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Post by centercourt400s on Apr 25, 2018 10:06:01 GMT -5
I disagree that last year's schedule was somehow an all-time worst. The schedule needs to be considered in light of what the team and program were facing at the time, and in that respect, as others have noted, there was a very reasonable basis for the schedule we had. I also have a fundamental disagreement with any fan whose temperature about the Hoyas is dependent on their schedule. My perspective is if that orange ball is bouncing and the Hoyas are playing, fans should be equally pumped up for St. Leo's in November or for Kansas in April. Fanaticism is not based on either schedule or performance. The problem with your first sentence is that in the modern era, at least, various statistics show that it really was one of the worst, if not the worst, OOC schedules over the last 15 years. If you don't think it was an all-time worst, that's fine, but the facts say otherwise. On fanaticism, I agree that it means intense devotion to your team, against all opponents, in good times and bad. I love the team, have seen every game for years (including the very few that haven't been on TV that I've traveled to), and like watching them. All that being said, what fan doesn't get more excited about bigger games? I think it's fair to say you can be a devoted fan and get more excited about playing Syracuse than North Carolina A&T. And the problem with people pushing the "worst schedule" agenda is that they are injecting their values into the conversation and treating them as if they are fact for everyone else. "Worst" implies that it was bad, unenjoyable, etc to an unmatched degree. I watched nearly every game last year and attended all of the non-conference games in person and I had a perfectly good time doing so. For me the schedule was not the "worst". Now if you were to say it was the "easiest" non-conference schedule then I'd be forced to agree.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 25, 2018 10:22:53 GMT -5
You are equating "least competitive" with "worst" and also doing so based upon statistics that are dubious at best and awful at worst. Obviously it was not a competitive schedule and was not designed to be so, but that does not mean it was one of the worst ever- far from it. Show me a team with an awful OOC record, and I will show you a team whose OOC schedule, for all practical purposes, likely was worse than ours last year. I want to see each Hoya team play the games that are good for that team, and I will always defer to the coach on that. To me, it's pretty clear that MEAC/SWAC are among the worst conferences, and we played way more of those teams than anybody else in the country (except members of those conferences). So you don't even need statistics. Even in the JT Jr. days when we did play St. Leo's it was pretty widely recognized those schedules were awful, and we didn't have the stats or models back then. But I get what you are saying - that given the nature of our team, it was a "good" schedule. I still strongly disagree with for reasons I've often stated and won't repeat here, so we can agree to disagree. The schedule for 2018-2019 looks a lot better so far, so hopefully this won't be an issue. I think even the coaching staff recognizes that we cannot repeat last year's type of schedule.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 25, 2018 10:25:51 GMT -5
And the problem with people pushing the "worst schedule" agenda is that they are injecting their values into the conversation and treating them as if they are fact for everyone else. "Worst" implies that it was bad, unenjoyable, etc to an unmatched degree. I watched nearly every game last year and attended all of the non-conference games in person and I had a perfectly good time doing so. For me the schedule was not the "worst". Now if you were to say it was the "easiest" non-conference schedule then I'd be forced to agree. Fair enough - it was the easiest schedule in the last 15 years, and to me, that makes it the worst schedule in the last 15 years. For me, watching games against completely noncompetitive opponents simply isn't as enjoyable or as fun as watching them play against better teams. The fact that the team seemed poorly engaged at times, and the Big East season was relatively rocky until the end also undermines arguments that we needed it to prepare for the Big East. I also don't like a schedule that pretty much guarantees we cannot compete for the NCAA tournament before the first game is played - I realize that was a long shot last year, but I think the option should always be there. You never know when a player could take a big leap, the whole team could unexpectedly improve, etc. (and despite our 5-13 record, if a few of the close ones had bounced our way, we would've been closer to that than our record suggests). But, I get others might view whether the schedule was "good" or "bad" as something beyond the quality of the competition.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 25, 2018 10:45:07 GMT -5
It also is, to some extent, very random. Richmond, on the road, looked like a good game when it was scheduled, for instance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 11:03:02 GMT -5
UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHH.......
The schedule sucked. But we ALREADY know that next year's schedule will be better, since we're apparently replacing a few MEAC/SWAC games with Illinois and a tournament and have the return Richmond and Syracuse games.
Let's be happy with those positive data points for now and enjoy the summer. If some of these things fall through and the schedule falls apart and ends up being garbage, we can bitch about it in September when it's published.
