is say 75%-80% and the 401 k another 15-20% of their assets. The Great Falls and McLean crowd are affected too but not as catastrophically.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
|
Post by hoya9797 on Aug 26, 2019 7:48:31 GMT -5
You apparently have no idea what poverty actually means or looks like.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 7:53:26 GMT -5
Biden may or may not be the nominee but this isn't going to lose him one vote... Just last week Trump was talking about how fun it would be to gut Medicare in his second term, meanwhile: 🏥40% of Americans can't afford a $400 emergency 💸75% live paycheck to paycheck 👴42% have less than $10,000 saved for retirement www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/donald-trump-republicans-federal-deficit
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 7:55:38 GMT -5
Wow, Biden actually has made an explicit declaration of war on the suburban upper middle class. Breathtaking. I wish I were in Vegas and could short Mark Warner futures.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 7:58:52 GMT -5
Hilarious....
Wow, Trump actually made an explicit declaration of war on retirees. Breathtaking,
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 8:46:07 GMT -5
Trump has never moved against Medicare. Medicaid yes. And where Biden's statement is an explicit public record statement, this is an unsourced story. Unsourced stories have no validity or credibility.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,438
|
Post by TC on Aug 26, 2019 9:21:37 GMT -5
Talking about tax rates while the other guy is talking about nuking hurricanes and buying Greenland is a win.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2019 9:21:42 GMT -5
If Biden wins the nomination it won't even be a blip on the radar. Keep dreaming...
This election will be about if you want 4 more years of Trump or not.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
|
Post by hoya9797 on Aug 26, 2019 9:46:02 GMT -5
I can’t get over the use of the word poverty here to describe these people who may have to make due with an $800K after tax gain rather than a $900K after tax gain on their homes. Who will think of these poor people?
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Aug 26, 2019 9:48:03 GMT -5
Yes. The key difference between an upper middle class person and an upper class one is financial as opposed to real estate or more narrowly, primary residence wealth. When you attempt to confiscate through 40% federal and then 6% local taxes the housing wealth accumulation of a family, you are reducing them from a very solid to a precarious financial position. This would be especially true in the Chantillys, Burkes, Farifaxes and Alexeandrias of this state where the house is say 75%-80% and the 401 k another 15-20% of their assets. The Great Falls and McLean crowd are affected too but not as catastrophically. The first 250K/500K is excluded from capital gains on real estate for anything but a short term sale. That's a huge amount, even in high appreciation areas. If a married couple bought their house for $250K and did incredibly well, selling it for $850K, they get taxed on $100K. Increasing their tax by 20K when they just made 600K in an instant doesn't seem like a catastrophe. Maybe even more to the point, through the recent tax reform's gutting of SALT, you've already mauled the people you're referring to (those whose primary wealth is their ownership of real estate in an area where real estate is costly). And, unlike a capital gains tax, you've done it on an annual basis, resulting in very real cash-flow related hardship, as opposed to reducing a one time huge inflow to a still large if smaller one. The capital gains tax kicks in only upon a sale, so it affects folks far less frequently. I have no issue with the SALT reform by the way. But as someone affected by it negatively, I can tell you that it has a much larger impact on me than would a capital gains increase. After just a few years, the net effect is larger. Put back SALT and increase the capital gains is a big win for me and my neighbors.
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 9:56:59 GMT -5
Yes. The key difference between an upper middle class person and an upper class one is financial as opposed to real estate or more narrowly, primary residence wealth. When you attempt to confiscate through 40% federal and then 6% local taxes the housing wealth accumulation of a family, you are reducing them from a very solid to a precarious financial position. This would be especially true in the Chantillys, Burkes, Farifaxes and Alexeandrias of this state where the house is say 75%-80% and the 401 k another 15-20% of their assets. The Great Falls and McLean crowd are affected too but not as catastrophically. The first 250K/500K is excluded from capital gains on real estate for anything but a short term sale. That's a huge amount, even in high appreciation areas. If a married couple bought their house for $250K and did incredibly well, selling it for $850K, they get taxed on $100K. Increasing their tax by 20K when they just made 600K in an instant doesn't seem like a catastrophe. Maybe even more to the point, through the recent tax reform's gutting of SALT, you've already mauled the people you're referring to (those whose primary wealth is their ownership of real estate in an area where real estate is costly). And, unlike a capital gains tax, you've done it on an annual basis, resulting in very real cash-flow related hardship, as opposed to reducing a one time huge inflow to a still large if smaller one. The capital gains tax kicks in only upon a sale, so it affects folks far less frequently. I have no issue with the SALT reform by the way. But as someone affected by it negatively, I can tell you that it has a much larger impact on me than would a capital gains increase. After just a few years, the net effect is larger. Put back SALT and increase the capital gains is a big win for me and my neighbors. Biden is making no such exclusion of 250k or 500k. So yes, in a one time transaction consummating 20-25 years of appreciation, 46% of the gain will go to Uncle Joe. In your example about $275,000 is lost to taxes.
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 10:01:46 GMT -5
Perhaps when Biden eventually does his "it was a gaffe" statement he will.
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Aug 26, 2019 10:07:52 GMT -5
The first 250K/500K is excluded from capital gains on real estate for anything but a short term sale. That's a huge amount, even in high appreciation areas. If a married couple bought their house for $250K and did incredibly well, selling it for $850K, they get taxed on $100K. Increasing their tax by 20K when they just made 600K in an instant doesn't seem like a catastrophe. Maybe even more to the point, through the recent tax reform's gutting of SALT, you've already mauled the people you're referring to (those whose primary wealth is their ownership of real estate in an area where real estate is costly). And, unlike a capital gains tax, you've done it on an annual basis, resulting in very real cash-flow related hardship, as opposed to reducing a one time huge inflow to a still large if smaller one. The capital gains tax kicks in only upon a sale, so it affects folks far less frequently. I have no issue with the SALT reform by the way. But as someone affected by it negatively, I can tell you that it has a much larger impact on me than would a capital gains increase. After just a few years, the net effect is larger. Put back SALT and increase the capital gains is a big win for me and my neighbors. Biden is making no such exclusion of 250k or 500k. So yes, in a one time transaction consummating 20-25 years of appreciation, 46% of the gain will go to Uncle Joe. In your example about $275,000 is lost to taxes. I've seen no indication that Biden would eliminate the real estate exclusion. I've seen him propose eliminating the step-up rule at death, but that's obviously a different animal.
|
|
|
Post by happyhoya1979 on Aug 26, 2019 10:10:08 GMT -5
Really, I didn't know that. So Biden is in favor of a back door Estate Tax? Wow!!! I am actually surprised and flabbergasted.
I guess-what is the real difference between Biden and Warren/Sanders then?
|
|