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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 26, 2018 12:07:33 GMT -5
The idea that rim protector isn't valuable in this era of college basketball is asinine anyways. Having someone in the back of the defense allows guards to tightly contest the 3 point shot because its not as much of a risk to get beat by the dribble. How well can a player protect the rim if his man is camped 22 ft from the basket? What happens when the rim protectors man sets the screen out by the 3pt line? You play zone 😝
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 12:16:20 GMT -5
Why do you say this? In his clips he shows good mobility and defensive awareness. I'll rewatch but he looked to be the help defender in many of the blocks.. He definitely was, but he looks agile enough to guard in space to me once he gets better experience and more coaching. He has good feet, anticipates well, good length, and change of direction looks solid. He has the physical tools is what I'm saying. He would have to be coached up. I also think the staff wants to add a player like you described. A small ball center that can switch everything. Stewart, Okuro etc.. I have a hunch (no inside info) they feel the Golden kid could grow into that also. It's been mentioned his shooting isn't there yet but I think his fundamentals look sound and a coach would think he could improve that with reps. I don't think if they land Wilson they would stop pursuing that type of player.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 26, 2018 12:43:00 GMT -5
The idea that rim protector isn't valuable in this era of college basketball is asinine anyways. Having someone in the back of the defense allows guards to tightly contest the 3 point shot because its not as much of a risk to get beat by the dribble. How well can a player protect the rim if his man is camped 22 ft from the basket? What happens when the rim protectors man sets the screen out by the 3pt line? It's called a match-up zone. The same defense Nova plays for this reason.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 26, 2018 13:37:15 GMT -5
I'll rewatch but he looked to be the help defender in many of the blocks.. He definitely was, but he looks agile enough to guard in space to me once he gets better experience and more coaching. He has good feet, anticipates well, good length, and change of direction looks solid. He has the physical tools is what I'm saying. He would have to be coached up. I also think the staff wants to add a player like you described. A small ball center that can switch everything. Stewart, Okuro etc.. I have a hunch (no inside info) they feel the Golden kid could grow into that also. It's been mentioned his shooting isn't there yet but I think his fundamentals look sound and a coach would think he could improve that with reps. I don't think if they land Wilson they would stop pursuing that type of player. I'll definitely look closer at look at his clips.. Let me make it clear I'm not against Wilson at all, I'm just not feeling the "Gtown needs a rim protector" sentiment folks are posting about.. I like your thought on Golden btw..
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Apr 26, 2018 13:57:16 GMT -5
He definitely was, but he looks agile enough to guard in space to me once he gets better experience and more coaching. He has good feet, anticipates well, good length, and change of direction looks solid. He has the physical tools is what I'm saying. He would have to be coached up. I also think the staff wants to add a player like you described. A small ball center that can switch everything. Stewart, Okuro etc.. I have a hunch (no inside info) they feel the Golden kid could grow into that also. It's been mentioned his shooting isn't there yet but I think his fundamentals look sound and a coach would think he could improve that with reps. I don't think if they land Wilson they would stop pursuing that type of player. I'll definitely look closer at look at his clips.. Let me make it clear I'm not against Wilson at all, I'm just not feeling the "Gtown needs a rim protector" sentiment folks are posting about.. I like your thought on Golden btw.. I think that in today's college game teams are not looking as much for players that block a lot of shots, as much as they are looking for players who can contest shots, without fouling, and have the ability to switch on screens and cover players on the perimeter. It might be a very subtle difference but you see less of the players that just stay in the lane and try to swat shots from players who penetrate and more of an emphasis on players who are mobile and athletic and can help coming from the weak side to contest shots. Any type of contact these days results in a foul so the ability to contest without fouling has become more of a focus.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 26, 2018 15:13:18 GMT -5
Start the class with Wilson and then go all out for the top guys knowing you at least have him in the bag. This is the exact type of player Pat can mold and then use as an example for years to come. Great timing, impressive ability to avoid body contact, good defensive footwork. Offensive game can come in time, and if it never does, he'll be a four year rim protector. Is a rim protector all that important in this 3pt era of basketball? Absolutely. What has changed is not the need for a rim protector. What has changed is that the rim protectors need to be able to defend the pick and roll and switch. This is absolutely true at the NBA level and often true at the college level. Having a great rim protector makes for better 3 pt defense. Because your perimeter players can extend their pressure out to the three point line more frequently because a rim protector is behind them to clean up their mess if they overcommit. When Roy started starting consistently in January of 2007, our defense became amazing. Not just because he stopped layups, but because he allowed mediocre defenders line Sapp and Wallace to pressure without concern for getting beat. We went from a mediocre defense to a top 10 defense with one personnel change. I don't know enough about Wilson to say yea or nay, but I am completely okay with a grabbing a top flight defensive center with limited offense. The latter will be taught by Ewing, and as long as they are athletic, they can at least play a Javale McGee / Clint Capela - style role on offense. Set screens, roll to the basket, catch lobs, offensive board, and generally occupy a defender with their athleticism rather than shooting. You just have to keep moving -- you can't camp.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 26, 2018 15:15:10 GMT -5
He definitely was, but he looks agile enough to guard in space to me once he gets better experience and more coaching. He has good feet, anticipates well, good length, and change of direction looks solid. He has the physical tools is what I'm saying. He would have to be coached up. I also think the staff wants to add a player like you described. A small ball center that can switch everything. Stewart, Okuro etc.. I have a hunch (no inside info) they feel the Golden kid could grow into that also. It's been mentioned his shooting isn't there yet but I think his fundamentals look sound and a coach would think he could improve that with reps. I don't think if they land Wilson they would stop pursuing that type of player. I'll definitely look closer at look at his clips.. Let me make it clear I'm not against Wilson at all, I'm just not feeling the "Gtown needs a rim protector" sentiment folks are posting about.. I like your thought on Golden btw.. You need rim protectors. It doesn't always need to be 7' center, though. That's why I'm a big fan of athleticism and length in the froncourt. You can get rim protection from height, but you can also get it from the Draymonds of the world. But right now, we give up too many layups to ever be good on defense.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 26, 2018 15:22:32 GMT -5
