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Post by centercourt400s on Mar 21, 2019 14:12:31 GMT -5
It's obvious that Govan doesn't make the prestigious 2019 All-smokeyjack team.
But he did make the 2019 All Big East first team, as voted by the 10 professional coaches who are paid millions of dollars by their employers to evaluate, analyze and manage high-level basketball players. So he's got that going for him.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 21, 2019 14:13:56 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Ok, but where does the "set the tone" reference you posted come into play? Did the other players on the team fight, claw, and battle in your view? I think so, for the most part. Not that they played well, but hard. But you definitely expect the most from upperclassmen - particularly seniors - and most especially the biggest guy on the court.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 21, 2019 14:21:54 GMT -5
It's obvious that Govan doesn't make the prestigious 2019 All-smokeyjack team. But he did make the 2019 All Big East first team, as voted by the 10 professional coaches who are paid millions of dollars by their employers to evaluate, analyze and manage high-level basketball players. So he's got that going for him. Maybe the affirmation from cheap seats and the BE coaches will be all he needs to get him through the long Turkish nights over the next few years.
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Post by centercourt400s on Mar 21, 2019 14:35:27 GMT -5
It's obvious that Govan doesn't make the prestigious 2019 All-smokeyjack team. But he did make the 2019 All Big East first team, as voted by the 10 professional coaches who are paid millions of dollars by their employers to evaluate, analyze and manage high-level basketball players. So he's got that going for him. Maybe the affirmation from cheap seats and the BE coaches will be all he needs to get him through the long Turkish nights over the next few years. Bitter anonymous poster on a fan message board vs 10 professional Big East head coaches... hmmmm, tough call as to which is more credible
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 21, 2019 15:10:31 GMT -5
Maybe the affirmation from cheap seats and the BE coaches will be all he needs to get him through the long Turkish nights over the next few years. Bitter anonymous poster on a fan message board vs 10 professional Big East head coaches... hmmmm, tough call as to which is more credible I’m not remotely bitter about Jessie. I just thought he sucked this season. I’m bitter that the ACC’s 6th man of the year is Dikembe’s nephew. As for credibility, Govan’s future will provide our answer. You want to wager we never see him stateside again? You name your price.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 21, 2019 15:15:28 GMT -5
Jessie made first team as voted by the coaches. However one coach saw him all season long. Read his quotes over the last month - and try to read between the lines.
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Post by centercourt400s on Mar 21, 2019 15:31:17 GMT -5
Bitter anonymous poster on a fan message board vs 10 professional Big East head coaches... hmmmm, tough call as to which is more credible I’m not remotely bitter about Jessie. I just thought he sucked this season. I’m bitter that the ACC’s 6th man of the year is Dikembe’s nephew. As for credibility, Govan’s future will provide our answer. You want to wager we never see him stateside again? You name your price. Govan may never make the NBA. Then again, none of us thought that Marcus Derrickson would make it and he did. Still, even if he doesn't, he can have a great life playing ball in Greece, France, Italy, Spain, Turkey, China, etc. Hell if someone told me as a college grad that they would pay my expenses plus a huge salary to spend half a year every year overseas playing a game, guess what my answer would have been? A couple of seasons in a solid foreign league would rate as a success in my book. Graduating from Georgetown is a success all by itself, assuming he does. Govan was not perfect but was demonstrably one of the top 6 players in the Big East this season, was crucial in most of the Hoyas wins, and honorably represented his team and university all four years he devoted to them. I just don't think he deserves the bashing you and some others are giving him.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 21, 2019 15:32:37 GMT -5
Jessie made first team as voted by the coaches. However one coach saw him all season long. Read his quotes over the last month - and try to read between the lines. No doubt that Jessie struggles on the defensive end and is not ever going to be referred to as "playing with a lot of fire" and I think that frustrated Coach Ewing at times, but coach also realized Jessie was the teams most consistent offensive player. Jessie did stay for 4 years, was Big East first team this year, will graduate with his class and represented the university with class for 4 years. I would be surprised if he ever played in the NBA, but I do wish him well in whatever his future holds.
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Mar 21, 2019 15:40:04 GMT -5
I don’t see the point in hammering on Jessie anymore. I’ve been hard on him this season because he’s definitely a flawed and inconsistent player. However, when he was good, he was really, really good and that was what was incredibly frustrating for me. I know that people also dragged him down for his seeming lack of effort or “low motor” and that may be true, but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. It couldn’t have been easy signing onto a Georgetown team with a bright future (given the potential of the class before him) just to watch the program go down in absolute flames. I’m almost certain that had to take its toll on him in some way, and I’m almost certain he would have wished his career at Georgetown would have been different in many ways.
