SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 8, 2018 13:21:09 GMT -5
The strawman here is epic. Can you please link to the post where someone posted that Akinjo should go back to California or even one that suggests that he is not our best PG option? In fact, the vast majority of criticism was tempered with "I'm sure he will be fine". The "it's the first game" and "he's coming off an injury" are all valid. But let's not pretend that people were like "Akinjo SUCKS." It was simply more like "I had talked myself into him being an instant star because that might be required to make the NCAA Tourney, but this game reminded me he's a freshman." SF is 100% correct. I apologized for personally building him up this summer against the recs of many clearly wiser heads. Was I disappointed in what I saw in Game 1 from JA? Utterly. But I set myself up for that by expecting him to be our best frosh point since AI. Do I still think he’s our best option at PG and a useful player in the long term rebuild? Absolutely. He’s a building block. I was hoping for a shooting star. I would even argue that he still can be a star and a freshman star. It's just one game, and people are right to point out that his injury -- and the practice he missed -- are relevant. But like you, I was expecting (wrongfully, probably) a little more electricity. As I've said before, the turnovers actually don't bother me. I would have been fine with more if I had seen more use of the pick and roll, more attacking, more crazy passes attempted in the half court. I think was surprised me the most was simply the overall lack of aggression and direction. I initially read that as a lack of PG instinct. It could just be unfamiliarity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 13:24:52 GMT -5
Think you have to let guys get comfortable before you can get a good read on what they can and can't do. What you saw more than anything is the difference between HS and College. Things guys can get away with in HS, they can't get away with in college. It takes time to learn what you can/can't do and build off that base. Akinjo's game is predicated on skill, and he has all the skills to adjust to better his outcomes. One thing that he definitely did was over dribble. That lead to probably 2, maybe 3 of his 4 turnovers. He needs to trust his teammates more and pick his spots better. It might take a couple of games, but I don't think he'll have a problem making that adjustment. If he shot what he shot and had only 2 to's, even with a couple defensive lapses, we all would probably think it's a reasonably strong debut. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markel-starks-1/gamelog/2013
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 8, 2018 13:56:51 GMT -5
Well said.
If our biggest worrry as a team is James Akinjo, I like our prospects.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 8, 2018 17:46:43 GMT -5
Think you have to let guys get comfortable before you can get a good read on what they can and can't do. What you saw more than anything is the difference between HS and College. Things guys can get away with in HS, they can't get away with in college. It takes time to learn what you can/can't do and build off that base. Akinjo's game is predicated on skill, and he has all the skills to adjust to better his outcomes. One thing that he definitely did was over dribble. That lead to probably 2, maybe 3 of his 4 turnovers. He needs to trust his teammates more and pick his spots better. It might take a couple of games, but I don't think he'll have a problem making that adjustment. If he shot what he shot and had only 2 to's, even with a couple defensive lapses, we all would probably think it's a reasonably strong debut. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markel-starks-1/gamelog/2013Somewhat ironic that you compare him to Starks (which I like as a comparison) but linked to DSR’s debut - which was stellar. I’m hoping what we saw was a result of the ankle, because he looked exponentially slower and less aggressive than he did in games in which I saw him last season. And I’m not buying that the UMES guard who blew by him to the rim three times is better than most of the all-star kids he was d-ing up last summer in showcase games. And I don’t care about any of the stats - good or bad. I was disappointed because I didn’t see the spark on either end he showed all last season. Once again, think he’ll be fine, but we really needed him to be special. Didn’t see that at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 18:27:34 GMT -5
