Church's Sex Abuse Scandal

[EasyEd]

Outstanding homily on the subject:

www.ncregister.com/blog/dan-burke/must-watch-video-how-to-recognize-judas-in-your-midst

[hoya9797]

Here’s your periodic reminder that the Catholic Church is the largest criminal organization in history.

The study, which was commissioned by the Roman Catholic Church bishops’ conference in Germany, found that at least 1,670 church workers had been involved in the abuse of 3,677 children. That is 4.4 percent of the clergy.

As shocking as the findings are in a country that to date has learned mostly of individual cases of abuse, they are likely to underestimate the true extent of the problem, said Christian Pfeiffer, a criminologist.

Mr. Pfeiffer said he had initially been asked to take part in the research. In the end, he said, he refused because the church wanted to reserve its right to control the resulting research papers — and under certain circumstances even ban their publication.

“The report does not give the full picture, and is not fully independent,” he said.

Researchers had no direct access to church files, relying instead on church personnel to fill in questionnaires for them, he said. And in several cases, the report found evidence that files regarding the abuse of minors had been manipulated or destroyed.

“The degree of the cover up is stunning and beyond anything I had expected,” Mr. Pfeiffer said.

www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/world/europe/german-church-sex-abuse-children.html

[hoya9797]

The cover up continues to this very day. Now, the church in Buffalo has been caught.

www.wkbw.com/longform/7-i-team-church-record-show-more-than-100-accused-priests-not-42-as-stated-by-bishop-malone

[hoya9797]

Today, it’s the church in the Netherlands...
‘

More than half of the Netherlands’ senior clerics were involved in covering up sexual assault of children between 1945 and 2010, a press report claimed on Saturday, further engulfing the Catholic church in a global abuse scandal

www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/16/dutch-catholic-church-accused-of-widespread-cover--up

[hoya9797]

The friary in remote western Kansas that is now home to a disgraced former U.S. cardinal removed from ministry by Pope Francis over allegations of sexual abuse is just one block from an elementary school.

Nice move, church. How Editeding dumb are these people?

[prhoya]

9797, it's Sept. 29th. Are you ready to help the church in October?

www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-calls-prayers-protect-church-attacks-devil-n915011

[hoya9797]

Gotta hand it to them, the church will do just about anything to avoid actually doing anything about this. The commitment to the cover up is impressive.

[hoya9797]

This latest one is a doozy.

www.thedailybeast.com/the-sex-abuse-of-deaf-orphans-in-pope-francis-backyard

Sixty seven boys living in an Italian school for the deaf were abused by more than two dozen priests. Here’s what one boy said happened:

When [Giuseppe] was 11, a monk who worked at the institute as an educator started teaching “special secret signs” for things like Edited, Edited, Edited, and Edited. “I didn’t understand at first just why this man was teaching me these strange secret signs,” Giuseppe explained in an exclusive, and very emotional, interview in Rome. “Then one day it became very clear when one of the priests made the secret sign for Edited when we were alone, which was followed by him pushing his erect Edited into my mouth.”

From that point on, Giuseppe said through his interpreter — often using fast and somewhat violent sign language as tears ran down his face — priests and the brothers would give a sign to the young boys and then take them to special rooms Giuseppe says were used for “time out” punishments or as resting areas. He said that because everyone was deaf at the school except those who worked there, no one could hear the screams and cries of the young boys when the abuse took place.

Giuseppe said that on several occasions he and others tried to write down what was happening, but because their letters and notes were given to the priests and brothers to be mailed…

Sadly, this is pretty standard stuff these days. Where it gets interesting is when we find out that these guys were shipped off to a sister school in Argentina where they kept going with the abuse. When they were caught there, Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergolio, you probably know him as Pope Francis, took over and made sure the complaints went nowhere, transferred the priests out, and the cover up was preserved.

Nice church you’ve got there.

[SSHoya]

www.washingtonpost.com/news/world/wp/2018/10/12/pope-accepts-resignation-of-washington-archbishop-donald-wuerl-amid-scandals-over-his-handling-of-sexual-abuse-claims/?utm_term=.899437985073

[hoyarooter]

I'm not Catholic, so have no personal stake in this, but can't help being repulsed by these goings on. Just curious, how would you all feel about removing the celibacy requirement?

[DFW HOYA]

Oct 12, 2018 20:00:35 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

I'm not Catholic, so have no personal stake in this, but can't help being repulsed by these goings on. Just curious, how would you all feel about removing the celibacy requirement?

I would not conflate celibacy with a proclivity for abuse. There are lots of cases in society (be they rabbis, scout masters, doctors, etc.) that are equally heinous and do not involve celibacy as a contributing factor. We would not suggest, for example, that celibate people are more likely to commit sexual assaults of adults.

There is a related though distinct conversation regarding married clergy. This was phased out in the Middle Ages as monasteries predominated over parishes and, among other things, stone fortreesed monasteries were no place for a family and they could not afford additional people there on the meager farming wages they earned. I do not think the monastic or mendicant orders are any more prepared to take this on in the 21st Century than they were in the 11th Century, nor too, the Jesuits, which are designed to be a missionary order and not one that brings along others. Where it may be more feasible would be diocesan priests along the lines of permanent deacons: a deacon can be ordained single or married, but cannot marry or remarry once they are ordained; hence, almost all deacons arrive married and stay that way.