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HoyaDr
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 21, 2019 15:49:18 GMT -5
Yea stop the Jessie bashing. If Paul White, Copeland, etc worked out, if Waters stayed, Jessie would've been just extra icing on the cake for a strong roster last year. If MD stayed this year, he wouldn't have to bear such a big responsibility. Instead the house burned down while he was here and he was all of a sudden in an unexpected position from his standpoint. I say he did relatively well given the circumstances. He's just one kid on a roster. Yes he was not good defensively during his career, but I mean you could see him all year expecting help defense in certain positions on the court but he got none. This is a team game and we had bad team defense but it doesn't solely fall on him.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 21, 2019 15:49:48 GMT -5
Jessie made first team as voted by the coaches. However one coach saw him all season long. Read his quotes over the last month - and try to read between the lines. I think a reasonable discussion can be had over whether Govan had a better season as a player than Pat had as a coach.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 21, 2019 16:00:41 GMT -5
Govan and the other seniors are in the rear view mirror. Good luck to all of them in their future endeavors.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 21, 2019 16:02:33 GMT -5
Jessie made first team as voted by the coaches. However one coach saw him all season long. Read his quotes over the last month - and try to read between the lines. I think a reasonable discussion can be had over whether Govan had a better season as a player than Pat had as a coach. All fair points. And totally agree with this one Madge - Pat has a long, long way to go.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 21, 2019 16:23:15 GMT -5
Jessie made first team as voted by the coaches. However one coach saw him all season long. Read his quotes over the last month - and try to read between the lines. I think a reasonable discussion can be had over whether Govan had a better season as a player than Pat had as a coach. Given your clear antipathy toward Ewing as a coach, you must think Govan had a helluva terrible season to even think it’s debatable.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 21, 2019 16:48:42 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Literally not true. What’s the point of fighting for a ball you don’t have position for? Oh wait I guess you can still poke players in the eye (see: Femi), but is that really a necessary component of trying to be competitive? Being reckless? Some players can fight as much as they want to, but their early effectiveness will depend on physical ability. It’s truly puzzling to me how our fanbase piles on Jessie when his limitations are physical and not mental. He physically can’t do some of the things posters are expecting him to do and that, to me, is not having a good understanding of the realities of the situation.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Mar 21, 2019 16:51:33 GMT -5
It means that when your senior big man, first team all big-east isn't fighting, clawing, and battling to win every rebound, every loose ball, every one-one-one battle, let alone every game, you aren't going to win in the postseason. That's fine though - wish him well - but I'm looking forward to next year when more if not all of the guys will take on the personality of the coach. Yeah there was not a single legit banger on this team, except maybe flashes of Josh LeBlanc, who right now is more of a leaper and in the future could be a better-scoring Rodman. Most of the other Big East teams except maybe Creighton have a few good scorers and a few bangers--like Mamukelashvili for Seton Hall > who by the way is 19 yo. Yurtseven practices with the team right? If so, my hunch is he dusts Govan in practice every day, that may be one reason Ewing dogs Govan. Yurtseven is a physical player and a high-motor guy. Having said that, the mystery to me is: Ewing always seem to know what went wrong in postgame conferences. He knows the game. But he can't seem to fix it. My question is, is that because he's allowing other coaches to handle the offense, or just the chasm between knowing the game and being able to teach the game? I can't blame the players for repeated strategic mistakes which ought to have been ironed out over the year. We have a young team. In every environment (work, field, court, etc.) you need people with experience in navigating the playing field. We had a shortage of that in key roles this year. Don’t overcomplicate it. Kentucky has had classes of players who didn’t play as well as our frosh this year. It’s the nature of sports. Not to mention his roster is a collection of players with different play styles and personalities.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 21, 2019 18:10:07 GMT -5
I do agree with this. Just think that despite his shooting, he's not a great fit for the new style Ewing wants to run. I think it's fair to say he was our best player this year, and that the team itself might be quite a bit better next year. If having a 41% 3P C does not fit your offense then maybe you aren't running the right offense. If the 41% guy takes 3.5 3/game and the 28% guy takes 4.9 3/game maybe you arent running the most efficient offense. I could go on but to say complain that Jessie was a net negative on offense is not a good sign for our future. We will find out next season. Until then, it's all conjecture.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Mar 21, 2019 18:54:46 GMT -5
Re First Team All-BE, got me wondering what DSR was up to. His junior season he was first team all BE (and the best player on a team that got a 4 seed in the NCAA tournament and actually won a game). Since then: senior year, couple of NBA workouts, Fort Wayne of the D League, stint in Greece, and appears to have spent the last season as an assistant at his old HS in Indiana. So it’s far from clear that first team All BE sets you up for a long career overseas. Govan is at least tall, so he’ll likely last longer. Big who can shoot but doesn’t play defense or rebound at all is slightly more desirable than good college guard lacking pro-level athleticism... but honestly not that much more desirable.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 21, 2019 19:17:55 GMT -5
Re First Team All-BE, got me wondering what DSR was up to. His junior season he was first team all BE (and the best player on a team that got a 4 seed in the NCAA tournament and actually won a game). Since then: senior year, couple of NBA workouts, Fort Wayne of the D League, stint in Greece, and appears to have spent the last season as an assistant at his old HS in Indiana. So it’s far from clear that first team All BE sets you up for a long career overseas. Govan is at least tall, so he’ll likely last longer. Big who can shoot but doesn’t play defense or rebound at all is slightly more desirable than good college guard lacking pro-level athleticism... but honestly not that much more desirable. At one point DSR posted something on social media indicating he was being forced to retire from playing the game competitively (presumably something health related but he didn’t specify). So he’s not a good example for your point.
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emkmd
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Post by emkmd on Mar 21, 2019 20:03:04 GMT -5
It’s easy to single out individual players, but the team missed a lot of wide open good shots last night. That said, the fatal flaw this year was the guys never really (except for a couple of games) managed to consistently play effective team defense. Defensive team rebounding was often really poor as it was last night. That’s all about effort. Someone mentioned Izzo upthread. His favorite drill should be a part of every practice. winninghoops.com/drills/tom-izzo-competitive-rebounding-drill/Just an incredibly disappointing loss. I agree we missed a lot of open shots, but was amazed by how badly we missed on some of those. It was not just the shots that barely hit the front rim from behind the deeper 3 point line. Mac took some really bad shots. Trey did too, although he did make a rare pass out of the lane and was rewarded with a dunk. Someone referenced the UTEP game in 93 for which I was in the front row under the basket. That team made good use of the home court advantage. Yesterday we wasted it. Govan with the two quick fouls didn’t help. Not hitting the guy at the foul line against the zone and instead settling for a Mac falling out of bounds fade away baseline midrange jumper. Anyway, just some of my two cents. Next year we’ll hopefully be better.
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