Think you have to let guys get comfortable before you can get a good read on what they can and can't do. What you saw more than anything is the difference between HS and College. Things guys can get away with in HS, they can't get away with in college. It takes time to learn what you can/can't do and build off that base. Akinjo's game is predicated on skill, and he has all the skills to adjust to better his outcomes. One thing that he definitely did was over dribble. That lead to probably 2, maybe 3 of his 4 turnovers. He needs to trust his teammates more and pick his spots better. It might take a couple of games, but I don't think he'll have a problem making that adjustment. If he shot what he shot and had only 2 to's, even with a couple defensive lapses, we all would probably think it's a reasonably strong debut. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markel-starks-1/gamelog/2013Somewhat ironic that you compare him to Starks (which I like as a comparison) but linked to DSR’s debut - which was stellar. I’m hoping what we saw was a result of the ankle, because he looked exponentially slower and less aggressive than he did in games in which I saw him last season. And I’m not buying that the UMES guard who blew by him to the rim three times is better than most of the all-star kids he was d-ing up last summer in showcase games. And I don’t care about any of the stats - good or bad. I was disappointed because I didn’t see the spark on either end he showed all last season. Once again, think he’ll be fine, but we really needed him to be special. Didn’t see that at all. His debut was great if you don't care about defense. If you look at the game thread I think you will find many people who watch the game closely complaining about his performance on that end. You mention a couple defensive lapses but he also had some really good plays on that end that you guys either didn't notice or are failing to mention. Those moments didn't exist for DSR in his debut and It's not Akinjo's job to score in the way DSR did. I compare him to Starks because they play the same position, pg. It's also a much more difficult job to run a team than to spot up and shoot open jumpers your teammates create for you. He's not special is a weird thing to imply. Was Starks a special player? How was his Freshman year? Calm down guys, it's game 1.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 8, 2018 18:59:08 GMT -5
It's def true that DSR had the luxury of being an offense-only guy on a team that already had a solid PG in Starks and a dominant threat in OP. Really think that team might have made a real run if Whittington hadn't lost his mind. I think Starks could be a very accurate comparison for Akinjo. And Starks was a very solid college player.
I'm not giving up on Akinjo at all. I think he'll be nice player. I'm just recalibrating. I really did think he was Kenny Brunner and not Starks. It works both ways. I thought LeBlanc looked exponentially better than expected. Super quick-twitch guy with great hands. Wouldn't be surprised if he leads the team in minutes this season, because Jess does foul at a pretty good clip, and the rest of the group really struggles to rebound. My guess is Mourning loses a huge chunk of his minutes to LeBlanc when Kaleb returns.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 8, 2018 19:02:50 GMT -5
You don’t want to do too much your first game and recovering from an injury. We can’t afford for Akinjo to be out for any stretch. He and Mac will be fantastic- we just have to give it time. I liked everything I saw from them, but the few forced passes. They just need to feel out what they can get away with at this level. I’m more worried that the upperclassmen haven’t improved.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 8, 2018 20:30:11 GMT -5
Hey so I have a quick question, since some of you are ready to run Akinjo back to Cali since in your eyes he is not good enough to play for the Hoyas. Who is coming in to run the point this year to please you, while Akinjo sits at the end of the bench? clearly you have a better option. Or better yet what recruit do we have coming in next year to run the point? Because I cant believe some of the stuff that is being written about a freshman player who had his first game, this board sometimes amazes me with the EDITED people write. Wow first game Akinjo didnt score 55 and dished out 23 assist without any TOs amazing. People need to back up, and we all have to know that the players read this board before any other, it is the first board anyone goes to for Hoya basketball even before the Casual Hoya joint came to be. Some of this stuff yall are writing is so far out of bounds its crazy. The strawman here is epic. Can you please link to the post where someone posted that Akinjo should go back to California or even one that suggests that he is not our best PG option? In fact, the vast majority of criticism was tempered with "I'm sure he will be fine". The "it's the first game" and "he's coming off an injury" are all valid. But let's not pretend that people were like "Akinjo SUCKS." It was simply more like "I had talked myself into him being an instant star because that might be required to make the NCAA Tourney, but this game reminded me he's a freshman." Dr. Quigley did say that unless James improves "dramatically" we will still be looking for a Big East PG.
