HoyaDr
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Post by HoyaDr on Dec 5, 2019 10:10:01 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. He did it in the middle of season though. I can't remember an recent instance of the best player of a potential NCAA tourney team quitting on his team like that. Please correct me though I haven't really done the research this is just off the top of my head
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Post by gatormcclusky on Dec 5, 2019 10:15:06 GMT -5
There can only be one alpha dog....and it clearly wasn't working with two ball dominant guys. That was the entire premise for this thread. Now that we only have one.....we looked a heck of a lot better. Big character win and Mac looks very comfortable in the role of alpha dog. Yeah baby!! You could have absolutely made it work, but the players have to want it to work. It’s clear one didn’t, and that’s a real problem when they are the pg. Bluntly, neither Mac nor James is good enough to not play within a team concept and still win. I’ve always called it the Chris Thomas effect, after the old Notre Dame pg. When you have someone insistent on being that ball dominant, their ceiling is the team’s ceiling. And that’s a problem unless that player is a Top 5 player. The jury still has a long time out to see the full effects of the loss of talent versus chemistry, etc. It’s easy to paint it as addition by subtraction after a big win, but it’s premature. But that said ... Painting this as an unsolvable conflict with no one at fault is inaccurate. A real PG and leader works to lead, to make teammates better ... not to make sure it’s about them. Tons of much more talented players than James and Mac have worked it out before. this exactly - Mackinjo could have absolutely worked out and been great had there been a willingness to work together and adapt to each other. Look at the way they fed off each other in those first couple of games at Kenner last year.
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Post by gatormcclusky on Dec 5, 2019 10:17:38 GMT -5
Touching the ball is very important. I think that’s why Mac shot so well last night. You need rhythm and feel. that's absolutely part of it - there were more passes ahead in transition off rebounds in the first half last night than there have been this whole season.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 5, 2019 10:27:24 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. He did it in the middle of season though. I can't remember an recent instance of the best player of a potential NCAA tourney team quitting on his team like that. Please correct me though I haven't really done the research this is just off the top of my head Your point about timing is very fair. Lots of kids transfer at the semester but this decision was unusual in timing before the last game. However, maybe his departure early is better for all concerned. The potential for this team was fairly high. The reality is that the team was grossly underperforming, fans were very unhappy with the product on the floor and the coaching staff was under fire for their inability to produce results equal to the talent on the team. IN that light, an unhappy Akinjo may have done everyone a favor by leaving sooner than later.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 5, 2019 10:28:42 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. I am not sure I agree. Was Mac ball dominant last night or was he just high usage? Why couldn’t James work with a high usage scorer unless he had a problem with not getting the shots or not getting the attention? Allen scored 15 with 5 assists last night, but getting his own shots was not his priority. Don’t get me wrong. Allen took 7 shots, but he was not looking for his shot on every possession. From my vantage point, Akinjo was more committed his own success than his teammates success...not realizing that he will be successful when his teammates are successful. There were times when Akinjo absolutely carried the team like in the 1st game of the year, but for the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts we needed a different mentality.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 5, 2019 10:45:37 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. I am not sure I agree. Was Mac ball dominant last night or was he just high usage? Why couldn’t James work with a high usage scorer unless he had a problem with not getting the shots or not getting the attention? Allen scored 15 with 5 assists last night, but getting his own shots was not his priority. Don’t get me wrong. Allen took 7 shots, but he was not looking for his shot on every possession. From my vantage point, Akinjo was more committed his own success than his teammates success...not realizing that he will be successful when his teammates are successful. There were times when Akinjo absolutely carried the team like in the 1st game of the year, but for the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts we needed a different mentality. I don't think he was overly ball dominant. I think you're right that he was high usage. The point, though, is that it was hard for both to be looking to score and looking to score in the same sort of way. It's possible to succeed with that, but it's hard. It may be that taking Mac out of the mix (instead of James) wouldn't have led to tremendous improvement because James would have been more ball dominant than Mac and Allen would have been less useful in that setting. Hard to know. I will say that BOTH of them would be far better off learning how to facilitate and picking spots more effectively. But I think that's frighteningly obvious
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 5, 2019 10:46:42 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. He did it in the middle of season though. I can't remember an recent instance of the best player of a potential NCAA tourney team quitting on his team like that. Please correct me though I haven't really done the research this is just off the top of my head Kenny Brunner?
