wnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 497
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Post by wnyhoya on Jan 22, 2019 17:32:01 GMT -5
I always go with my best players at end of game, not who’s done well the past three minutes spelling a starter. You don’t sit Mac to have a bench player in for the last five minutes. This is where I get hung up too. I get it that Ewing has thrown together some odd, disjointed lineups on paper that have either stemmed the tide or provided a run for us in spurts at times this year. However, in my opinion it seems he’s always run these lineups out for 2-3 minutes longer than necessary. I get that in spurts they’ve done what you’ve wanted but at a certain point their deficiencies are exposed and the opposition adjusts. That’s when you have to get your best players back in the game. No way should Josh and Mac been on the bench the final 10 mins of the game only to have Mac inserted under a minute. Can you really expect him to make an impact at the most crucial moment of the game after sitting cold for what was probably close to a half hour real time? No you can’t. Our best players should have been in the game under 5 and on last night and they weren’t. Same could be said for the final few minutes of the Syracuse game. You recruited these young guys for a reason, no reason to not sink or swim with them now
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 22, 2019 17:36:49 GMT -5
Well not so long ago we lost these games at home by 10 or 15? Real history doesn't actually bear out this narrative: Ewing: 2018: 2-7 at home. Losing margins: 1, 2OT but lose by 2, OT but lose by 4, 5, 12, 24, 32 JT3: 2017: 3-6 at home (4-6 if you include Connecticut which was in January). Of the 6 losses, the margins were: 2, OT loss by two, 5, OT but loss by 9, 18, 26 (Villanova). 2016: 4-5 at home. Margins of the losses: OT loss by 3, 4, 5, 8, 18. 2015: 7-2 at home. Losses by 3 and 13. 2014: 6-3 at home. Losses by 5, 8, 10. So in the last 4 years under JT, we had double digit losses of 10, 13, 18, 18, and 26. Last year we had three under Ewing of 12, 24, and 32. I am not trying to create a JT3 v. Ewing debate here. I am just trying to show that the idea that we should be thankful just to be in these games is just wrong. Pretty much by any metric, this is the worst team since 2004. It remains to be seen whether this team will do better than last year's but right now it's not looking good. But, there's a lot of season remaining.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jan 22, 2019 19:26:43 GMT -5
There's no way Ewing goes anywhere for at least 4 total years. And, I think he deserves that, as he should have a chance to build his own team and go through enough recruiting cycles to do that. While I have some concerns about Ewing, given the way the university conducted the last search, and the outsized influence of John Thompson Jr. and his desire to keep things within the family, I am not sure anybody should be looking forward to that again. Our best bet is for Ewing to recruit better, learn from his mistakes, and put out a winning product. That's what I am hoping for. That's what I'm hoping for as well. Because, if we can all get a little honest with ourselves, if Ewing fails, then we may have passed the point of no return for this program. A Thompson failed and then a Ewing failed? Who would want this job? Maybe a young coach that wants to make a name for himself. But the chance of that being successful? Not huge. If in 2 more seasons we're still having this conversation, then the program is likely done as any sort of national power. Maybe we'll get lucky every so often and make the NCAAs, but a Ewing failure might just spell the end to Georgetown basketball on any national level. Let's face it. Anyone that was born when we last won a title is now 34+ years old. We haven't been to the Final Four in 11+ years. I hate this. And this is certainly not what I'm hoping for. If PE doesn’t work out and John Thompson Jr is still alive we are hiring Ronny Thompson as our next head coach. Guaranteed. So we should all be rooting hard for Ewing to succeed.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jan 22, 2019 19:30:49 GMT -5