Deal?
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 25, 2018 11:14:39 GMT -5
And the problem with people pushing the "worst schedule" agenda is that they are injecting their values into the conversation and treating them as if they are fact for everyone else. "Worst" implies that it was bad, unenjoyable, etc to an unmatched degree. I watched nearly every game last year and attended all of the non-conference games in person and I had a perfectly good time doing so. For me the schedule was not the "worst". Now if you were to say it was the "easiest" non-conference schedule then I'd be forced to agree. Fair enough - it was the easiest schedule in the last 15 years, and to me, that makes it the worst schedule in the last 15 years. For me, watching games against completely noncompetitive opponents simply isn't as enjoyable or as fun as watching them play against better teams. The fact that the team seemed poorly engaged at times, and the Big East season was relatively rocky until the end also undermines arguments that we needed it to prepare for the Big East. I also don't like a schedule that pretty much guarantees we cannot compete for the NCAA tournament before the first game is played - I realize that was a long shot last year, but I think the option should always be there. You never know when a player could take a big leap, the whole team could unexpectedly improve, etc. (and despite our 5-13 record, if a few of the close ones had bounced our way, we would've been closer to that than our record suggests). But, I get others might view whether the schedule was "good" or "bad" as something beyond the quality of the competition. You’re really never going to stop posting about this, are you? If you’re worried that any poster here isn’t aware of how you feel about LAST YEAR’s schedule, put your worry aside. For the love of all things Hoya, please move on.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 25, 2018 12:03:19 GMT -5
Scheduling myopia is not unique to basketball.
Men's lacrosse, a once dominant sport on the Hilltop which has not made the NCAA's in 11 years, had a legitimate opportunity to contend for an NCAA berth in 2018. The staff filled its non-conference fare with teams like High Point, Mount St. Mary's, Drexel, Marist, and NJIT, the latter two in the bottom 10 of the RPI nationally.
As a result, Georgetown sits at #22 in the RPI for a 16 team tournament that they will likely have to sweep the Big East for an invite. Forget playing Duke or Hopkins, any combination of Rutgers, Bucknell, or Navy instead of High Point, Marist, and NJIT puts them in the at-large conversation.
Let's not make that mistake for basketball.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 25, 2018 13:08:02 GMT -5
Fair enough - it was the easiest schedule in the last 15 years, and to me, that makes it the worst schedule in the last 15 years. For me, watching games against completely noncompetitive opponents simply isn't as enjoyable or as fun as watching them play against better teams. The fact that the team seemed poorly engaged at times, and the Big East season was relatively rocky until the end also undermines arguments that we needed it to prepare for the Big East. I also don't like a schedule that pretty much guarantees we cannot compete for the NCAA tournament before the first game is played - I realize that was a long shot last year, but I think the option should always be there. You never know when a player could take a big leap, the whole team could unexpectedly improve, etc. (and despite our 5-13 record, if a few of the close ones had bounced our way, we would've been closer to that than our record suggests). But, I get others might view whether the schedule was "good" or "bad" as something beyond the quality of the competition. You’re really never going to stop posting about this, are you? If you’re worried that any poster here isn’t aware of how you feel about LAST YEAR’s schedule, put your worry aside. For the love of all things Hoya, please move on. I didn't start the conversation, and only wrote in response to what someone else said. I didn't initially bring it up. And I've stated that it seems likely that 2018-2019 will be much better. If you don't like what I am writing, feel free to ignore it, but you seem incapable and instead have to make your feelings known how much you dislike my posts, repeatedly. So much so that after I wrote the post above this morning, I specifically thought to myself that you'd likely respond with something similar to this, and sure enough, you did.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 26, 2018 11:11:13 GMT -5
You’re really never going to stop posting about this, are you? If you’re worried that any poster here isn’t aware of how you feel about LAST YEAR’s schedule, put your worry aside. For the love of all things Hoya, please move on. I didn't start the conversation, and only wrote in response to what someone else said. I didn't initially bring it up. And I've stated that it seems likely that 2018-2019 will be much better. If you don't like what I am writing, feel free to ignore it, but you seem incapable and instead have to make your feelings known how much you dislike my posts, repeatedly. So much so that after I wrote the post above this morning, I specifically thought to myself that you'd likely respond with something similar to this, and sure enough, you did. Did Glide come back ?