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 5, 2019 11:39:47 GMT -5
I think Mac has had the green light offensively since the first day he stepped on campus, but that doesn't mean Coach Ewing lets him do whatever he wants. He still coaches Mac hard and when he takes bad shots and makes bad decisions he hears about it and/or takes a seat on the bench. It looks like Ewing wants him to constantly look for his offense, but to make the correct basketball play when a good shot is not there. It appeared that he sometimes felt he needed to make/force plays everytime he had the ball in his hands when Akinjo was the PG, because he wasn't sure when he would get his next opportunity. Now he knows he is going to touch the ball pretty much every possession he is in the game and hopefully that allows him to make better decisions. It takes a special type of player to maintain that aggressiveness and still be willing to take the coaching/criticism that he gets when he makes a mistake. I think Mac has grown as a player since last year and with this new expanded role he is going to have to play, I expect he will continue to grow. He will likely still take a few bad shots and try to force some plays that turn into turnovers, but if he learns and grows from those experiences he will reach his full potential. Don't know if this has been mentioned but Coach Ewing pulled McClung right after he pulled that 30 footer with 11 seconds left on that shot clock that ricochet off the back board. The TV camera's caught McClung going back to the bench and as he walked by Coach Ewing he made his displeasure known about that shot. You could here him loudly saying that's a bad shot (ala the Doc moment that went viral a couple years ago). He said it twice to him but then pulled him over and gave McClung a pat on the back as he went to sit on the bench. McClung was scoring the ball at a high clip to that point, Coach Ewing could have let that shot go...as a heat check. Nope, instead he let him know while still showing him support. Coach Ewing pulled all the right strings last night, while still holding one of his best players accountable.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 5, 2019 11:53:31 GMT -5
Touching the ball is very important. I think that’s why Mac shot so well last night. You need rhythm and feel. that's absolutely part of it - there were more passes ahead in transition off rebounds in the first half last night than there have been this whole season. The only game that was remotely comparable was the Texas game which I stated at the time was Akinjo's best game of the season. He let that game come to him, was the closer down the stretch and didn't get in the way of McClung and Yurt7 eating...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 12:02:49 GMT -5
I think Mac has had the green light offensively since the first day he stepped on campus, but that doesn't mean Coach Ewing lets him do whatever he wants. He still coaches Mac hard and when he takes bad shots and makes bad decisions he hears about it and/or takes a seat on the bench. It looks like Ewing wants him to constantly look for his offense, but to make the correct basketball play when a good shot is not there. It appeared that he sometimes felt he needed to make/force plays everytime he had the ball in his hands when Akinjo was the PG, because he wasn't sure when he would get his next opportunity. Now he knows he is going to touch the ball pretty much every possession he is in the game and hopefully that allows him to make better decisions. It takes a special type of player to maintain that aggressiveness and still be willing to take the coaching/criticism that he gets when he makes a mistake. I think Mac has grown as a player since last year and with this new expanded role he is going to have to play, I expect he will continue to grow. He will likely still take a few bad shots and try to force some plays that turn into turnovers, but if he learns and grows from those experiences he will reach his full potential. Don't know if this has been mentioned but Coach Ewing pulled McClung right after he pulled that 30 footer with 11 seconds left on that shot clock that ricochet off the back board. The TV camera's caught McClung going back to the bench and as he walked by Coach Ewing he made his displeasure known about that shot. You could here him loudly saying that's a bad shot (ala the Doc moment that went viral a couple years ago). He said it twice to him but then pulled him over and gave McClung a pat on the back as he went to sit on the bench. McClung was scoring the ball at a high clip to that point, Coach Ewing could have let that shot go...as a heat check. Nope, instead he let him know while still showing him support. Coach Ewing pulled all the right strings last night, while still holding one of his best players accountable. He didn't pull him b/c of the shot -- he pulled him b/c he was playing offense/defense in the last few possessions before the half. You can see that he wasn't going to sub for him before Omer got fouled. Sure - he gave it to him about the shot when he came back to the bench. But he put him right back in once we got the ball back (after the charge).
