|
Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Apr 10, 2018 8:45:59 GMT -5
Best of luck to Marcus on his journey. I will be rooting for him, even though I'm disappointed as a fan that he's leaving (he's a good college player) and believe he's making a mistake for his future. He's exactly the type of player with limited NBA and big time professional prospects that should stay and earn a 4 year degree (the deflated basketball lesson). Next man up.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
|
Post by NCHoya on Apr 10, 2018 9:40:15 GMT -5
In the latest NBA Draft projected draft, updated yesterday, Marcus is not even listed as a second round pick. This is what surprises me so much about him leaving now. I realize these mock drafts are often wrong, but if he is not listed in the second round, I have to believe he has no chance of sneaking into the first round. If he was projected by some to be a second round pick and he felt he could wow scouts during workout and find a way into the bottom of the first round then I would understand. The only positive I saw in that mock draft was that Yurtseven was not listed as even a second round pick at this point either. If he is not going to get drafted,and the rumors are accurate, then he may be Marcus's replacement next year. It is really not about the NBA anymore. It is about getting paid to play basketball. Whether they wants to admit it publically or not, I think players like MD know they are not getting to the NBA, but they want to lose the school commitments and make basketball their full-time job and finally get paid to play. After reading the below story that was posted in another thread a few weeks back, playing in Europe can make a lot of sense. theundefeated.com/features/nba-overseas-players-earl-clark-jajuan-johnson-anthony-randolph-and-henry-sims-embrace-playing-abroad/
|
|
s4hoyas
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
|
Post by s4hoyas on Apr 10, 2018 9:58:37 GMT -5
This is very disappointing news to me as well...love MD, and think he got pushed for his own good last year and responded with clear improvement and an uptick in his overall game...he seemed to be hampered by lower leg injuries previously and as the season wore on, but I felt with a strong strength/conditioning program offseason (and he was known to have a strong work ethic), he could be ready for a breakout senior season...with that, I think he could have become draftable (as well as completing his degree)...I hope this isn't a result of a knee jerk decision or bad/premature advice from others...if there's an immediate economic need that's understandable, but I think PE and other informed basketball people would have advised against this...maybe he'll reconsider and not hire an agent...in any case, I wish him the best and thank him for his contributions to Georgetown Basketball...
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 10, 2018 10:22:48 GMT -5
I think that's right. Whether it's a wise decision really depends. The major difference with Henry Sims, of course, is that he played on an NBA roster (something Derrickson is very unlikely to ever do given his size and limitations on defense), and he was a four year player. There was no downside at all for someone like Sims. The downside for someone like Derrickson is that they don't get their degree AND they likely aren't going to get paid a lot of money overseas either. I fully realize that even $100,000 probably looks amazing to somebody like Derrickson who is about 20 years old and in college, but in the bigger scheme of things, I am not sure that extra year of earning potential is actually worth it, particularly when somebody like Derrickson will almost certainly need employment outside of basketball at a decently young age (at least as a player). While the short-term calculation certainly favors playing professionally in many ways (since you're comparing 0 earnings to whatever they get overseas, and you theoretically get an "extra" year of earning by leaving), and I get why players do that, I am not so sure that even in monetary terms that it's a better move to forego the degree. How long do even good players play overseas? Maybe 10 years? Maybe 15 if you're really lucky and/or really good. So you'll have a situation where guys like Derrickson are 30-35 years old, have made some money overseas, and then likely return to the United States and have to get a job outside of playing basketball. There are a lot more "earning" years beyond 30-35 than before. Of course, none of the above applies to somebody who is a first draft NBA pick. Someone like Otto Porter was absolutely right to leave because his decision to leave after sophomore year gave him 2 extra years of earning millions - that's life changing type of money. While earning a low six figure salary overseas may be life-changing in the immediate term, it's unlikely to be something that can carry a player forward throughout their life without other worries.