Well not so long ago we lost these games at home by 10 or 15? Real history doesn't actually bear out this narrative: Ewing: 2018: 2-7 at home. Losing margins: 1, 2OT but lose by 2, OT but lose by 4, 5, 12, 24, 32 JT3: 2017: 3-6 at home (4-6 if you include Connecticut which was in January). Of the 6 losses, the margins were: 2, OT loss by two, 5, OT but loss by 9, 18, 26 (Villanova). 2016: 4-5 at home. Margins of the losses: OT loss by 3, 4, 5, 8, 18. 2015: 7-2 at home. Losses by 3 and 13. 2014: 6-3 at home. Losses by 5, 8, 10. So in the last 4 years under JT, we had double digit losses of 10, 13, 18, 18, and 26. Last year we had three under Ewing of 12, 24, and 32. I am not trying to create a JT3 v. Ewing debate here. I am just trying to show that the idea that we should be thankful just to be in these games is just wrong. Pretty much by any metric, this is the worst team since 2004. It remains to be seen whether this team will do better than last year's but right now it's not looking good. But, there's a lot of season remaining. In the last two years of JT3 we lost 11 conference games by 10 or more points. So far is one plus seasons Ewing has lost four by that wide a margin. These are depressing comparisons to make but let’s not forget just how dismal those last two seasons under JT3 really were.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,300
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 22, 2019 19:32:55 GMT -5
Well not so long ago we lost these games at home by 10 or 15? Real history doesn't actually bear out this narrative: Ewing: 2018: 2-7 at home. Losing margins: 1, 2OT but lose by 2, OT but lose by 4, 5, 12, 24, 32 JT3: 2017: 3-6 at home (4-6 if you include Connecticut which was in January). Of the 6 losses, the margins were: 2, OT loss by two, 5, OT but loss by 9, 18, 26 (Villanova). 2016: 4-5 at home. Margins of the losses: OT loss by 3, 4, 5, 8, 18. 2015: 7-2 at home. Losses by 3 and 13. 2014: 6-3 at home. Losses by 5, 8, 10. So in the last 4 years under JT, we had double digit losses of 10, 13, 18, 18, and 26. Last year we had three under Ewing of 12, 24, and 32. I am not trying to create a JT3 v. Ewing debate here. I am just trying to show that the idea that we should be thankful just to be in these games is just wrong. Pretty much by any metric, this is the worst team since 2004. It remains to be seen whether this team will do better than last year's but right now it's not looking good. But, there's a lot of season remaining. Yep. IMO, we have regressed over the last three weeks, which is a very bad sign. Also, have you noticed just how atrocious this very bad team looks without Govan on the floor? Does that give you the warm and fuzzies for Year 3 under Pat? Have you seen our recruiting class? Mac, Akinjo and LeBlanc show flashes of brilliance. But as a group, are they improving or making the same mistakes over and over again? Where’s the player development? I just don’t share the board’s general optimism. 24 hours later, I feel even more despondent about the future.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Jan 22, 2019 20:12:46 GMT -5
I looked at my recording of the game. We lost by 4 points yet Creighton scored 12 points off offensive rebounds that led to wide open 3's mainly because we were crashing the boards. Look I understand how frustrating a loss like this is but when guys are rolling on the floor fighting for an offensive rebound and the ball squirts out and finds a Creighton player who finds another Creighton player who finds a wide open Ty Alexander there is really nothing PE can do. Or when Govan misses two easy buckets in the lane in the final minute of the game there is nothing PE can do. Hey this stuff happens. Just ask Cooley how it feels to lose a game you had won or ask McDermott how it feels to lose to Marquette when you have a 3 point lead with .08 seconds left and the ball.
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
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Post by McBricks on Jan 22, 2019 20:35:28 GMT -5
That's what I'm hoping for as well. Because, if we can all get a little honest with ourselves, if Ewing fails, then we may have passed the point of no return for this program. A Thompson failed and then a Ewing failed? Who would want this job? Maybe a young coach that wants to make a name for himself. But the chance of that being successful? Not huge. If in 2 more seasons we're still having this conversation, then the program is likely done as any sort of national power. Maybe we'll get lucky every so often and make the NCAAs, but a Ewing failure might just spell the end to Georgetown basketball on any national level. Let's face it. Anyone that was born when we last won a title is now 34+ years old. We haven't been to the Final Four in 11+ years. I hate this. And this is certainly not what I'm hoping for. If PE doesn’t work out and John Thompson Jr is still alive we are hiring Ronny Thompson as our next head coach. Guaranteed. So we should all be rooting hard for Ewing to succeed. Is there a thumbs down button someplace? Yikes!