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 5, 2019 12:06:24 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. I am not sure I agree. Was Mac ball dominant last night or was he just high usage? Why couldn’t James work with a high usage scorer unless he had a problem with not getting the shots or not getting the attention? Allen scored 15 with 5 assists last night, but getting his own shots was not his priority. Don’t get me wrong. Allen took 7 shots, but he was not looking for his shot on every possession. From my vantage point, Akinjo was more committed his own success than his teammates success...not realizing that he will be successful when his teammates are successful. There were times when Akinjo absolutely carried the team like in the 1st game of the year, but for the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts we needed a different mentality. What was great about Terrell Allen (The Insurance Policy) was that he didn't force any shots last night. He took wide open shots off the best ball movement of the season. He was driving into the key not for his shot but to kickout to teammates. Even that dagger three at the end of the game wasn't a force because he was up against the shot clock. I questioned the addition of Allen in the off season. He just came off a season as a starting PG off an NCAA tournament team that was a bad call/rebound away from a major upset and sweet 16 appearance. With the starting PG coming off a BIG EAST conference freshmen award, I didn't see the minutes for a player with Allen's resume. Once again it shows Coach knows the needs of his team. He had the pulse of his squad...
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 5, 2019 12:10:31 GMT -5
Don't know if this has been mentioned but Coach Ewing pulled McClung right after he pulled that 30 footer with 11 seconds left on that shot clock that ricochet off the back board. The TV camera's caught McClung going back to the bench and as he walked by Coach Ewing he made his displeasure known about that shot. You could here him loudly saying that's a bad shot (ala the Doc moment that went viral a couple years ago). He said it twice to him but then pulled him over and gave McClung a pat on the back as he went to sit on the bench. McClung was scoring the ball at a high clip to that point, Coach Ewing could have let that shot go...as a heat check. Nope, instead he let him know while still showing him support. Coach Ewing pulled all the right strings last night, while still holding one of his best players accountable. He didn't pull him b/c of the shot -- he pulled him b/c he was playing offense/defense in the last few possessions before the half. You can see that he wasn't going to sub for him before Omer got fouled. Sure - he gave it to him about the shot when he came back to the bench. But he put him right back in once we got the ball back (after the charge). Whatever the reason he pulled Mac, he still made his displeasure very very well know in Coach Ewing's booming voice while still encouraging McClung...
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 5, 2019 12:13:11 GMT -5
Last night was a completely different team than the one we saw before the transfers. I don't think it was a dead cat bounce. I think this team is a lot better today than it was on Monday.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 12:32:48 GMT -5
He didn't pull him b/c of the shot -- he pulled him b/c he was playing offense/defense in the last few possessions before the half. You can see that he wasn't going to sub for him before Omer got fouled. Sure - he gave it to him about the shot when he came back to the bench. But he put him right back in once we got the ball back (after the charge). Whatever the reason he pulled Mac, he still made his displeasure very very well know in Coach Ewing's booming voice while still encouraging McClung... He certainly did. And you can see Mac nodding and thinking "yeah, my bad"
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Dec 5, 2019 12:38:34 GMT -5
The problem was always apparent and I do not think it makes sense to assign blame at this point to anyone. The coach recruited two alpha-males to essentially share the same position. Two ball dominant guards and one ball--it was only a matter of time. One stayed, one left. Both will be better off and the team will benefit from the reduced tension even though it has lost a very talented player. There should be no need to trash the kid that left because he was not happy. That describes many kids who switch schools, including Yurt for leaving NC State, and Patrick Ewing Jr. who transferred to the hilltop. He did it in the middle of season though. I can't remember an recent instance of the best player of a potential NCAA tourney team quitting on his team like that. Please correct me though I haven't really done the research this is just off the top of my head Haven't bashed James, and I have no desire to. Transfers happen, and I won't blame a player for moving on if they are not in the situation they had hoped for. I will say, though, that I am having a harder time being so accepting of James' transfer given the abrupt departure in the middle of the season. Doesn't appear to be a particularly sound way to go about things, or there was more going on than we know. Either way, I will now join the DTM crowd.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 5, 2019 12:46:13 GMT -5