|
|
SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,323
|
Post by SDHoya on Apr 10, 2018 10:58:32 GMT -5
I think that's right. Whether it's a wise decision really depends. The major difference with Henry Sims, of course, is that he played on an NBA roster (something Derrickson is very unlikely to ever do given his size and limitations on defense), and he was a four year player. There was no downside at all for someone like Sims. The downside for someone like Derrickson is that they don't get their degree AND they likely aren't going to get paid a lot of money overseas either. I fully realize that even $100,000 probably looks amazing to somebody like Derrickson who is about 20 years old and in college, but in the bigger scheme of things, I am not sure that extra year of earning potential is actually worth it, particularly when somebody like Derrickson will almost certainly need employment outside of basketball at a decently young age (at least as a player). While the short-term calculation certainly favors playing professionally in many ways (since you're comparing 0 earnings to whatever they get overseas, and you theoretically get an "extra" year of earning by leaving), and I get why players do that, I am not so sure that even in monetary terms that it's a better move to forego the degree. How long do even good players play overseas? Maybe 10 years? Maybe 15 if you're really lucky and/or really good. So you'll have a situation where guys like Derrickson are 30-35 years old, have made some money overseas, and then likely return to the United States and have to get a job outside of playing basketball. There are a lot more "earning" years beyond 30-35 than before. Of course, none of the above applies to somebody who is a first draft NBA pick. Someone like Otto Porter was absolutely right to leave because his decision to leave after sophomore year gave him 2 extra years of earning millions - that's life changing type of money. While earning a low six figure salary overseas may be life-changing in the immediate term, it's unlikely to be something that can carry a player forward throughout their life without other worries. The assumption you make in your analysis is that for early entrants unlikely to be drafted, its a choice between short term financial gain (via playing overseas) versus the long term outlook (bachelors degree). However, I'm not sure that assumption is correct, and I see no reason why these things need to be mutually exclusive. I'd say there is at least a decent chance that Derrickson has some kind committment from Georgetown to permit him to finish his degree in the future should he so choose--and even if not, I'd imagine he'd be able to find some other institution which would allow him to transfer the credits and finish the degree. You are correct, however, that his basketball expiration date is likely around 30--but there is no such expiration date for him to get a degree or find some other kind of professional certification. Thus, from a financial perspective, if the degree could be finished at any time, but he has only a limited number of years during which he could be a professional athlete, if Derrickson feels that his basketball marketability would not rise significantly remaining (and forgoing pay for another year) at Georgetown, then he should turn professional now to maximize his earning potential.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 11:38:00 GMT -5
|
|
kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,137
|
Post by kettlehill on Apr 10, 2018 11:54:17 GMT -5
I think that there may be a looming problem for all these athletes who declare without a chance of an NBA future. At some point the overseas markets are going to become saturated with these players and these leagues/teams will put further restrictions on American players. Also the rest of the planet is fast catching up with the USA in talent. At some point these very good college players who are undrafted might not find a home overseas......with that nice paycheck.
|
|
saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,890
|
Post by saxagael on Apr 10, 2018 12:06:04 GMT -5
I think that there may be a looming problem for all these athletes who declare without a chance of an NBA future. At some point the overseas markets are going to become saturated with these players and these leagues/teams will put further restrictions on American players. Also the rest of the planet is fast catching up with the USA in talent. At some point these very good college players who are undrafted might not find a home overseas......with that nice paycheck. Many leagues have limits on foreign players. But, many players from D1 and D2 end up continuing playing overseas somewhere for years after leaving school (early leave or at the end of eligibility). Pay is often not great (often better than G League though), but most often housing is also covered for players. It is much like minor league baseball with pay and conditions. There are some international leagues that do have slots that pay rather well, but that is one or two European / Middle East Leagues, the top Australian League (each team has one or two top paying international spots that the teams can use), and the top Chinese League (limited spots on each team). Most former Hoyas seem to have played abroad (if didn't go NBA or G League route), Jason Clark, Bradly Hayes, Jesse Sapp, Jabril Trawick, Henry Simms, and many more are currently playing abroad.
|
|
|
Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Apr 10, 2018 12:26:40 GMT -5
Those with degrees can become teachers and coaches at educational institutions and stay close to the game. I don't think that's an option for those without degrees (although the AAU circuit would be available, I'd assume). Also, if a player leaves early, is Georgetown (or any other school) in the habit of allowing him to complete his degree for free or at a reduced cost if he returns to his studies without eligibility? I'm not sure I see why that should be so if that is the case. Of course, if someone qualifies for financial aid at a school like Georgetown, which meets full financial need, that shouldn't be an issue.
|
|
DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
Posts: 1,209
|
Post by DudeSlade on Apr 10, 2018 12:35:00 GMT -5
Are we underestimating MD's chance to make the NBA at some point? I acknowledge he won't get drafted and it's unlikely he makes it, but we may still be underestimating his chances. There are 3 things I see working for him:
1) Elite shooter: Argue this however you want, but the numbers don't lie. 46% on 3s and 3rd best in the country from NBA range. That's elite. 2) 6'7" with a 7'1" wingspan, 250 lbs: He's a bit short, but that wingspan is very much NBA level and makes up for the height. He has a Draymond Green type build. Admittedly he does not have Green's lateral quickness, handles, or vision, but the body type is not atypical for the NBA nowadays. He has the strength and length to guard 4s down low. If he can get smarter in how to compensate for lack of speed/quickness on the perimeter, could he be passable on defense? With his shooting, could that be enough to make the end of someone's bench? 3) Improvement rate: From his conditioning to his shooting to his rebounding to his low-post game, MD has dramatically improved many facets of his game since he arrived on campus. If he keeps that up, in a couple years, could he seize an opportunity to be an end of bench shooter for some team with a hot summer league or preseason performance?
If you are an elite athlete or have 1 elite skill, they say you have a shot at the NBA. MD is the type of shooter at his size that should entice someone to give him a summer league shot at some point. He seems like the type of guy that Popovich would find a handful of minutes to try to bury some 3s (ala Matt Bonner) off the bench.
Am I giving him too much credit?
