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Post by vamosalaplaya on Mar 14, 2019 15:56:21 GMT -5
Calling William & Mary is a "perfect fit" is damning - it's a program that has never played in the NCAA tournament, plays in a one bid league, with zero basketball culture where he will never get top recruits. Better he go to an Ivy League school. It's a massive step down way out of proportion to his track record. A struggling power conference team, of which there are tons, is a perfect fit, including many who have hired former Duke assistants or one-season wonder mid-major coaches who then get run over like the spotter in Taken or grind away for years with just-outside-the NIT performances. Wake Forest, Cal, and Boston College should all have openings this Spring and JT III would be a true "perfect fit" at those places if he wanted it. The mind-boggling debacle at Vanderbilt also comes to mind although Bryce Drew may keep his job for another year.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Mar 14, 2019 15:59:19 GMT -5
I wish JTIII the very best in whatever opportunity he seeks. He was always a first class professional and a resource to WDC!
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2019 17:37:52 GMT -5
Malinowski came from there. Can’t be that bad.
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metaphor
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Post by metaphor on Mar 14, 2019 20:25:38 GMT -5
Good for him. He took the Hoyas to the Final Four. Only two other Georgetown coaches achieved that. He deserves another chance somewhere.
It would also be good for the Hoyas if he gets another job and finds success again. We don't need to become the place where coaches go to end their careers in coaching.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Mar 15, 2019 0:36:46 GMT -5
I never understand the need to throw shade at someone that many not have brought the wins you wanted to the university but certainly served with dignity and respect. Wish him well and let him move on. (I used throwing shade correctly right? Not quite sure how the kids are using it these days) It wasn't meant as throwing shade. JT3 accomplished a lot during his time here, no debate there. But more than anything, his inability to adapt to the rule changes the NCAA enforced a few years back was probably the biggest reason for his failures during the end of his tenure here. If he doesn't learn from his lesson and adapt his defense philosophies accordingly, he will fail again no matter what level he ends up coaching. That was the point of the original post. I hope that's not the case and he does well wherever he ends up. Yeah, I think sometimes with rule changes, you gain a real advantage being in the commentators chair and watching from a different angle. I thought the 2 biggest reasons for his rough times were the inability to adapt to the new defensive rules along with not recruiting to his system, which calls for top-flight ball-handlers and shooters all over the court (not necessarily big-time athletes). I see no reason he couldn't succeed again - I think he's a good, but stubborn coach. But now he's one that has seen things from another angle, and that might have been just what he needed.
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Mar 15, 2019 8:14:50 GMT -5
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CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 15, 2019 8:32:15 GMT -5
William & Mary won't do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 8:34:40 GMT -5
I blame this thread for our performance last night.
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Mar 15, 2019 9:13:08 GMT -5
Damn. I never thought the girl could be so cruel.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Mar 15, 2019 9:15:49 GMT -5
JT III won't go back to that "new" school. . .
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 15, 2019 9:36:31 GMT -5
He can take Ronny T with him, but not Coach Wallace.
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Post by wisconsinhoya on Mar 15, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
When the day comes that JT III decides to get back into coaching, I will wish him the best of luck. With all the abuse that posters on this board threw at him during his final days at Georgetown, I'm guessing a majority of those people forgot what shape this program was in during 2004, or weren't fans of the program. JT III conducted himself with class and dignity, won a lot of games, a few Big East regular season titles, took us to a Final Four in 2007 and was the head coach of our only Big East tournament title since 1989.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 15, 2019 14:59:04 GMT -5
The degree of thinly disguised animosity some have against the man is baffling to me. The article in The Athletic is very well done. It is telling that he is far more classy about his exit than most of his detractors. I wish him well in wherever he lands to coach next (except someplace like Syracuse, of course).
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Loyal Hoya
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Mar 15, 2019 15:39:07 GMT -5
JT3 has an overall W-L record of 346-193 in 17 years as head coach (Princeton 4, GU 13) That is a winning percentage of: 64% At GU, he won 65% of his games against an OOC schedule that was regularly among the Top 10 in the country Won 58% in the BE - arguably the most competitive in the country during most of his time there. He also won 3 Ivy Championships and 3 BE championships and 1 BET 10 NCAA Tournaments 4 NIT -- for a total of 14 Post season appearances in 17 years as HC 1 Sweet Sixteen Finish 1 Final Four He is a class act who will represent whatever University he chooses very well. 0 scandals and most kids graduated. HIs teams were almost always ranked, and spent at least some time in the TOP TEN for years. Lots of high seeds in the NCAAs His last few years were very disappointing. Some said he lost the first to recruit. Others that he failed to adapt to changing rules and a changing game. If he had finished strong, he would still have a job. But the above is a pretty strong coaching track record. Maybe not a leading candidate for the most competitive jobs out there, but a much stronger candidate than most for the majority of jobs. IF he wants it. Good luck to him. Solid member of the Hoya family who rebuilt the program. JT III's record in terms of winning percentage, conference titles, and NCAA appearances is well above most power conference coaches. It is essentially equivalent to that of John Beilein (considered one of the great X's and O's coach in the game) and much better than that of Kevin Willard or Chris Holtman. He has a lower winning percentage than Chris Mack, but JTIII has a final four appearance and six conference titles compared to three for Mack. I think JT III would be a great hire for many schools.