This is the first I ever heard of this. Could you elaborate on what happened? I heard that fight was with Akinjo & Mosely?[/quote] I will start off with the fact that I'm Akinjo's biggest fan but I would not be surprised to hear that he got in fights with every guard on our team. His personality oozes with "you better kiss the ring". Not every player can play with someone like Akinjo. Even Brilly, who I thought was the epitome of Alpha, treated his teammates differently than his opponents. James seems to want to win but only if he was the best player. I believe our fate was sealed when the kid from Provy called out Mac instead of calling out James.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 5, 2019 12:52:29 GMT -5
Last night was a completely different team than the one we saw before the transfers. I don't think it was a dead cat bounce. I think this team is a lot better today than it was on Monday. I am re-watching the game and this is best the Hoyas have looked in a long, long time. We have had good players...we just couldn't get them to play together successfully. Last night we did.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 5, 2019 13:37:54 GMT -5
Yurtseven transferred due to racism he was experiencing at NC State. He felt GU and DC would be more accepting of foreigners.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Dec 5, 2019 13:56:31 GMT -5
He did it in the middle of season though. I can't remember an recent instance of the best player of a potential NCAA tourney team quitting on his team like that. Please correct me though I haven't really done the research this is just off the top of my head Kenny Brunner? Kenny was absolutely dismissed...even if it was called a parting of the ways to save the kid's reputation, which he then completely destroyed at Fresno and LA City College. I'm not going to rehash it 20 years later, but Brunner did not "quit." So to Dr's point, it is very, very rare for a player of Akinjo's caliber to walk away midseason. Perhaps he will regret it. If last night's performance is any indication, we will not.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Dec 5, 2019 14:07:52 GMT -5
that's absolutely part of it - there were more passes ahead in transition off rebounds in the first half last night than there have been this whole season. The only game that was remotely comparable was the Texas game which I stated at the time was Akinjo's best game of the season. He let that game come to him and didn't get in the way of McClung and Yurt7 eating... The Texas game is a perfect example of what Mackinjo could've been if James had actually applied himself and tried to make it work. You want to know why James played so well that game and played a winning, team brand of basketball? Because he knew we had to beat them in order to play Duke. Why did he want Duke so bad? Because he knew Tre Jones was being touted as the top PG in the country. Akinjo was hell bent on getting that matchup so he could get that one on one battle and prove he was better. All that ever mattered to James Akinjo was James Akinjo and proving how tough and how much better he was than the next guy. I guarantee winning games was secondary to him over winning one on one battles. Sure, he wanted to do both, but given a choice he'd take scoring 25 and holding his guy to 5 with a loss, than the opposite. I also wouldn't be surprised if he tried somewhat sabotaging Mac after big games last year. It's no secret that Mac would usually follow up a good game with a poor one. While that will certainly happen at times this year, I doubt it will be the case nearly as often as it was last year. Mac's biggest flaw has been his shot selection. If he doesn't touch the ball 4 or 5 times down the floor, which was often the case playing with James, the next time he gets it, it doesn't matter how well guarded he is, he's taking a shot. That was Mac's biggest weakness playing with James... not being included in the offense for long stretches and then forcing the issue when he finally was included out of fear of not seeing the ball again for a long time. I'm sure James hated it every time Mac had a big game and likely went out of his way to not look for him in the offense during the next. I'm also sure it was very important to him that he average more points per game than Mac, which he narrowly pulled off during the last few games of the season. I used to wonder why and how in 30 or so games, all those minutes together, James never once looked for Mac on an alley-oop. I can only remember one guy trying it, and it was Blair. There definitely wasn't many opportunities for them, but there had to be a few in there. James I'm sure knew a Mac oop would be all over sportscenter, social media, etc and likely wanted no part in making that happen.
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