Is a rim protector all that important in this 3pt era of basketball? Absolutely. What has changed is not the need for a rim protector. What has changed is that the rim protectors need to be able to defend the pick and roll and switch. This is absolutely true at the NBA level and often true at the college level. Having a great rim protector makes for better 3 pt defense. Because your perimeter players can extend their pressure out to the three point line more frequently because a rim protector is behind them to clean up their mess if they overcommit. When Roy started starting consistently in January of 2007, our defense became amazing. Not just because he stopped layups, but because he allowed mediocre defenders line Sapp and Wallace to pressure without concern for getting beat. We went from a mediocre defense to a top 10 defense with one personnel change. I don't know enough about Wilson to say yea or nay, but I am completely okay with a grabbing a top flight defensive center with limited offense. The latter will be taught by Ewing, and as long as they are athletic, they can at least play a Javale McGee / Clint Capela - style role on offense. Set screens, roll to the basket, catch lobs, offensive board, and generally occupy a defender with their athleticism rather than shooting. You just have to keep moving -- you can't camp. Agreed. And he also needs to defend the three point shot by the other team's mobile center/forward. Last year's bigs struggled with this.
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dense
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Post by dense on Apr 26, 2018 19:00:49 GMT -5
SF perfectly illustrates why I am on board with offering Wilson now. He looks thr role that more NBA centers are playing.
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hoyas315
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Post by hoyas315 on Apr 26, 2018 20:52:02 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 26, 2018 21:20:01 GMT -5
I find this discussion thoroughly amusing...
Wilson reminds a lot of Justin Patton at the same age/stage of development. If Wilson was going to Creighton, posters on here would be worried saying how come Hoyas can't get find players like this. If Coach McDermott can develop them into first round pick and in the case of the current BIGs at Creighton viable BIG EAST level players, I'm beyond confident that Coach Ewing and staff can do the same and more. Not a shot at Coach McDermott, just saying I think Coach Ewing knows a thing or 2 about playing the position...
Really speaks to the high level of despair some of Hoyas fans on here are suffering..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 26, 2018 21:45:53 GMT -5
Is a rim protector all that important in this 3pt era of basketball? Absolutely. What has changed is not the need for a rim protector. What has changed is that the rim protectors need to be able to defend the pick and roll and switch. This is absolutely true at the NBA level and often true at the college level. Having a great rim protector makes for better 3 pt defense. Because your perimeter players can extend their pressure out to the three point line more frequently because a rim protector is behind them to clean up their mess if they overcommit.When Roy started starting consistently in January of 2007, our defense became amazing. Not just because he stopped layups, but because he allowed mediocre defenders line Sapp and Wallace to pressure without concern for getting beat. We went from a mediocre defense to a top 10 defense with one personnel change. I don't know enough about Wilson to say yea or nay, but I am completely okay with a grabbing a top flight defensive center with limited offense. The latter will be taught by Ewing, and as long as they are athletic, they can at least play a Javale McGee / Clint Capela - style role on offense. Set screens, roll to the basket, catch lobs, offensive board, and generally occupy a defender with their athleticism rather than shooting. You just have to keep moving -- you can't camp. This point assumes the offensive team wants a layup or dunk, many times they're looking for a kick out after the help defense comes.. The game is very different than it was 10 years ago especially in the way the game is now officiated.. Players like Sapp or Wallace can't use physicality nearly as much.. Again I wouldn't have any issue with the staff taking Wilson tomorrow however to me he will need to develop into more than a rim protecting rim runner to be truly effective..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 26, 2018 21:59:46 GMT -5
I find this discussion thoroughly amusing... Wilson reminds a lot of Justin Patton at the same age/stage of development. If Wilson was going to Creighton, posters on here would be worried saying how come Hoyas can't get find players like this. If Coach McDermott can develop them into first round pick and in the case of the current BIGs at Creighton viable BIG EAST level players, I'm beyond confident that Coach Ewing and staff can do the same and more. Not a shot at Coach McDermott, just saying I think Coach Ewing knows a thing or 2 about playing the position... Really speaks to the high level of despair some of Hoyas fans on here are suffering.. Patton was considered to be a skilled kid coming out of HS, he needed more size/strength that's why he was redshirted.. Here are some write ups.. insider.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/evaluation/_/id/201319/justin-pattonStrengths: Patton is a long and lean post. His excellent mobility allow him to run the floor extremely well. He is an athletic above the rim finisher on clear paths as well. He is an excellent mid rage shooter most of the catch or rhythm dribble. He is skill level is something that sets him apart of other front court players his size. He can handle the ball extremely well for his size and is a good shot blocker because of his length and athleticism. Patton is very coachable and has tremendous upside.247sports.com/Player/Justin-Patton-75635/high-school-129478Patton was one of the break out players during the summer of 2014. Already a Creighton commit, Patton displayed impressive mobility and skill. At 6-11, he has wide shoulders and lengthy arms. He's effective as a shot blocker and gets off his feet with ease. Offensively, he has good hands and touch. He also shot the ball with confidence from mid-range and finished around the basket well with his right hand.Justin Patton "Justin has a chance to be a very special player at Creighton," McDermott said. "He has the unique ability to score on the block and also handle the ball on the perimeter. His skill level for someone his size is very impressive. As he continues to gain weight and strength we feel that he can become one of the premier front-line players in the Big East Conference."