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Loyal Hoya
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Mar 15, 2019 15:41:42 GMT -5
It wasn't meant as throwing shade. JT3 accomplished a lot during his time here, no debate there. But more than anything, his inability to adapt to the rule changes the NCAA enforced a few years back was probably the biggest reason for his failures during the end of his tenure here. If he doesn't learn from his lesson and adapt his defense philosophies accordingly, he will fail again no matter what level he ends up coaching. That was the point of the original post. I hope that's not the case and he does well wherever he ends up. Yeah, I think sometimes with rule changes, you gain a real advantage being in the commentators chair and watching from a different angle. I thought the 2 biggest reasons for his rough times were the inability to adapt to the new defensive rules along with not recruiting to his system, which calls for top-flight ball-handlers and shooters all over the court (not necessarily big-time athletes). I see no reason he couldn't succeed again - I think he's a good, but stubborn coach. But now he's one that has seen things from another angle, and that might have been just what he needed. I think being stubborn is a character trait of most college coaches. LOL
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Mar 15, 2019 15:47:24 GMT -5
I don't really want to rehash everything, but I think a lot of fans aren't so warm in regards to JT3 because, classy as he may be, he dug our program into a huge ditch, one that we are still stuck in and trying to get out of. Maybe when we are back to being a strong program again we can look back a little more fondly.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Mar 15, 2019 16:14:56 GMT -5
Most of the descriptions here aren't mutually exclusive. JT3 did some great and exciting things. The last few years were disappointing. I think SaxaCD nails exactly why he ran into trouble. I wish him well in his future pursuits, but I'm glad that Patrick is at the helm today.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 15, 2019 16:30:44 GMT -5
I don't really want to rehash everything, but I think a lot of fans aren't so warm in regards to JT3 because, classy as he may be, he dug our program into a huge ditch, one that we are still stuck in and trying to get out of. Maybe when we are back to being a strong program again we can look back a little more fondly. I think it's far to say JT3 left the program in a bad situation, but it's easy to forget that the program he took over in 2004 was already in a huge ditch (a bigger one than he left, I would argue, but it's neither here nor there). One of the main reasons why his last few years were looked upon so poorly (and hard for us fans to accept) is because of the huge heights he had previously reached. So, essentially, people are angry at JT3 for not maintaining the success that he was largely responsible for. I understand why, but I think John Thompson Jr. gets off pretty easily for the way he left the program. When he left in 1999, he left Esherick a huge mess (even though he was a terrible coach, he didn't get a good circumstance to inherit), by quitting mid-season he basically forced Esherick on the university (rather than having a search), and he did a poor job of maintaining the huge momentum he built in the 1980s. Make no mistake - I have tremendous respect for Thompson Jr. He built the program, he won a national championship, he made the championship game three times. He had a stellar time at Georgetown through the early 1990s. So he deserves all the accolades in the world. But, very few seem to have animosity toward him, even though he left the program arguably in worse condition than JT3 did in 2017. Both Thompsons have done a huge service for Georgetown University, in reality, and both deserve positive recognition. I can understand why, now, JT3 likely wouldn't want to touch Georgetown and why some fans can't get over the failures he had, but maybe with time that will change.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 15, 2019 16:34:59 GMT -5
I watched the first half of the 2006 Syracuse BE tournament game the other day (it was on some station on my cable system). that's the game we led by 15 at the half, then McNamara went off in the second half and we lost. That's why I just watched the first half!
Watching that team run the Thompson offense crisply, with real purpose and understanding, against a defense that had not yet figure d out how to slow it down - it was really a thing of beauty. The passing was so quick, crisp, and smart. Just completely different from how this offense looked during the final years of the JTIII run. I'll always believe that the biggest problem was that teams figured out how to defend his offense (primarily by being physical with the cutters to deny the back door stuff), and he never completely figured out how to counter the adjustments the BE defenses made. even vs. the Cuse zone, you could see the Princeton principles being run extremely effectively back in the early, glory days of the JTIII run
It will be interesting to see if he sticks with the Princeton stuff when he gets his next job, or if he tries to make the transition he was trying to make at the end with Georgetown - moving to a more up tempo, guard based offense. I wish him all the best. These first few JTIII years (really up until the second half of the Davidson game) were fantastic. but although there were plenty of wins after that, it really was all downhill from there, with occasional moments of greatness, but overall a steady decline culminating in the crash of the final two seasons.
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Mar 15, 2019 16:51:13 GMT -5
What kind of comp package could he expect there? What is the W&M coach getting now? What about the BC coach? I could see him there, close to Martha's V. His salary from the AD was apparently in the $320k range per his agent (not his whole comp, I'm sure), but I'd expect there'd be a decent raise for the next guy (depending on who it is, obviously) because of the school's renewed commitment to athletics with the new president discussing how important athletics are and the new AD making some more ambitious moves. Edit to add: it appears his buyout was $1.7 million.
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