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Nov 8, 2018 20:58:20 GMT -5
The strawman here is epic. Can you please link to the post where someone posted that Akinjo should go back to California or even one that suggests that he is not our best PG option? In fact, the vast majority of criticism was tempered with "I'm sure he will be fine". The "it's the first game" and "he's coming off an injury" are all valid. But let's not pretend that people were like "Akinjo SUCKS." It was simply more like "I had talked myself into him being an instant star because that might be required to make the NCAA Tourney, but this game reminded me he's a freshman." Dr. Quigley did say that unless James improves "dramatically" we will still be looking for a Big East PG. But we all know Dr. Quigley is an idiot. hm
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 8, 2018 21:32:08 GMT -5
Somewhat ironic that you compare him to Starks (which I like as a comparison) but linked to DSR’s debut - which was stellar. I’m hoping what we saw was a result of the ankle, because he looked exponentially slower and less aggressive than he did in games in which I saw him last season. And I’m not buying that the UMES guard who blew by him to the rim three times is better than most of the all-star kids he was d-ing up last summer in showcase games. And I don’t care about any of the stats - good or bad. I was disappointed because I didn’t see the spark on either end he showed all last season. Once again, think he’ll be fine, but we really needed him to be special. Didn’t see that at all. His debut was great if you don't care about defense. If you look at the game thread I think you will find many people who watch the game closely complaining about his performance on that end. You mention a couple defensive lapses but he also had some really good plays on that end that you guys either didn't notice or are failing to mention. Those moments didn't exist for DSR in his debut and It's not Akinjo's job to score in the way DSR did. I compare him to Starks because they play the same position, pg. It's also a much more difficult job to run a team than to spot up and shoot open jumpers your teammates create for you. He's not special is a weird thing to imply. Was Starks a special player? How was his Freshman year? Calm down guys, it's game 1. Maybe some people are worked up, but I'm pretty calm. You make some great points, but I think the disappointment -- and I acknowledge that this is on the disappointed, not Akinjo -- is that if James Akinjo has a freshman year like Markel Starks, this team is pretty bad. Worse than last year. Freshman Starks was not good, but he apprenticed under Wright, and I don't think he was effective until junior year, IIRC. So I think that's where people are -- with the state of the program as it is, a lot of us feel we need players like Akinjo and Mac to be good sooner rather than later. You are right to call everyone out that one game is too early to tell anything ... but if Akinjo were to have a Starks-esque progression, the program is probably not in a good place. It's not fair to put that on James, but there it is. For the record, I still think James' freshman year will be much better than Markel's. But I think the reactions are mostly because we all know so much is riding on him performing.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 8, 2018 21:34:02 GMT -5
The strawman here is epic. Can you please link to the post where someone posted that Akinjo should go back to California or even one that suggests that he is not our best PG option? In fact, the vast majority of criticism was tempered with "I'm sure he will be fine". The "it's the first game" and "he's coming off an injury" are all valid. But let's not pretend that people were like "Akinjo SUCKS." It was simply more like "I had talked myself into him being an instant star because that might be required to make the NCAA Tourney, but this game reminded me he's a freshman." Dr. Quigley did say that unless James improves "dramatically" we will still be looking for a Big East PG. Fair. Count me as not in Dr. Quigley's camp.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 8, 2018 21:41:25 GMT -5
Where do I go for positive comments on our players?