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 26, 2018 22:08:00 GMT -5
Going into the spring as rising senior (right after his junior year/same time period as now) Patton wasn't really known outside of Nebraska. He committed to Creighton before he exploded during that summer and ended up a top 100 player during his senior year...
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paranoia2
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Post by paranoia2 on Apr 26, 2018 22:59:38 GMT -5
Villanova plays with force & referees adjust to their physicality. I watched a lot of the ncaa tournament this year and there were so many dribble drives to the basket....and three pointers but games were decided with rim protection..
West Virginia was taking it right to Nova and their big man (6’8” monster...I w look him up) had Spellman out of sorts because he tossed his shot a few times and dunked hard in his face.
The presence of a rim protector allows perimeter defenders to gamble. I just watched the full 1984 championship game and the presence of Michael Graham was the difference. Graham did not take a perimeter shot and guarded Akeem a lot. He crashed the boards, delivered some forearm shivers and made it known nothin was for free.
If Patrick wants someone rest assured he has a role. Ewinf is leading the Hoyas to a championship. Of that I am sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 23:50:49 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 23:52:07 GMT -5
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 27, 2018 8:35:17 GMT -5
Going into the spring as rising senior (right after his junior year/same time period as now) Patton wasn't really known outside of Nebraska. He committed to Creighton before he exploded during that summer and ended up a top 100 player during his senior year... He may not have been known but that doesn't speak to his skill level at that time.. Here's the article on his commitment to Creighton, the description of Patton in June of 2014 is not likely what we'll be reading about Wilson in June of this year.. www.omaha.com/creighton/jays-pull-trigger-on-recruit-justin-patton-s-sudden-progress/article_2c57ac7f-87ec-536f-92dc-7ca407651b9e.htmlWilson is similar to Sodom in terms of on court ability and or development stage..
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Apr 27, 2018 8:39:50 GMT -5
Absolutely. What has changed is not the need for a rim protector. What has changed is that the rim protectors need to be able to defend the pick and roll and switch. This is absolutely true at the NBA level and often true at the college level. Having a great rim protector makes for better 3 pt defense. Because your perimeter players can extend their pressure out to the three point line more frequently because a rim protector is behind them to clean up their mess if they overcommit.When Roy started starting consistently in January of 2007, our defense became amazing. Not just because he stopped layups, but because he allowed mediocre defenders line Sapp and Wallace to pressure without concern for getting beat. We went from a mediocre defense to a top 10 defense with one personnel change. I don't know enough about Wilson to say yea or nay, but I am completely okay with a grabbing a top flight defensive center with limited offense. The latter will be taught by Ewing, and as long as they are athletic, they can at least play a Javale McGee / Clint Capela - style role on offense. Set screens, roll to the basket, catch lobs, offensive board, and generally occupy a defender with their athleticism rather than shooting. You just have to keep moving -- you can't camp. This point assumes the offensive team wants a layup or dunk, many times they're looking for a kick out after the help defense comes.. The game is very different than it was 10 years ago especially in the way the game is now officiated.. Players like Sapp or Wallace can't use physicality nearly as much.. Again I wouldn't have any issue with the staff taking Wilson tomorrow however to me he will need to develop into more than a rim protecting rim runner to be truly effective.. Even the Houston Rockets, who are the most 3-pt happy team in the NBA, and most consider the only threat to challenge Golden State, still shoot a little less than half of their shots in the paint. And they start a mobile big who shoots NO threes. Like not one. Similarly, GSWs who shoot probably the league’s second most 3s, plays the combination of Zaza/McGee roughly 25-30 mins a game at the center spot, neither of which has a particularly outstanding offensive game and neither of which shoots any 3s either. With the type of guards that Ewing is adding, my hope is a guy like him is catching a lot of lobs for dunks.
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Post by centercourt400s on Apr 27, 2018 8:51:40 GMT -5
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