FWIW, my parish was blessed for 15 years with a married Catholic priest by way of a conversion from the Episcopal priesthood. A great man and a great teacher. Some of the newer parishioners did not even know he lived with his family lived down the street and not at the rectory. This parish could afford the house and the upkeep, but not all parishes might be able to.

[Elvado]

Oct 12, 2018 20:44:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Oct 12, 2018 20:00:35 GMT -5 hoyarooter said:

I'm not Catholic, so have no personal stake in this, but can't help being repulsed by these goings on. Just curious, how would you all feel about removing the celibacy requirement?

I would not conflate celibacy with a proclivity for abuse. There are lots of cases in society (be they rabbis, scout masters, doctors, etc.) that are equally heinous and do not involve celibacy as a contributing factor. We would not suggest, for example, that celibate people are more likely to commit sexual assaults of adults.

There is a related though distinct conversation regarding married clergy. This was phased out in the Middle Ages as monasteries predominated over parishes and, among other things, stone fortreesed monasteries were no place for a family and they could not afford additional people there on the meager farming wages they earned. I do not think the monastic or mendicant orders are any more prepared to take this on in the 21st Century than they were in the 11th Century, nor too, the Jesuits, which are designed to be a missionary order and not one that brings along others. Where it may be more feasible would be diocesan priests along the lines of permanent deacons: a deacon can be ordained single or married, but cannot marry or remarry once they are ordained; hence, almost all deacons arrive married and stay that way.

FWIW, my parish was blessed for 15 years with a married Catholic priest by way of a conversion from the Episcopal priesthood. A great man and a great teacher. Some of the newer parishioners did not even know he lived with his family lived down the street and not at the rectory. This parish could afford the house and the upkeep, but not all parishes might be able to.

Echoing some of what DFW said, there is no direct correlation beteeen celibacy and any proclivity for abuse.

My issue with the celibacy requirement goes hand in hand with my objection to the exclusion of women from the priesthood and is much more practical in nature.

To wit: as currently constituted the Catholic Church is narrowing its talent pool for the priesthood so substantially as to lose out on wonderful candidates for God’s work.

The concept of the unmarried clergy is an artifice of man designed to preserve Church wealth. It is time for that to go along with the exclusion of women.

Is this change a silver bullet against abuse? Who knows? I do know the Church will be more vibrant and better for the changes.

[hoya9797]

Celibate or married clergy has nothing to do with covering up rape.

[Elvado]

Oct 13, 2018 8:33:53 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Celibate or married clergy has nothing to do with covering up rape.

Agreed.

However, steps to prevent future occurrences are a good idea no?

[hoya9797]

How is allowing married clergy going to reduce abuse? What are you saying about these unmarried men that makes them more likely to abuse kids?

[Elvado]

Oct 13, 2018 10:31:30 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

How is allowing married clergy going to reduce abuse? What are you saying about these unmarried men that makes them more likely to abuse kids?

Changing the overall composition of the clergy pool should change the frequency of abuse.

My overarching point is that the unmarried male only clergy is anachronistic, artificially imposed and counter productive.

You hate the Church and organized religion so no step will satisfy you. We all get it.

Carry on.

[hoya9797]

Oct 13, 2018 10:34:56 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Oct 13, 2018 10:31:30 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

How is allowing married clergy going to reduce abuse? What are you saying about these unmarried men that makes them more likely to abuse kids?

Changing the overall composition of the clergy pool should change the frequency of abuse.

Why?

[TC]

Oct 13, 2018 5:40:58 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Echoing some of what DFW said, there is no direct correlation beteeen celibacy and any proclivity for abuse.

Given the rates of coverup / moving people around / denying the problem, I don't think anyone can really make that claim. We have no idea what the real rate is, whether celibacy is directly an issue in creating sexual abuse or whether a policy of enforced mandatory celibacy so limits the pool that you screen in a great number of abusers.

Bringing up the existence of sexual abuse by Boy Scout Leaders, or by Republican Speakers of the House, or Dentists doesn't prove or disprove anything other than to say it's a problem for every institution.

[hoya95]

So the Archdiocese of DC just released a list of 28 "credibly accused" priests since 1948. Turns out one of them was the Monsignor that ran my parish and grade school. We damn sure never heard about that. The list just gives the most limited, basic information, but wow. (Also, good luck convincing anyone that there have been "no credible allegations" in the last 20 years.)


www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/10/15/washington-catholic-archdiocese-releases-names-priests-credibly-accused-abuse-since/?utm_term=.59a58da55c02

[SSHoya]

As one of 12 sons and daughters raised in a devout Catholic family, Peter Hamm has had a gnawing concern for almost 20 years that someday, he would learn that one of the priests he grew up around had been accused of abusing children. Was it a priest they encountered when their band of siblings participated in youth group, in choir, as babysitters during Mass?

www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/10/16/washington-catholics-stunned-learn-some-beloved-priests-were-accused-abuse-decades-ago/?utm_term=.7e815cf289e8