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,397
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 22, 2019 20:39:00 GMT -5
Real history doesn't actually bear out this narrative: Ewing: 2018: 2-7 at home. Losing margins: 1, 2OT but lose by 2, OT but lose by 4, 5, 12, 24, 32 JT3: 2017: 3-6 at home (4-6 if you include Connecticut which was in January). Of the 6 losses, the margins were: 2, OT loss by two, 5, OT but loss by 9, 18, 26 (Villanova). 2016: 4-5 at home. Margins of the losses: OT loss by 3, 4, 5, 8, 18. 2015: 7-2 at home. Losses by 3 and 13. 2014: 6-3 at home. Losses by 5, 8, 10. So in the last 4 years under JT, we had double digit losses of 10, 13, 18, 18, and 26. Last year we had three under Ewing of 12, 24, and 32. I am not trying to create a JT3 v. Ewing debate here. I am just trying to show that the idea that we should be thankful just to be in these games is just wrong. Pretty much by any metric, this is the worst team since 2004. It remains to be seen whether this team will do better than last year's but right now it's not looking good. But, there's a lot of season remaining. In the last two years of JT3 we lost 11 conference games by 10 or more points. So far is one plus seasons Ewing has lost four by that wide a margin. These are depressing comparisons to make but let’s not forget just how dismal those last two seasons under JT3 really were. In JT3 second to last dismal season, beat a ranked Syracuse team and beat #5 Xavier in the road, and played Duke to the final whistle at MSG. In JT3s last disastrous season, we beat a Final Four team in Oregon and beat a ranked Syracuse team in the Dome. This team needs a signature win and will get plenty of opportunities in the second half of this season.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jan 22, 2019 21:02:03 GMT -5
In the last two years of JT3 we lost 11 conference games by 10 or more points. So far is one plus seasons Ewing has lost four by that wide a margin. These are depressing comparisons to make but let’s not forget just how dismal those last two seasons under JT3 really were. In JT3 second to last dismal season, beat a ranked Syracuse team and beat #5 Xavier in the road, and played Duke to the final whistle at MSG. In JT3s last disastrous season, we beat a Final Four team in Oregon and beat a ranked Syracuse team in the Dome. This team needs a signature win and will get plenty of opportunities in the second half of this season. At least you agree they were disastrous. There’s really no other word for them. There’s a reason he was fired. Also: now we’re giving credit for playing good teams down to the final whistle? Interesting.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,777
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 22, 2019 22:36:11 GMT -5
At least you agree they were disastrous. There’s really no other word for them. There’s a reason he was fired. I don't think any of us has a cogent understanding of what it takes to get fired at Georgetown, but rest assured it's about more than wins and losses. These are the kind of decisions that go well above the athletic director and likely at the Board of Directors level, who have a view of the financial trajectory of the program in ways we do not. They are far less worried about a close loss to Syracuse and more about the deficit spending when a program does not make the NCAA's in two, three or more years and what GU loses every time we draw 5,000 a game at Capital One Arena. Georgetown had the third largest basketball budget in NCAA Division I for 2017 and has very little to show for it over the last six years. This, not end of game management, is the kind of factor that will put any coach in scrutiny at some point.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 22, 2019 22:50:21 GMT -5
Third largest budget should translate to third best team or at least top-10. Return on investment sucks!
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Post by nattybumpo3152 on Jan 23, 2019 2:13:33 GMT -5
Deleted.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 23, 2019 7:36:47 GMT -5
I pray that this board doesn’t devolve into a “who’s leaving” site. ☹️
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Jan 23, 2019 9:03:44 GMT -5
2 years at most. 4 years straight of not making the NIT, who can defend that. There's no way Ewing goes anywhere for at least 4 total years. And, I think he deserves that, as he should have a chance to build his own team and go through enough recruiting cycles to do that. While I have some concerns about Ewing, given the way the university conducted the last search, and the outsized influence of John Thompson Jr. and his desire to keep things within the family, I am not sure anybody should be looking forward to that again. Our best bet is for Ewing to recruit better, learn from his mistakes, and put out a winning product. That's what I am hoping for. nbhoya asked: "I don’t want to be that guy, but how many more seasons of this does Pat get?"I assume one of two things either you misunderstood my response or you are advocating for Ewing to get an additional 4 more years. I lean to the latter as I am sure you are not saying Ewing should get 4 more seasons at this level.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 23, 2019 9:14:39 GMT -5
I don’t think we are going to be a revolving door for coaches for many reasons.
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Post by bigelephant on Jan 23, 2019 9:57:36 GMT -5
Why even bring this up that that's a possibility? No evidence whatsoever and just causes a lot of angst on the board! It does not even rise to "speculation"!
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