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Post by gojeffgoroyunder7 on Nov 8, 2018 21:43:41 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 8, 2018 21:52:18 GMT -5
Where do I go for positive comments on our players? lichoya.com
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 8, 2018 21:56:20 GMT -5
Dr. Quigley did say that unless James improves "dramatically" we will still be looking for a Big East PG. Fair. Count me as not in Dr. Quigley's camp. There certainly was a good helping of overhype for James (of course neither the first, nor last time Hoya fans - or pretty much any other fan base - will puff up a freshman's expectations). Now we can take a breath and watch Akinjo work and develop into what should be a strong PG.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 8, 2018 22:04:09 GMT -5
Fair. Count me as not in Dr. Quigley's camp. There certainly was a good helping of overhype for James (of course neither the first, nor last time Hoya fans - or pretty much any other fan base ) - will puff up a freshman's expectations. Now we can take a breath and watch Akinjo work and develop into what should be a strong PG. Nothing I posted doubted his long term prospects, so I'm right there. Posting minor criticism shouldn't also be taken as hate.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 8, 2018 22:37:25 GMT -5
There certainly was a good helping of overhype for James (of course neither the first, nor last time Hoya fans - or pretty much any other fan base ) - will puff up a freshman's expectations. Now we can take a breath and watch Akinjo work and develop into what should be a strong PG. Nothing I posted doubted his long term prospects, so I'm right there. Posting minor criticism shouldn't also be taken as hate. Agreed. I think Dr. Q's post set a tone that was then attributed to other posts with more reasoned critical comments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 22:46:17 GMT -5
His debut was great if you don't care about defense. If you look at the game thread I think you will find many people who watch the game closely complaining about his performance on that end. You mention a couple defensive lapses but he also had some really good plays on that end that you guys either didn't notice or are failing to mention. Those moments didn't exist for DSR in his debut and It's not Akinjo's job to score in the way DSR did. I compare him to Starks because they play the same position, pg. It's also a much more difficult job to run a team than to spot up and shoot open jumpers your teammates create for you. He's not special is a weird thing to imply. Was Starks a special player? How was his Freshman year? Calm down guys, it's game 1. Maybe some people are worked up, but I'm pretty calm. You make some great points, but I think the disappointment -- and I acknowledge that this is on the disappointed, not Akinjo -- is that if James Akinjo has a freshman year like Markel Starks, this team is pretty bad. Worse than last year. Freshman Starks was not good, but he apprenticed under Wright, and I don't think he was effective until junior year, IIRC. So I think that's where people are -- with the state of the program as it is, a lot of us feel we need players like Akinjo and Mac to be good sooner rather than later. You are right to call everyone out that one game is too early to tell anything ... but if Akinjo were to have a Starks-esque progression, the program is probably not in a good place. It's not fair to put that on James, but there it is. For the record, I still think James' freshman year will be much better than Markel's. But I think the reactions are mostly because we all know so much is riding on him performing. I compared him to Junior year Markel because that where I have him. Somewhere between sophomore and junior Markel. I don’t agree that our chances, that are slim to begin with, are depending on him. We need to see some of the more seasoned players step up and lead us.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 8, 2018 22:54:33 GMT -5
Gotcha. Junior year Markel was very good.
I think we need a lot of things to go right to make the tourney. Akinjo being a strong PG is just one. We probably need four of the following five things to go right: Govan to take a leap, esp. defensively; Pickett to become a more dynamic scorer; Akinjo to be all-BE freshman caliber; same for Mac; same for Josh.
I suppose if something surprising occurs that I don't expect, another one of those things could not occur, but that's kind of how I see it. That said, All-BE Freshman Caliber is not all that difficult to achieve, either.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 8, 2018 23:14:01 GMT -5
Maybe some people are worked up, but I'm pretty calm. You make some great points, but I think the disappointment -- and I acknowledge that this is on the disappointed, not Akinjo -- is that if James Akinjo has a freshman year like Markel Starks, this team is pretty bad. Worse than last year. Freshman Starks was not good, but he apprenticed under Wright, and I don't think he was effective until junior year, IIRC. So I think that's where people are -- with the state of the program as it is, a lot of us feel we need players like Akinjo and Mac to be good sooner rather than later. You are right to call everyone out that one game is too early to tell anything ... but if Akinjo were to have a Starks-esque progression, the program is probably not in a good place. It's not fair to put that on James, but there it is. For the record, I still think James' freshman year will be much better than Markel's. But I think the reactions are mostly because we all know so much is riding on him performing. Due to last year's roster, Pickett and Blair had the opportunity to play a lot of minutes and earn All-BE Frosh honors. Kudos to them. This year, and again because of the roster, Mac, Akinjo and LeBlanc will have the same opportunity. Will they take advantage of it?
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