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,408
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Apr 10, 2018 12:46:30 GMT -5
We can't get a break. Good luck to Marcuz, but geez...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2018 13:30:40 GMT -5
|
|
95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,298
|
Post by 95hoya on Apr 10, 2018 13:31:28 GMT -5
He can't defend NBA 4s.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,374
|
Post by drquigley on Apr 10, 2018 13:40:42 GMT -5
Funny how no one worries about the kid who forgoes college to play minor league baseball. Chances aren't that much better making the pros and minor league pay is abysmal. This shows how corrupt the college bball - NBA nexus is. Look, the kid wants to play basketball for a living not get a GU degree (at least not right away). The fact that he spent 3 years at GU is probably less due to the wonders of academia and the beauty of the Hilltop than the thought of playing in the NBA. Hey, when we were 21, getting a chance to make over $100,000 a year plus travel the world doing what you really enjoy with the possibility of returning to college someday to get a degree and maybe coach at some level would sound pretty good. Face it, college and the white collar career that follows isn't everyones idea of how they want to live.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 10, 2018 14:58:16 GMT -5
Funny how no one worries about the kid who forgoes college to play minor league baseball. Chances aren't that much better making the pros and minor league pay is abysmal. I think plenty of minor league baseball players have family members, girlfriends, spouses, friends, etc. who worry about their well being and ability to land on their feet when they finish their baseball journey. I bet there are a lot of parents out there who would rather their sons go to college than pursue minor league baseball. The main difference with college basketball players is that minor league baseball players have virtually no fanbase, whereas college basketball players get a certain amount of notoriety simply by being on a college team that has fans. I highly doubt that there are message boards, with a following as large as HoyaTalk, that debate single A baseball in Cedar Rapids or Lansing. Of course, one reason baseball is not analogous is that it is extremely rare for an aspiring baseball player in the age range of these players (18-20) to be good enough to play in the major leagues. Virtually all players aspiring to get to the major leagues have to play minor league baseball and develop in the minor league system - it's just what the large majority of players do, whereas top basketball talent immediately leaps to the professional ranks. Thus, it's sort of expected that if you want to play in MLB, that you will play in the minors. In basketball, if you're a top player, you'll make a stop in college for a year, maximum, and that's because of the NBA's rules.
|
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,351
|
Post by calhoya on Apr 10, 2018 15:08:03 GMT -5
There are options for professional ball outside of the NBA, Europe and the Middle East. Kids here in SoCal have been able to find work in the Mexican professional league making between $4,00-$5,000 month. I know it pales in comparison to the NBA but they are doing much better than the G league due in part to the cost of living. Also know of at least two playing in New Zealand and making a comfortable living. The main thing is that if MD wants to play basketball, and is not yet focused on getting his college degree, then he may be doing what is best for him (though clearly not what is best for the program).
|
|
757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,999
|
Post by 757hoyafan on Apr 10, 2018 15:54:47 GMT -5
Sorry to see such an integral part of our team leave. Always a joy to see cynical adults slam a young man for a decision that affects his life and not theirs. Thank you! Good luck big fella!
|
|
saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,890
|
Post by saxagael on Apr 10, 2018 18:00:44 GMT -5
There are options for professional ball outside of the NBA, Europe and the Middle East. Kids here in SoCal have been able to find work in the Mexican professional league making between $4,00-$5,000 month. I know it pales in comparison to the NBA but they are doing much better than the G league due in part to the cost of living. Also know of at least two playing in New Zealand and making a comfortable living. The main thing is that if MD wants to play basketball, and is not yet focused on getting his college degree, then he may be doing what is best for him (though clearly not what is best for the program). There are a lot of opportunities internationally, but there are also pro-am leagues around the US with 2,000 to 4,000 pay, which is more than G-league. But, I also think of Hoya former point guard Kevin Braswell who played in Europe, Philippines (crazy basketball fanatics there), and New Zealand. I don't remember which but he had a massive fan base and was a team and league favorite. If I remember right he was doing okay on the money front from the team and with sponsorships. Also Jon Wallace, Hoya point guard, then played in Europe until a couple years ago when he returned to work with the Hoya team and is now an assistant coach. When he came back he was going to GU Law (he had deferred on that after graduation to go play in Europe), but not sure he is still doing that. One of the things that has impressed me is how many Hoya players that leave early finish their degree from Georgetown over time. That is seriously impressive to me. The bond is not only there for basketball, but for the degree.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,730
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 10, 2018 18:44:39 GMT -5
One of the things that has impressed me is how many Hoya players that leave early finish their degree from Georgetown over time. That is seriously impressive to me. The bond is not only there for basketball, but for the degree. Other than Jeff Green, who?
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Apr 10, 2018 18:57:49 GMT -5
I would venture to say that he's leaving right when all the bribery scandals are hitting which likely means the one and done will be gone this year or next. That will open the floodgates for high school players to go pro in the NBA/D league/Overseas. Once that happens it can only lower his draft/free agency status.
|
|