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Apr 26, 2018 11:19:53 GMT -5
I'm not going to wade into the tired schedule conversation, other than to say that I really, really despise the "I'm a better fan than you because I want to watch the Hoyas and don't care who they're playing" posts.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 26, 2018 13:46:22 GMT -5
I view this argument as I would the argument of how to teach a person to swim. Gradually introduce him to water (with a life jacket), teach some basics about breathing, learn a basic stroke, and then get started in a small wading pool. OR just throw him overboard and see if he works it out for himself. We basically were a novice this year. PE had to first evaluate if he had any swimmers coming back, see if any of the newbies could swim or at least tread water, and have one month to get them ready for the rapids that are the BE. The fact that he managed to get them through the BE season without anyone diving, i.e. embarrassing themselves (Nova and Creighton game excepted) shows his plan worked. Now he is ready for the big kids pool and I'm sure the schedule will reflect this.
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Post by reformation on Apr 27, 2018 11:31:28 GMT -5
Scheduling myopia is not unique to basketball. Men's lacrosse, a once dominant sport on the Hilltop which has not made the NCAA's in 11 years, had a legitimate opportunity to contend for an NCAA berth in 2018. The staff filled its non-conference fare with teams like High Point, Mount St. Mary's, Drexel, Marist, and NJIT, the latter two in the bottom 10 of the RPI nationally. As a result, Georgetown sits at #22 in the RPI for a 16 team tournament that they will likely have to sweep the Big East for an invite. Forget playing Duke or Hopkins, any combination of Rutgers, Bucknell, or Navy instead of High Point, Marist, and NJIT puts them in the at-large conversation. Let's not make that mistake for basketball. Presumably the basketball schedule is an aberration given the start up phase of Ewings tenure. Lax schedule both Men's and women's to a lesser but still noticeable extent has been getting worse every year tracking both teams relative declines over the past decade. Both men's and women's lax are a bit better this year maybe due to easier schedule but both probably also have to win the BE tournament to make the NCAA tourney. With regard to Ewing, I think its fair to cut him some slack as he tries to resurrect the program. For Lax its kind of the opposite, as it seems the admin is complicit with the coaches in trying to mask the relatively declines of the squads by having much less interesting and easier schedules than we have had historically. Given the changes in the BE, the conf schedule for lax is not as interesting as it used to be, so I'm sure the coaches and admin would point to that ignoring that both squads don't play Duke, e.g., anymore in non conf. Our Ivy or ACC Lax competitors have tough conferences so they can't hide poor perf as we can.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 27, 2018 13:06:21 GMT -5
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 27, 2018 16:19:04 GMT -5
I can't wait for the details about the Jamaica tournament, I've wanted to go to a few and really disappointed I had missed Maui but I think that this is the year I'm committing. Should be a good time and it's hard to turn down an opportunity to see the Hoyas.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 27, 2018 17:37:53 GMT -5
MacClung in Jamaica? Ya mon!
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Post by BeantownHoya on May 9, 2018 15:29:21 GMT -5
Anything more about the Jamaica tournament?
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on May 9, 2018 16:27:29 GMT -5
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lucky
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Post by lucky on May 9, 2018 22:11:03 GMT -5
I sent an email to the organizers last week digging for info, they did not reply, but they did read it.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 11, 2018 16:38:33 GMT -5
You are equating "least competitive" with "worst" and also doing so based upon statistics that are dubious at best and awful at worst. Obviously it was not a competitive schedule and was not designed to be so, but that does not mean it was one of the worst ever- far from it. Show me a team with an awful OOC record, and I will show you a team whose OOC schedule, for all practical purposes, likely was worse than ours last year. I want to see each Hoya team play the games that are good for that team, and I will always defer to the coach on that. Can someone explain to me why ranking Non-Conf AdjEM would be "dubious at best and awful at worst"? The stats saying our 2017-2018 was historically bad weren't cherrypicked. They were direct from Pomeroy. Georgetown finished 351 / 351 in NCSOS AdjEM this year with a -17.81. 2005/2006 Baylor were the only worse teams in Pomeroy's dataset which goes back to 2002, and that was due to the Patrick Dennehy murder.
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Post by stafford72 on May 11, 2018 17:21:28 GMT -5
Haven’t we beaten this dead horse enough? I want to hear about the upcoming schedule.
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